Reviving my Thorens TD-135 Turntable

[arj]

Arj,

It is not electrical. It is mechanical. Various tests confirm that it is mechanical. Also it is not rumble. Rumble frequencies are much lower than 50Hz and I know how rumble sounds.

To answer Joshua's questions, the hum is not picked up until the stylus touches the record. Also the hum is picked up even when the belt is disconnected and the platter is not rotating.

Cheers.

This is interesting, from the above it appears Omishra's points are spot on regrding motor vibrations (which could be so small that you dont feel it physically)
My lenco also has a 220 V AC motor, it is mounted on the top plate (Suspended rather) via springs in order to isolate the platter from vibrations..is it similiar here ?

if it is due to the bearing you will definitely hear it via the Inverted Screwdriver test.

OTOH, are you sure the cart works fine otherwise ?


some nice thorens plinths here..only 3 TD135s so it must be a rare breed

 

[arj]

This is interesting

. Note the piece of foam inside the spring. This was added by the factory to dampen spring oscillations. It is like a crude version of an automotive shock absorber. Customers were having problems with foot fall. In practice, the piece of foam did not offer nearly enough damping to solve the foot fall problem. Even worse, and because the foam is in contact with both the fixed stud and the spring simultaneously, it serves to transmit resonance from the motor plate into the sub-chassis. By removing the foam, isolation is improved. Foot fall vibes will be avoided by providing a suitable location to hold and isolate the turntable from it's environment. More about that later.

more here..i guess you might have seen it

 

[anilva]

Hi Anilva,

That looks like a really well preserved specimen indeed! I guess your Aladdin's cave is still throwing up a few treasures now and then hehe. All the best with the project, am curious to hear your impressions after you build the plinth, given the build up that Rajiv has given it.

Regards

Thanks stevieboy. There are few more surprises in the cave!

No news on your Altecs. How are they coming along? Looking for an update.

Cheers.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

The sponge kept inside those springs were to dampen foot falls. Most of the old English homes had wooden floors and these created havoc those days to TT s placed without proper suspension. Whether it is that important now is questionable.

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,

Anil, this thread on PF might be helpful in sorting out the hum problem.

TD-124 hum - pink fish media

Regards
Rajiv

 

[anilva]

Hi,

Anil, this thread on PF might be helpful in sorting out the hum problem.

TD-124 hum - pink fish media

Regards
Rajiv

Thanks Rajiv. I have seen this thread yesterday and after that I knew that I am not the first guy and that the problem can be solved. Right now I am planning couple of things:

a. Refurbish the motor with new bushings and convert from Mk1 to Mk2 with longer mount studs.

b. Change the mushroom set

c. Make a new plinth

After all this I might have no money left for a new DL-103 I guess....

I liked the plinth you suggested. Seems simpler to make than the multilayer type.

Cheers.

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,

Thanks Rajiv. I have seen this thread yesterday and after that I knew that I am not the first guy and that the problem can be solved. Right now I am planning couple of things:

a. Refurbish the motor with new bushings and convert from Mk1 to Mk2 with longer mount studs.

b. Change the mushroom set

c. Make a new plinth

After all this I might have no money left for a new DL-103 I guess....

I liked the plinth you suggested. Seems simpler to make than the multilayer type.

Anil,I do not think you will need new bushings for the motor. Just a complete strip and lubrication should be enough. I did the same for my TD124.

I bought a TD124 service kit from Joel Boutreux .He is a retired Thorens engineer and used to sell service kits on ebay for Thorens,EMT,Lenco etc. At present he does not seem to be active. You can contact him via email ([email protected]) and ask for the TD135 service kit.He is very helpful and will help trouble shoot your hum problem.His prices are reasonable and less expensive than Schopper.

This is a very good tutorial on how to service the E50 motor.

?g?[?????X THORENS model TD 124

I bought the motor mounting grommets from this seller on ebay,but he does not sell the longer MKII mounting studs. I used the MK I kit and it seems to work fine.

