Room correction vs room treatment: Which is better?

[k-pad]

Am sure the answer lies somewhere in between, but with the software available today:
1. What are the advantages of doing only one, and
2. Doing a bit of both?

Have been playing around in my room (not yet measured ) but the more stuff is there, the more peaceful the sound is. I know this is quite the award winning line for the most banal statement ever made, but hear me out...

I briefly put a double recliner in the room and the highs definitely sounded more refined, but the bass was a little less sharper. When I brought back my single recliner back to the room, the highs became brighter and the bass became sharper... (didn't change Audyssey)
for reference, the beefiest part of both recliners - the fat shoulder-neck support part are almost exactly tweeter height.

More specifically, LFL's response to my question about the relevance of the sub crawl got me thinking... (And i do agree that he makes a fair point)

HT in a small 10x12 room at around Rs 3.5L

Four is better than two. Of course. So, this gives me a lot of leeway for front, but not much for rears. The rear atmos I can not do anything beyond 25-30 degree without spoiling my viewing angle. But I can mock a height speaker like the Dali alteco to act like rear atmos.

www.hifivision.com

What is the best way to go about juicing up the best response in a room, especially small ones?

1. Purely rely on correction in a given room?
2. treat the room first and then run correction?
3. Do a mix of both depending on possibilities - do the least space eating panels, and then run correction?
4. Toole says regular furniture is enough if you do bass management -- can this be extended to room correction software?
Regards

 

[Soulsatisfaction]

To me room treatment but there can be many versions. Try to keep electronics simple as much as possible to get purity of music intact.

 

[aeroash]

1. Purely rely on correction in a given room?

It should be the last option. Also, depends on the room correction technology in use. For straight-up solutions like "Audyssey" and the likes, there's not much scope to tweak, and works for most as an instant, decent solution, which is the majority of the consumers.
The fact that one is on this forum equates to looking to take the game further. And this is where the likes of miniDSP, REW and Dirac Live come in.

2. treat the room first and then run correction?

Yes. But to treat a room, you should know what you are treating, or else it can be futile or even make it worse. The best way to discover the problem areas is to use measuring tools, i.e. calibrated mic, REW etc.

3. Do a mix of both depending on possibilities - do the least space eating panels, and then run correction?

Refer to No.2.

4. Toole says regular furniture is enough if you do bass management -- can this be extended to room correction software?
Regards

Trust your ears. There is no "one solution fits all". Some are particular, and some aren't. Have the sound match YOUR taste by targetting specific issues and exploring solutions for those.

It's a long-drawn process. And the one which requires a lot of patience. For every tiny adjustment carried out, give the adjustment at least a couple of days. Listen, see if you like the change, take notes about what you liked and didn't like about the adjustment, note down the settings or the location of the adjustment, and move on to the next adjustment after.
Taking down notes is the physical equivalent of hitting 'Cntrl + Z or Cmd + Z on the keyboard for "undo", in the event you want to revert.

And I don't recall Peter O'Toole talking about "room correction software". But, I can imagine that he came across plenty of furniture whilst engaging in multitude orgies and being in a drunken stupor!

 

[spirovious]

Room treatment is better option as there won't be changes made in music itself and one can enjoy it the way it was intended to sound.

 

[aeroash]

Room treatment is better option as there won't be changes made in music itself and one can enjoy it the way it was intended to sound.

A crude rant.

@k-pad, apologies for digressing.

 

[DB1989]

Am sure the answer lies somewhere in between, but with the software available today:
1. What are the advantages of doing only one, and
2. Doing a bit of both?

Have been playing around in my room (not yet measured ) but the more stuff is there, the more peaceful the sound is. I know this is quite the award winning line for the most banal statement ever made, but hear me out...

I briefly put a double recliner in the room and the highs definitely sounded more refined, but the bass was a little less sharper. When I brought back my single recliner back to the room, the highs became brighter and the bass became sharper... (didn't change Audyssey)
for reference, the beefiest part of both recliners - the fat shoulder-neck support part are almost exactly tweeter height.

More specifically, LFL's response to my question about the relevance of the sub crawl got me thinking... (And i do agree that he makes a fair point)

HT in a small 10x12 room at around Rs 3.5L

Four is better than two. Of course. So, this gives me a lot of leeway for front, but not much for rears. The rear atmos I can not do anything beyond 25-30 degree without spoiling my viewing angle. But I can mock a height speaker like the Dali alteco to act like rear atmos.

www.hifivision.com

What is the best way to go about juicing up the best response in a room, especially small ones?

1. Purely rely on correction in a given room?
2. treat the room first and then run correction?
3. Do a mix of both depending on possibilities - do the least space eating panels, and then run correction?
4. Toole says regular furniture is enough if you do bass management -- can this be extended to room correction software?
Regards

Room correction if you do not want to mess with the decor. Otherwise room treatment. No brainer then that a bit of both if the situation permits.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

What is the best way to go about juicing up the best response in a room, especially small ones?

1. Purely rely on correction in a given room?

Only if you can't treat the room because of aesthetic/space considerations. If your speakers are well-behaved off-axis, with RC s/w, you could (in theory) massage the in-room amplitude response to taste. If you're the type for whom tonal balance is the be-all and end-all of SQ, this may well be enough. AIUI, only Trinnov and Dirac help with issues in the time domain (which is especially important for clarity, detail and the ability to play back at higher levels if the speakers are capable). Nowhere near the best way, though.

2. treat the room first and then run correction?

This is the best approach. Fix as many issues as possible with passive room treatment and RC s/w (or manual EQ) for what's left.

3. Do a mix of both depending on possibilities - do the least space eating panels, and then run correction?

Unfortunately, the most effective panels in a small room (for 300 Hz and below) are likely to be 6 inches thick. Still better than nothing, mind.

