Share your idea or suggest me...I need advice on buying Sub-woofer for 2ch system

Why not??? Tons of people are doing it. I do it. There are ways to improve the SQ as compared to the usual config. Use pure direct, by pass the AVR's dac and the preamp (this is the biggest culprit, I connect the asus essence output straight to the external decoder output, only volume control in AVR is effective). There are good quality AVRs too, just get the arcam AVR and see it beat the nads and marantz integrateds to a pulp. so you cant make a general statement that all avrs are bad and all integrateds are good.
Doors dude, My point is I don't see the advantage in one going from an integrated amp to an avr for music listening. I understand you have an AVR and you use it for music listening.
The AVR vs integrated (or pre-power) might make a difference when your speakers are above a certain threshold. If you try this with a 10k polk, you probably wont find a different in sound quality, specially due to the amp. pre-amp might be a different ball game though.
OK.
I dont know dude, why dont you tell why? I dont own an integrated, so dont know.
Almost all mid-fi/ hi-fi stereo amplifiers don't have a sub out as the music they sound the best usually don't need a sub. I'm sure someone spending a Lac rupees on a stereo system won't be buying it just to listen to Bollywood dance numbers.

Dont forget that each and every speaker in the world (except a full range driver based speakers) has a high pass filter. Other wise your tweeter (and mid in a 3way) will not last a day:lol:

The only additional device in this case will be a hpf. the signal does not pass thru an amp, it just connects to an amp. this option is only available on subs with speaker level input and output and then also its not necessary.

Dude, the sub amp exists in every active sub. if you ever get to see an active sub, you will find it in the back of the sub. so buy a sub that has this feature.
There are hi-fi sub amps which work with hi-fi passive subs and active subs which have a built in amplifier.

I saw a sub amp with that feature (user selectable HPF and LPF) which cost 495+ 375 for a passive sub in UK . But I'm yet to see an active sub which takes speaker level signal and has a speaker out terminals with HPF to free the speakers from handling the lower frequencies. I demoed a REL G-1 sub costing 2L INR but even that didn't have that feature though it has hi level inputs. Show me at least one sub which has that feature. Speaker level inputs are just a provision to connect to amps which have no sub out or pre amp out. REL says speaker level inputs which connect parallel to the speaker terminals are the best way to connect the sub to make sure the sub integrated well. But that can't stop the speakers from handling those LF's unless you have an AVR.

They exists inside almost every speaker thats a part of any stereo system in the world. what do you have against your hpf? do you have any personal experience with it or just what you heard from someone.
An active crossover cannot be a part of an amplifier as for this you need two amps not one. so how can you make it a part of it?

Most of the subs have a phase control switch or dial.
Of course it will increase the cost. who said hifi is cheap.
Go and look back at your post I'm not the one who suggested active crossover. :lol:

My point was regarding the placement confusion that people seem to crib about. Point is that if you keep the sub just below the BS, it kind of operates like a 3way in a sense that the point of origin of sound is almost similar to a 3 way.
Regarding the 2way better than 3way, I am on record in hfv on this already. Of course it will sound better in a given price point, as you can buy a higher series BS with better quality components. e.g. B&W CM series FS cost as much as 8 series BS.

BTW, I am talking from experience, I am running BS with AVR and a sub. Are you? have you tried it?
Even I'm talking from experience. Here are some pics of my set-up what I tried. https://picasaweb.google.com/ravik350/MyHiFi?authkey=Gv1sRgCKqtiI-qocrdjAE#

I initially thought my speakers have less bass and adding a sub would make them sound hi-end. But to my surprise listening to The Doors, Pink Floyd, Eric Clapton, Elton John, The Eagles, Scorpions, Dire Straits, Guns n Roses etc sounded crap with the sub connected. Even without sub the sound is not to my taste and hence sold the speakers and returned the sub to the dealer buy M-S Mezzo 2 speakers. The new speakers are more musical with prominent bass and wider sound stage. Well it took me two months trying two stereo amps, two pairs of speakers and a sub to arrive at the present combination.

OK let me put it this way. If you have listened to a well paired stereo amp + book shelf speakers combo from a proper source you would know what I'm talking. That's my experience but it may not work that way for every one.
 
Ravi

I have to disagree with you ( with due respect) on this. I am firmly of the view that a well integrated sub adds a whole new dimension to most music-but that's my view. Also the concept of "passive sub" is now quite rare-almost all subs are active.

If an preamp or sub amp doesnt have a sub out, all you need to do is take an RCA splitter and one set of inputs to the sub, right?