Thorens TD 124 MK II Electric Motor Suspension Grommets NEW Fresh Rubber | eBay

The mushrooms are around 50 euro from Stereolab and slightly more expensive from Schopper. I need to replace the ones on my TD124 but have been putting it off. We could order the mushrooms together and save on shipping.

Have a look at this plinth on Ebay. Similar to the one in the Pink fish link. To my ears this type of plinth sounds better than the multi layer plinth.

Hand Made Solid White OAK Plinth FOR USE With Garrard 301 401 OR Thorens TD124 | eBay

When building the plinth,do not box it in completly by adding a base board. Leave the bottom open and place the plinth on small blocks of wood or any other type of footer that sounds good to you. The E50 gets very hot and this helps reduce heat, also boxing in the motor traps the motor noise within the plinth.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[anilva]

Hi,



Anil,I do not think you will need new bushings for the motor. Just a complete strip and lubrication should be enough. I did the same for my TD124.

I bought a TD124 service kit from Joel Boutreux .He is a retired Thorens engineer and used to sell service kits on ebay for Thorens,EMT,Lenco etc. At present he does not seem to be active. You can contact him via email ([email protected]) and ask for the TD135 service kit.He is very helpful and will help trouble shoot your hum problem.His prices are reasonable and less expensive than Schopper.

This is a very good tutorial on how to service the E50 motor.

?g?[?????X THORENS model TD 124

I bought the motor mounting grommets from this seller on ebay,but he does not sell the longer MKII mounting studs. I used the MK I kit and it seems to work fine.

Thorens TD 124 MK II Electric Motor Suspension Grommets NEW Fresh Rubber | eBay

The mushrooms are around 50 euro from Stereolab and slightly more expensive from Schopper. I need to replace the ones on my TD124 but have been putting it off. We could order the mushrooms together and save on shipping.

Have a look at this plinth on Ebay. Similar to the one in the Pink fish link. To my ears this type of plinth sounds better than the multi layer plinth.

Hand Made Solid White OAK Plinth FOR USE With Garrard 301 401 OR Thorens TD124 | eBay

When building the plinth,do not box it in completly by adding a base board. Leave the bottom open and place the plinth on small blocks of wood or any other type of footer that sounds good to you. The E50 gets very hot and this helps reduce heat, also boxing in the motor traps the motor noise within the plinth.

Regards
Rajiv

Rajiv,

I opened the motor and cleaned up recently. I have not drilled the rivets out and cleaned the bushes though, which I intend to do now. I am not planning to change to bushes, but depends on the condition of the existing bushes. I know that this turntable has been used sparingly and hence confident of the condition of the bushes.

I will buy the motor suspension and the mushroom rubbers. There are many vendors on ebay and pretty expensive for rubber bushings. I think anything to do with a TD-124 is expensive!

I will check out the plinths. If I can use the rosewood from the existing cabinet, yet make something that will offer the rigidity and dissipate the energy will be my preference. I am sometime away from that decision.

Please continue to give your valuable tips and pointers.

Cheers.

 

[jls001]

I think anything to do with a TD-124 is expensive!

:lol:

Don't lose the idler

Does anyone know how to DIY a mylar belt for a TT (cannibalized from an open reel tape)? or may be of cassette tape or VHS tape?

I think the belt on my 124 needs to be replaced. Why do I say this? Well, when I put down antistatic brush on a spinning record to clean the lint and dust, if I press the spinning record harder than usual, the spin slows down drastically. Earlier it used to continue spinning merrily as though nothing had happened.

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,

Does anyone know how to DIY a mylar belt for a TT (cannibalized from an open reel tape)? or may be of cassette tape or VHS tape?

I think the belt on my 124 needs to be replaced. Why do I say this? Well, when I put down antistatic brush on a spinning record to clean the lint and dust, if I press the spinning record harder than usual, the spin slows down drastically. Earlier it used to continue spinning merrily as though nothing had happened.