4. Toole says regular furniture is enough if you do bass management -- can this be extended to room correction software?

Not just bass management, but also a processor that allows for the optimization of multiple subs and the integration between the mains and subs (automatically or by allowing the use of results from something like MSO). You might be able to get away with it in that case (like Dr. Toole apparently has), but it is the exceedingly rare exception, IMO.

Ultimately though, this is such as a personal choice. Some questions to ponder: How much of the recorded content do you want to be able to hear? How much of the room's coloration of the sound do you want to take out of the equation? How identical in playback do you want to get to recorded levels? (applicable for movies, where reference levels are defined). The closer to 100% your answer is to these questions, the greater the need for (significant) room treatment.

 

[Anurag]

For a 2 channel audio purpose, room treatment is always the better option. Because here the room doesn't require to be too dead, little bit of treatment in the right positions can do the job. I'm not into HT, but if i were, i would start with the right speaker positioning first then room treatment and may be room correction then if at all required

 

[RajithKumar]

Logically for best results ,you may need to do the necessary passive treatment ( by room acoustics ) first and finally do the active correction by the software .
However due to various practical reasons and preferences , everyone could not able to this.

 

[edjamesx]

What ever you do with Room correction software it will help to get the balanced sound but It will not take care of your room acoustics issues like Echo and Noise .
Room treatment helps to reduce Echo and Noise / also helps to do better bass management.

Hence Both is needed to get the maximum results.

 

[Nalzan]

Am sure the answer lies somewhere in between, but with the software available today:
1. What are the advantages of doing only one, and
2. Doing a bit of both?

Have been playing around in my room (not yet measured ) but the more stuff is there, the more peaceful the sound is. I know this is quite the award winning line for the most banal statement ever made, but hear me out...

I briefly put a double recliner in the room and the highs definitely sounded more refined, but the bass was a little less sharper. When I brought back my single recliner back to the room, the highs became brighter and the bass became sharper... (didn't change Audyssey)
for reference, the beefiest part of both recliners - the fat shoulder-neck support part are almost exactly tweeter height.

More specifically, LFL's response to my question about the relevance of the sub crawl got me thinking... (And i do agree that he makes a fair point)

HT in a small 10x12 room at around Rs 3.5L

Four is better than two. Of course. So, this gives me a lot of leeway for front, but not much for rears. The rear atmos I can not do anything beyond 25-30 degree without spoiling my viewing angle. But I can mock a height speaker like the Dali alteco to act like rear atmos.

www.hifivision.com

What is the best way to go about juicing up the best response in a room, especially small ones?

1. Purely rely on correction in a given room?
2. treat the room first and then run correction?
3. Do a mix of both depending on possibilities - do the least space eating panels, and then run correction?
4. Toole says regular furniture is enough if you do bass management -- can this be extended to room correction software?
Regards

I am a huge advocate of room correction (DSP) software. It has completely changed my musical experience for the better. I have used Dirac Live for many years and gave recently switched to Focus Fidelity. It is necessary to implement and create the filters properly to obtain optimum results. It does have a learning curve and I would recommend some reading before you attempt to do it.Mitch Barnett has written an excellent book on this topic.

 

[k-pad]

I am a huge advocate of room correction (DSP) software. It has completely changed my musical experience for the better. I have used Dirac Live for many years and gave recently switched to Focus Fidelity. It is necessary to implement and create the filters properly to obtain optimum results. It does have a learning curve and I would recommend some reading before you attempt to do it.Mitch Barnett has written an excellent book on this topic.

Thank you very much, Nalzan, for the suggestion and book reference.
Will read it.
For the current small room, I'm looking at some treatment and Audyssey in the AVR.
For a later stereo set up in the living room, looks like I will have to heavily rely on DSP, as there will virtually be no scope to do anything else there.
Thanks again.

Edit: Just checking the Focus web page... Is the free Impala software something like REW?

 

[Nalzan]

Thank you very much, Nalzan, for the suggestion and book reference.
Will read it.
For the current small room, I'm looking at some treatment and Audyssey in the AVR.
For a later stereo set up in the living room, looks like I will have to heavily rely on DSP, as there will virtually be no scope to do anything else there.
Thanks again.

Edit: Just checking the Focus web page... Is the free Impala software something like REW?

Yes it is.Impala is intuitive and easy to use but it’s only the measurement software, You have to purchase the filter designer software to create the filters.It runs only on Windows but the convolution filters can be used with Roon or Jriver. It is an excellent software and David who has created it is very helpful in sorting out any issues you may have with it.

 

[jenson]

Does ur system have EQ.. I guess the biggest, harm hi fir audio has done is to take away the tone controls... Based on a similar query that i had, general consensus was its better to have a good eq based system... Room treatment is a complex and expensive art..

 

[ajuvignesh]

Does ur system have EQ.. I guess the biggest, harm hi fir audio has done is to take away the tone controls... Based on a similar query that i had, general consensus was its better to have a good eq based system... Room treatment is a complex and expensive art..

The basic room treatment will not cost a lot of money. But the results it produces will be enormous.

 

[air870]

With no expert help, room correction is simpler than room treatment. In an ideal situation, like posted above, first treatment then correction

 

[Hari Iyer]

The best treatment in my case was no treatment or correction. The problem IME is if you try to absorb, damp or isolate vibration or air resonance the dynamic range of your setup completely collapses. If you are listening sibilance or boom bass then your setup is capable of excellent dynamics. You have to manage the vibration and air resonance in your room by not damping or absorbing them, but by intelligently transferring the vibration to ground. This technique bought me the highest dividends.