Im not trying to add fuel to the fire here, just stating my opinion.
 
Doors dude, My point is I don't see the advantage in one going from an integrated amp to an avr for music listening. I understand you have an AVR and you use it for music listening.
And I also listed the AVR as an option that can be used to use a sub with BSs. There are other options also as I have already listed. Its upto the OP to decide which option he prefers.

The difference in the two amps, one inside the AVR and one inside the integrated is there, but its not all that great a difference. A well made AVR will have a good amp stage also. Ever heard of Dr Geddes, he's a legend in audiophiles circles, he uses a pioneer AVR because its got a very good amp stage based on chip amp.
OK.

Almost all mid-fi/ hi-fi stereo amplifiers don't have a sub out as the music they sound the best usually don't need a sub. I'm sure someone spending a Lac rupees on a stereo system won't be buying it just to listen to Bollywood dance numbers.
NAD Master Series M3 integrated amplifier has a sub out and bass management with adjustable hpf. its a 2800$ amp.

A 1lac rupee system is still a budget system, at best upper end of low-fi. dont expect it to sound all that awesome.

Not everybody has full range speakers to use with integrateds. Lots of people use good BS and satellites also.

If you dont have a hpf, you can always run the BS full range and still use a sub, though you wont get the full benefits of using the sub (mains still running full range) and the integration will be harder and there will be phase issues. You dont need to have a separate sub out for this purpose. You can use the pre-outs and feed it to your sub, if you have a shady amp that does not even support pre-outs, then you can use the tape out for this.
There are hi-fi sub amps which work with hi-fi passive subs and active subs which have a built in amplifier.
does not matter. a sub will have a driver and an amp. where these are located is irrelevant.
I saw a sub amp with that feature (user selectable HPF and LPF) which cost 495+ 375 for a passive sub in UK . But I'm yet to see an active sub which takes speaker level signal and has a speaker out terminals with HPF to free the speakers from handling the lower frequencies. I demoed a REL G-1 sub costing 2L INR but even that didn't have that feature though it has hi level inputs. Show me at least one sub which has that feature. Speaker level inputs are just a provision to connect to amps which have no sub out or pre amp out. REL says speaker level inputs which connect parallel to the speaker terminals are the best way to connect the sub to make sure the sub integrated well. But that can't stop the speakers from handling those LF's unless you have an AVR.
There should be quite a few, just because REL doesnt have it doesnt mean nobody has it. search on google for more info.
Go and look back at your post I'm not the one who suggested active crossover. :lol:
Yes I did, and I dont think you understand what I wrote. Its a well known fact that active crossovers are better than passives. If you understood crossovers, you will know this. This post is already too long to explain, so go do your homework first and search on google.
Even I'm talking from experience. Here are some pics of my set-up what I tried. https://picasaweb.google.com/ravik350/MyHiFi?authkey=Gv1sRgCKqtiI-qocrdjAE#

I initially thought my speakers have less bass and adding a sub would make them sound hi-end. But to my surprise listening to The Doors, Pink Floyd, Eric Clapton, Elton John, The Eagles, Scorpions, Dire Straits, Guns n Roses etc sounded crap with the sub connected. Even without sub the sound is not to my taste and hence sold the speakers and returned the sub to the dealer buy M-S Mezzo 2 speakers. The new speakers are more musical with prominent bass and wider sound stage. Well it took me two months trying two stereo amps, two pairs of speakers and a sub to arrive at the present combination.

OK let me put it this way. If you have listened to a well paired stereo amp + book shelf speakers combo from a proper source you would know what I'm talking. That's my experience but it may not work that way for every one.

mezzo 2 are decent speakers, much better than most of the other MS speakers and others in this price range, with these you havent tried a sub. i dont know what was your previous setup, so i cant comment on why you didnt like it. What I have found so far is that in india, if a sub costs less than 50k, its garbage (with a very very few exceptions).

I think the issue is that you havent heard a BS well integrated with a good sub.