Lots of information on Thorens belts in this superb thread on restoring the TD124.

Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII - Page 49 - diyAudio

I do not think a mylar belt will be optimal,but no harm in experimenting. Joel sent me a new belt as part of his service kit. It works well but my old belt is still good so I use it.

The belt to get is the one from Schopper,going by the feedback on the various TD124 threads on the net.

There is an Italian made idler for the TD124 that has been making some news.

Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII - Page 71 - diyAudio

Nuova Puleggia Thorens CON O Ring TD 124 TD 135 TD 121 TD 184 TD 224 | eBay

I think anything to do with a TD-124 is expensive!

Unable to understand why this is so. the Garrard parts are a lot less expensive

Regards
Rajiv

 

[jls001]

Nuova Puleggia Thorens CON O Ring TD 124 TD 135 TD 121 TD 184 TD 224 | eBay

Looks very different from the OEM idler wheel. And way, way cheaper than the Schopper idler wheel. Thanks for the pointer.

 

[jls001]

Try the DL103 on the TD135 and you might end up listening to the TD135 more than your other TT's.

The 103 is a very fine cartridge, especially for the price, but I don't know if it is to do with the piece I own, or something to do with my setup - the highs have a grit which I am sensitive to. Of course this is in the context of costlier cartridges.

 

[arj]

The 103 is a very fine cartridge, especially for the price, but I don't know if it is to do with the piece I own, or something to do with my setup - the highs have a grit which I am sensitive to. Of course this is in the context of costlier cartridges.

what is the loading you are using it with..also are you using an SUT ?
I found it to get smoother if you increase the Capacitance in the phono.

 

[omishra]

what is the loading you are using it with..also are you using an SUT ?
I found it to get smoother if you increase the Capacitance in the phono.

Capacitance does not have effect on denon DL-103 and DL-103R. Because it is LOMC. It has low inductance coil which is away from effect of capacitance in audio range. I own later and svaze has 103. Yes SUT gives out more details and without SUT you loose some details. I am using it with denon AU300-LC. It's superb.

 

[arj]

Capacitance does not have effect on denon DL-103 and DL-103R. Because it is LOMC. It has low inductance coil which is away from effect of capacitance in audio range. I own later and svaze has 103. Yes SUT gives out more details and without SUT you loose some details. I am using it with denon AU300-LC. It's superb.

yes you are right for MC..i am using a Bobs devices SUT and a DL103R hence it is an MM loading on the phono, maybe thats why i can see the impact of Capacitance.
On MC i found the loading of much higher than 100Ohms ..more around 600-800 to give the best sound (ie details)

i tried with and without SUT and mostly the SUT gives better Body to the sound...but again sometimes i like the sound direct as MC..

 

[jls001]

what is the loading you are using it with..also are you using an SUT ?
I found it to get smoother if you increase the Capacitance in the phono.

Resisitive loading is exactly 103 Ohms. Recommended loading 100 Ohms.

I'm using the Hypnotoad AD 797 DIY Low Output MC phonostage. No step up. It is an MC phonostage so no capacitive loading.

 

[arj]

Resisitive loading is exactly 103 Ohms. Recommended loading 100 Ohms.

I'm using the Hypnotoad AD 797 DIY Low Output MC phonostage. No step up. It is an MC phonostage so no capacitive loading.

from all i have read, the 103 does best with 100 but the 103R, which has a recommended on of 40, but performs well with much higher loading. thats what i could make out in my setup as well. unfortunately during a surgery in Nuding the 103 i seem to have lost one channel . so only 103R which has a lower output & impedance

These are apparently meant to be used with an SUT as it has a quirky response. do try an SUT if you can at any point to see how it works for you

 

[jls001]

Does anyone know how to DIY a mylar belt for a TT (cannibalized from an open reel tape)? or may be of cassette tape or VHS tape?

I got a discarded LTO tape today. It is half inch wide. I don't know what the material is. Will try fashioning a belt when I have some spare time.