Scratched Disks

Venkat Sir,

Thanks for the information provided by you and madbullram and others.

Please clarify

1. Is the laser beam of a player after some years of its use will be as good as it is at the time purchase/put to use when it is new in terms of its direction , sesitivity and intensity ?

2. Is there any ageing to the optical head on its use and if yes will it skip the tracks

3. whether a C.D./ DVD player head weakens in picking up the data after years of its use?

Thanks
 
Venkat Sir,

Thanks for the information provided by you and madbullram and others.

Please clarify

1. Is the laser beam of a player after some years of its use will be as good as it is at the time purchase/put to use when it is new in terms of its direction , sesitivity and intensity ?

2. Is there any ageing to the optical head on its use and if yes will it skip the tracks

3. whether a C.D./ DVD player head weakens in picking up the data after years of its use?

Thanks

Add to that one more question -

Is there likely to be mechanical mis-alignment over the years like in servo-step motor driving the lenshead to cause misreads? I recall 3.5" floppies had many problems with this.

Regards
 
1. Is the laser beam of a player after some years of its use will be as good as it is at the time purchase/put to use when it is new in terms of its direction , sesitivity and intensity ?

One of the main things that happens to a laser mechanism after some use is that the intensity of the laser weakens. When this happens, the read head will find it increasingly harder to differentiate between the 1s and the 0s. A straightforward solution is to replace the lens.

The rest of the read head mechanism is mechanical and there will be wear and tear.

2. Is there any ageing to the optical head on its use and if yes will it skip the tracks

I assume you are referring to the photosensor that reads the data. In a CD player saying 'skipping tracks' is actually incorrect. Let me explain why.

In a CD Player, laser beam is thrown on the media. This is reflected back by the media and the reflection is read by a phototsensor. Depending upon whether it is a land or a pit that reflects the beam, the photosensor will receive a stronger (brighter) or weaker (less brighter) reflection. The brighter reflection is taken as a 1, while the less brighter reflection is taken as a 0.

Contrary to a LP or even a hard disk, the data is not segregated into tracks and sectors. From the beginning to the end, a song is one series of contiguous lands and pits. If a land or a pit is misread, the data is gone, and the head just moves forward. When this misread data is sent to the DAC, it become jitter.

A photosensor that is used in a player is usually supposed to last some 50,000 hours of usage - more than what you will use in a life time. If you use the player for 8 hours EVERY day, 50,000 hours will last for 17 years !

3. whether a C.D./ DVD player head weakens in picking up the data after years of its use?

Already explained.

4. Is there likely to be mechanical mis-alignment over the years like in servo-step motor driving the lenshead to cause misreads? I recall 3.5" floppies had many problems with this.

Yes, there will be. Remember any mechanical part will have wear and tear. Though these parts are made with great care, the precision and movements required are so minuscule that a tiny error could cause trouble. At the same time, this is compensated by error corrections.

As you go up the price ladder, the parts are manufactured with greater precision, and are made to last for a longer time.

Cheers
 
Last edited:
Venkat Sir,
So the day one performance of a laser beam will not be the same after some days , however minute. It would be better to replace the CD/DVD heads after some years.

Regards
 
So the day one performance of a laser beam will not be the same after some days , however minute. It would be better to replace the CD/DVD heads after some years.

This is called nit picking and serves no purpose. Everything in the world, including human beings, have wear and tear. In electronics the wear and tear is a part of design. When designing a player, the designer will take into consideration tolerances and have a bandwidth over which the laser and it's reflection would be acceptable. When these tolerances are crossed, you have failure and the unit needs to be repaired.

As I said before a laser units is designed to last some 50,000 hours. This is also called mean time between failures or MTBF.

Within the specified tolerances the unit will work well whether it is the first day or the 100th day.

Cheers
 
Last edited:
Gobble: I posted the link just to show how these article can sway anyone to think so. I wasn't vouching for it. I also pasted the HFV link but looked like it didnt get saved :)
 
This is called nit picking and serves no purpose. Everything in the world, including human beings, have wear and tear. In electronics the wear and tear is a part of design. When designing a player, the designer will take into consideration tolerances and have a bandwidth over which the laser and it's reflection would be acceptable. When these tolerances are crossed, you have failure and the unit needs to be repaired.

As I said before a laser units is designed to last some 50,000 hours. This is also called mean time between failures or MTBF.

