Share your idea or suggest me...I need advice on buying Sub-woofer for 2ch system
- Thread starter Cnu
- Start date
GeorgeO
Well-Known Member
CNU
Various opinions have been expressed about subs. Let me also state mine. In my personal opinion there is absolutely no question whatsoever that you are on the right track. Samll speakers or most 2 ways are generally unable to deliver good bass. Most towers are also unable to do that because they are designed for highs and mids. A sub is designed for lows, and you wont go wrong with one. Do audition as many as you can, though.
To every rule there are exceptions.
Various opinions have been expressed about subs. Let me also state mine. In my personal opinion there is absolutely no question whatsoever that you are on the right track. Samll speakers or most 2 ways are generally unable to deliver good bass. Most towers are also unable to do that because they are designed for highs and mids. A sub is designed for lows, and you wont go wrong with one. Do audition as many as you can, though.
To every rule there are exceptions.
1. any sub will match the BS crossover of 80hz (barring a very very few exceptions. Lots of BS go down to 40hz, some go down to even 30hz.
2. not true. there are instruments that go below 30hz. whether u listen to that kind of music or not is a different issue.
3. class AB amp is no proof for musical performance. most of the subs world wide use class D, doesnt make them bad. class AB will for sure use more power than class D, but is no proof for better performance.
4. again wrong. for best integration, no port is the supposedly best (disputable at the least). front or rear or bottom wont matter.
Let me share my experience too.
I had a bad experience adding a sub (Monitor Audio BR10) when I had Mission M32i speakers. What ever the bass performance which I thought was missing the sub for sure didn't bring it back but it made the listening experience worse. I returned the sub to the dealer, sold the missions and bought Mordaunt-Short Mezzo 2 bookshelf speakers.
These speakers have prominent bass performance with great mids and highs and now I don't find the necessity to go for floor standers or adding a sub in my stereo system.
I believe for most of your music listening the bass performance of your speakers and amp shouldn't bother you. Then if required depending on your music taste you can add a fast musical sub to enhance the bass extension further. If majority of the time if bass performance is an issue then there could be something wrong with the combo you chosen and adding a sub may not fill that gap.
Quad 11L and the newer Quad 11L classic were not same. You may have read good reviews about older Quad 11L and purchased newer 11L classic
@Cnu
BTW what kind of music you listen to?
I had a bad experience adding a sub (Monitor Audio BR10) when I had Mission M32i speakers. What ever the bass performance which I thought was missing the sub for sure didn't bring it back but it made the listening experience worse. I returned the sub to the dealer, sold the missions and bought Mordaunt-Short Mezzo 2 bookshelf speakers.
These speakers have prominent bass performance with great mids and highs and now I don't find the necessity to go for floor standers or adding a sub in my stereo system.
I believe for most of your music listening the bass performance of your speakers and amp shouldn't bother you. Then if required depending on your music taste you can add a fast musical sub to enhance the bass extension further. If majority of the time if bass performance is an issue then there could be something wrong with the combo you chosen and adding a sub may not fill that gap.
Quad 11L and the newer Quad 11L classic were not same. You may have read good reviews about older Quad 11L and purchased newer 11L classic
@Cnu
BTW what kind of music you listen to?
The timing of the bass can be controlled to some extent using the Phase control of some subs you should check if this is available as per the specs of your subs. Typically it has values of 0,90,180,270. . I have a Polk DSW Pro 660WI sub and it does have the phase control. However the control does not allow you to set a negative phase value so that bass comes earlier to music.
@Naren : i just wanted to know...can we delay or made the bass come early via tweaking its crossover...coz i will try adjuss manually to perfectly synchronise with sound...[/QUOTE]
Simple method to compensate to the time delay is to place the Sub a feet in front of the BS.Time dealy is only due to DSP's.
Simple method to compensate to the time delay is to place the Sub a feet in front of the BS.Time dealy is only due to DSP's.
iaudio
Well-Known Member
Cnu, the jamo sub200 will not be the answer to your problem. It is not suitable for music.Getting such a sub is not easy either.
Using the amount to upgrade to a set of FS would be a better option imho.
Using the amount to upgrade to a set of FS would be a better option imho.
@ravi : I thought of jumping to buy a sub...after having ur suggestion...i wont do....i appreciate your suggestion...im considering to change to bigger BS...I listen most of the time classical...sometimes i play rock (Classical : Rock = 70 : 30)...i will hold some time with it n i will check any subs that come in future with that adjustable optionof changing bass timing...else buy a big BS
@iaudio : yes u r rt...jamo sub will not be a option for me...im too thinking for bigger BS
@iaudio : yes u r rt...jamo sub will not be a option for me...im too thinking for bigger BS
@Cnu
I can confidently tell you for rock and classical you don't need a sub. I listen a lot to soft rock, hard rock, heavy metal etc.. and I find my amp + speakers seem great for the job.
Now you have an idea what exactly you're missing in the present speaker pair. I wouldn't say you sell your speakers but I would say start auditioning few bookshelf speakers which have great bass performance too which I think will be solution for you.
You can start with Mordaunt-Short Aviano 2 and Mezzo 2 which I think have prominent bass performance and go well with marantz gear.
A sub adds to the overall quality of the sound too because your speakers are now free from the bass duties and they usually perform well in midrange and top end because thats what they are designed for. You also can drive your speakers with a lot more power because above 80hz, most of the decent speakers will take a lot more wattage before they blow.