Within the specified tolerances the unit will work well whether it is the first day or the 100th day.

Cheers
Hmmm on that note, I would love a blue and red laser device that nit-picks my hair during my afternoon siesta and also zaps flying mosquitoes around at night ... :)

Fancy that? :eek:hyeah:

Cheers
 
Gobble: I posted the link just to show how these article can sway anyone to think so. I wasn't vouching for it. I also pasted the HFV link but looked like it didnt get saved :)

Hey I was not even weighing your post about your tilt of opinion .. just put a reminder that we've been there before.

Besides i think my jokes and banter were interpreted as a multi-barrel rocket launch attack by a member ... :) Good think he is not the PM of India and does not have a finger on the Nuclear button ... :eek:hyeah:

Cheers
 
cdreadingmechanism.jpg


Look at the image above. The objective lens of a CD pickup has a numerical aperture (NA) of 0.45; thus the outermost rays will be inclined at approximately 27 degrees to the normal. Refraction at the air/disk interface changes this to approximately 17 degrees within the disk. Thus light focused to a spot on the information layer has entered the disk through a 0.7mm diameter circle, giving good resistance to surface contamination.

A fundamental goal of consumer optical disks is that no special working environment or handling skill is required. The bandwidth needed by PCM audio is such that high-density recording is mandatory if reasonable playing time is to be obtained in CD. High-density recording implies short wavelengths. Using a laser focused on the disk from a distance allows short-wavelength recordings to be played back without physical contact, whereas conventional magnetic recording requires intimate contact and implies a wear

The information layer of CD is read through the thickness of the disk. The figure above shows that this approach causes the readout beam to enter and leave the disk surface through the largest possible area. The actual dimensions involved are shown in the figure. Despite the minute spot size of about 1.2micro millimeter diameter, light enters and leaves through a 0.7 mm-diameter circle. As a result, surface debris has to be three orders of magnitude larger than the readout spot before the beam is obscured.

The size of the entry circle is a function of the refractive index of the disk material, the numerical aperture of the objective lens and the thickness of the disk. CDs have no protection, but fortunately the method of readout through the disk thickness tolerates surface scratches very well. In extreme cases of damage, a scratch can often successfully be removed with metal polish. By way of contrast, the label side is actually more vulnerable than the readout side, since the lacquer coating is only 30micro mm thick. For this reason, writing on the label side of CD is not recommended. Pressure from a pen could distort the information layer, and solvents from marker pens have been known to penetrate the lacquer and cause corruption. The common party-piece of writing on the readout surface of CD with a felt pen to show off the error correction system is quite harmless, since the disk base material is impervious to most solvents.

That was the good side. Now let us understand the bad side.

Remember that the CD is a mechanical device. The 'land' and 'pit' are physical variants just below the surface that reflect the light in different intensities. The amount of recflected light determines the ones and zeros. Given the minute amount of differences we are talking about, the error correction mechanism has a tough job to do.

Most laser assemblies are allowed to pivot in order to keep the laser beam in contact with the spiral data track. The high speed of rotation and the movement of the laser head can cause resonances that shift the laser head. When this happens, the data read will be incorrect leading to jitters and errors. A laser's direct hit on a 'pit' will most likely allow the laser to read the pit correctly. While error correction can extrapolate and fill in the missing data, better tracking will mean lesser errors leading to lesser error correction and better sound.

Sources and Acknowledgements

1. Stereophile
2. The Art Of Digital Audio by John Watkinson

Cheers


1. Is the laser beam of a player after some years of its use will be as good as it is at the time purchase/put to use when it is new in terms of its direction , sesitivity and intensity ?

One of the main things that happens to a laser mechanism after some use is that the intensity of the laser weakens. When this happens, the read head will find it increasingly harder to differentiate between the 1s and the 0s. A straightforward solution is to replace the lens.

The rest of the read head mechanism is mechanical and there will be wear and tear.

2. Is there any ageing to the optical head on its use and if yes will it skip the tracks

I assume you are referring to the photosensor that reads the data. In a CD player saying 'skipping tracks' is actually incorrect. Let me explain why.

In a CD Player, laser beam is thrown on the media. This is reflected back by the media and the reflection is read by a phototsensor. Depending upon whether it is a land or a pit that reflects the beam, the photosensor will receive a stronger (brighter) or weaker (less brighter) reflection. The brighter reflection is taken as a 1, while the less brighter reflection is taken as a 0.