@doors666
Can you explain how you do that freeing the stereo amp and speakers from handling the frequencies below 80Hz?
AV receiver is out of question for music listening.
hifiashok
Well-Known Member
One option...... Active x'over.
@Ravi : Yes ...certainly i have it as the only choice left...but ideally as door666 said...if BS only do the job of mid n high freq range...and sub for low...it wud sound best...but certainly synchronisation problem affects else i wud have lot of choices of choosing sub...i will definitely audition with the speakers u said with...
@ hifiashok : can u please explain how can we tweak x'overs?
@ hifiashok : can u please explain how can we tweak x'overs?
hifiashok
Well-Known Member
I am referring to the option of using an active x'over to manage the signals going to the tweeter, midrange and the sub. Also, bi/tri wiring.
Oops, I don't think adding an active x'over would be a feasible solution for the OP. For that he need to buy active x'over, an additional power amp (to power the mids/lower mids as the integrated amps power amp would be powering the highs) and a sub woofer to handle the low frequencies which would set the OP by another 50k INR or more (10k for active crossover, 30k for power amp and say 20k for a subwoofer).
My speakers as per the spec they go down till 48Hz which is less as considered to 45Hz for Quad 11L classic. I listen a lot to rock and heavy metal. I never complain my bookshelf's lack bass even listening to pop.
Adding a sub if it works for the OP well and good. But still I think Cnu should audition good bookshelf speakers with prominent bass performance before he decides to buy a sub.
hifiashok
Well-Known Member
U r correct, OT. Was just in response to the Q to doors666.
you need a high pass filter for the speakers. either use an AVR, or use an amp that has a separate sub out. Or use a sub amp that takes the full input and high passes the input and feeds the rest to the sub. There are also separate high pass filters available for this purpose. of course active xo is an option.
If integration is that big a headache, use two subs. if placement is an issue, just use these as BS stands and keep the BS on top of the sub. Afterall, full range 3way speakers are supposed to sound best this way
If integration is that big a headache, use two subs. if placement is an issue, just use these as BS stands and keep the BS on top of the sub. Afterall, full range 3way speakers are supposed to sound best this way
An AVR for music listening? Interesting :clapping:
There are stereo amps with sub outs but it still sends the full range signal to the speakers unlike the AVR's. The AVR's priced less then half the price of most budget stereo amps has the feature of selecting the upper cut-off frequency for subs and lower cut-off for satellites. But stereo amps costing 10 times its price don't have that feature why?
Sub Amp?
So now the amplified signal has to pass through an additional device which may spoil the purity of the sound.
Also where will you find passive sub's to work with sub amps? A car stereo shop?
High pass filters/ active x'overs as part of stereo system?
I fail to understand why they are not available from full time hi-fi manufacturers like Marantz, CA, NAD, Creek, Roksan, Naim?
Integration means the sub has to work in phase with the main speakers. If out of phase is an issue like the sub not working as fast as the bookshelf's adding a second sub will not solve the issue and two subs will increase the cost. Also placing the bookshelf's on the sub may far be lower in height than the optimum listening height.
A 2 way bookshelf always sounds better than a 3 way speakers at the same price.Afterall, full range 3way speakers are supposed to sound best this way
Why not??? Tons of people are doing it. I do it. There are ways to improve the SQ as compared to the usual config. Use pure direct, by pass the AVR's dac and the preamp (this is the biggest culprit, I connect the asus essence output straight to the external decoder output, only volume control in AVR is effective). There are good quality AVRs too, just get the arcam AVR and see it beat the nads and marantz integrateds to a pulp. so you cant make a general statement that all avrs are bad and all integrateds are good.
The AVR vs integrated (or pre-power) might make a difference when your speakers are above a certain threshold. If you try this with a 10k polk, you probably wont find a different in sound quality, specially due to the amp. pre-amp might be a different ball game though.
I dont know dude, why dont you tell why? I dont own an integrated, so dont know.
Dont forget that each and every speaker in the world (except a full range driver based speakers) has a high pass filter. Other wise your tweeter (and mid in a 3way) will not last a day:lol:
The only additional device in this case will be a hpf. the signal does not pass thru an amp, it just connects to an amp. this option is only available on subs with speaker level input and output and then also its not necessary.
Dude, the sub amp exists in every active sub. if you ever get to see an active sub, you will find it in the back of the sub. so buy a sub that has this feature.
They exists inside almost every speaker thats a part of any stereo system in the world. what do you have against your hpf? do you have any personal experience with it or just what you heard from someone.
An active crossover cannot be a part of an amplifier as for this you need two amps not one. so how can you make it a part of it?
Most of the subs have a phase control switch or dial.
Of course it will increase the cost. who said hifi is cheap.
My point was regarding the placement confusion that people seem to crib about. Point is that if you keep the sub just below the BS, it kind of operates like a 3way in a sense that the point of origin of sound is almost similar to a 3 way.
Regarding the 2way better than 3way, I am on record in hfv on this already. Of course it will sound better in a given price point, as you can buy a higher series BS with better quality components. e.g. B&W CM series FS cost as much as 8 series BS.
BTW, I am talking from experience, I am running BS with AVR and a sub. Are you? have you tried it?
There is another option to use a good quality 7.1 channel sound card with an htpc.
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@doors666 ; can you please suggest sub with phase control...one thing im not getting if amp itself send signal late to sub...how wud phase control wud make it come in early...i heard this..i never heard any sub with my amp particularly...so dont know the actual condition...juss wanna hear ur suggestion in case if this happens
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