Contrary to a LP or even a hard disk, the data is not segregated into tracks and sectors. From the beginning to the end, a song is one series of contiguous lands and pits. If a land or a pit is misread, the data is gone, and the head just moves forward. When this misread data is sent to the DAC, it become jitter.

A photosensor that is used in a player is usually supposed to last some 50,000 hours of usage - more than what you will use in a life time. If you use the player for 8 hours EVERY day, 50,000 hours will last for 17 years !

3. whether a C.D./ DVD player head weakens in picking up the data after years of its use?

Already explained.

4. Is there likely to be mechanical mis-alignment over the years like in servo-step motor driving the lenshead to cause misreads? I recall 3.5" floppies had many problems with this.

Yes, there will be. Remember any mechanical part will have wear and tear. Though these parts are made with great care, the precision and movements required are so minuscule that a tiny error could cause trouble. At the same time, this is compensated by error corrections.

As you go up the price ladder, the parts are manufactured with greater precision, and are made to last for a longer time.

Cheers
Thats why we listen to Vinyls. :D
 
Hey I was not even weighing your post about your tilt of opinion .. just put a reminder that we've been there before.

Besides i think my jokes and banter were interpreted as a multi-barrel rocket launch attack by a member ... :) Good think he is not the PM of India and does not have a finger on the Nuclear button ... :eek:hyeah:

Cheers

HAHAHAHAHAH U R SOOOO FUNNY:eek:hyeah::mad::p:eek::D:lol::);):yahoo::licklips::clapping::indifferent14::sad::cool::rolleyes:
 
^^ that must have been some kind of record for smilies..... :)


BTW @Gobble, you have made this one of the funniest thread online...... :)
 
Till date I fail to understand what is preventing the manufacturers to go for hard coated DVDs and CDs like Blu Rays. Its really very effective.Hard Coat will definetly increase the cost of disc production but its worth it.
 
There is hardly any item that is indestructible. Even a Blu-Ray, I am sure, can be scratched.

Ultimately it is question of price. I am sure any of these manufacturers can make a DVD that costs 5,000 and is much more protected. But will you it at all at that price?

Cheers
 
Hmmm on that note, I would love a blue and red laser device that nit-picks my hair during my afternoon siesta and also zaps flying mosquitoes around at night ... :)

Fancy that? :eek:hyeah:

Cheers

hey gobble - i have seen a slo-mo video of a seek-and destroy laser zapping a mosquito -
 
hey gobble - i have seen a slo-mo video of a seek-and destroy laser zapping a mosquito -

Post me the link ............... bzzzzzzzzzzzz :)

Is it heat seeking? What if the user farts in his sleep? :rolleyes:

Cheers
 
i thought the mosquitoes sought the heat..unless people are talking about that other kind of heat.....
 
i thought the mosquitoes sought the heat..unless people are talking about that other kind of heat.....

Mosquitoes zone in on the carbon-dioxide we breathe out. Thats how they find out cattle and all other animals in a large forest as well.


Regards
 
you mean 'home' in suri(e)ly..:D

come to think of it..i thought i would mention about another blood sucker the leech..any trekking enthusiast who has trod on the monsoon route of a temperate rain forest will realize what kind of a nuisance these creatures are..
like the heat seeking mosquito they too have some deadly weapons up their arsenal....first there is that anesthetic that makes you blissfully unaware of the epidermal invasion..the blood fest though is facilitated by a dose of anti-coagulant which ensures a steady supply of the nutritional liquid...

the cure however is quite simple and organic.. tobacco
 
Last edited:
you mean 'home' in suri(e)ly..:D

come to think of it..i thought i would mention about another blood sucker the leech..any trekking enthusiast who has trod on the monsoon route of a temperate rain forest will realize what kind of a nuisance these creatures are..
like the heat seeking mosquito they too have some deadly weapons up their arsenal....first there is that anesthetic that makes you blissfully unaware of the epidermal invasion..the blood fest though is facilitated by a dose of anti-coagulant which ensures a steady supply of the nutritional liquid...

the cure however is quite simple and organic.. tobacco

Yep, I've seen my leg from ankle below look like a severed limb from a horror movie :eek:hyeah:

Strong smells put them off. However my not bathing did not help much on that trek :rolleyes:

Cheers
 
A beautiful, well-constructed speaker with class-leading soundstage, imaging and bass that is fast, deep, and precise.
Back
Top