You might be satisfied with 40 odd hz worth of bass at around -10db with the mezzos. I on the other hand like my music to be complete, whats on cd, i want to listen, and I like it flat -3db to 30hz, not at -6db or -10db or something. First I want to listen to all the music there is, then I will worry about getting the best sound quality. Different perspectives I guess:lol:
 
NAD Master Series M3 integrated amplifier has a sub out and bass management with adjustable hpf. its a 2800$ amp.
I think almost and usually doesn't mean everything :eek:hyeah:
If you dont have a hpf, you can always run the BS full range and still use a sub, though you wont get the full benefits of using the sub (mains still running full range) and the integration will be harder and there will be phase issues. You dont need to have a separate sub out for this purpose. You can use the pre-outs and feed it to your sub, if you have a shady amp that does not even support pre-outs, then you can use the tape out for this.
Doors anna, you got it right. My 450 stereo amp may look shady in front of your State of The Art Reference quality AVR :lol: May be if I listen your AVR I'll sell my shady amp.

There should be quite a few, just because REL doesnt have it doesnt mean nobody has it. search on google for more info.
Google search doesn't show me any sub with such feature. Can you please show me a sub which takes speaker level inputs and has speaker level outs with HPF so that it frees the speakers from handling the bass frequencies??? I guess this question is relevant and many would benefit from your answer.

I think the issue is that you havent heard a BS well integrated with a good sub.
BTW what AVR, sub/ bookshelf's you have which beats all stereo systems beat to pulp?


You might be satisfied with 40 odd hz worth of bass at around -10db with the mezzos. I on the other hand like my music to be complete, whats on cd, i want to listen, and I like it flat -3db to 30hz, not at -6db or -10db or something. First I want to listen to all the music there is, then I will worry about getting the best sound quality. Different perspectives I guess:lol:
Any proof of -10 dB @ 40Hz?? Could be as the spec say lower response is 48Hz :lol::lol::lol:

-3dB flat till 30Hz?? If your reference system has flat response what about room gain? Can I think its +10dB at 30Hz :clapping:
 
Hijack... hands up.. this is a hijack... this thread is being hijacked by 2 folks with bloated egos.... poor Cnu :-((

hey doors and ravi.. why dont you exchange pm's or phone numbers and exchange gyan ?

Pls leave this thread alone..

mpw
 
@doors666 ; can you please suggest sub with phase control...one thing im not getting if amp itself send signal late to sub...how wud phase control wud make it come in early...i heard this..i never heard any sub with my amp particularly...so dont know the actual condition...juss wanna hear ur suggestion in case if this happens

@Cnu
BK XLS200 is one sub which has continuously variable frequency control in your budget but you can't audition it in India as its sold directly by the manufacturer in UK.

To avoid out of phase/delayed signal coming from pre-out/ sub-out they have speaker level connections which connect directly to speaker terminals so that to make sure the same signal goes into the sub as the speakers.

Check this ebay link. BK was OEM for REL sub's sometime ago and their subs are favourite on AVforums.

Even then that can't free your speakers from handling the bass frequencies.
 
I think almost and usually doesn't mean everything :eek:hyeah:
You specifically mentioned nad and marantz, so I listed one from them.
Doors anna, you got it right. My 450 stereo amp may look shady in front of your State of The Art Reference quality AVR :lol: May be if I listen your AVR I'll sell my shady amp.
It wasnt supposed to be a comparison between yours and mine, it was a general statement. then I saw your equip list, and yes, I prefer my rxv663's pure direct music performance to NADs, almost all the NADs I have heard. And cost has nothing to do with this.
Google search doesn't show me any sub with such feature. Can you please show me a sub which takes speaker level inputs and has speaker level outs with HPF so that it frees the speakers from handling the bass frequencies??? I guess this question is relevant and many would benefit from your answer.


BTW what AVR, sub/ bookshelf's you have which beats all stereo systems beat to pulp?
Now you are putting words into my mouth. I never said that. And my system is irrelevant to the discussion.
Any proof of -10 dB @ 40Hz?? Could be as the spec say lower response is 48Hz :lol::lol::lol:

-3dB flat till 30Hz?? If your reference system has flat response what about room gain? Can I think its +10dB at 30Hz :clapping:

that was again a general statement, but you have taken it personally. just checked mezzo2 specs, its 48hz, unqualified, so it could be -20db for all you know.

did you ever consider the possibility that i was talking about in room response, not in an anechoic chamber.

this discussion is degenerating as I dont think you are interested in learning, but rather laughing, clapping and making fun of me. so i am going to bail out of this. last post in this thread.

OP, please send me PM if you want my opinion on this subject.
 
Ravi

I have to disagree with you ( with due respect) on this. I am firmly of the view that a well integrated sub adds a whole new dimension to most music-but that's my view. Also the concept of "passive sub" is now quite rare-almost all subs are active.

If an preamp or sub amp doesnt have a sub out, all you need to do is take an RCA splitter and one set of inputs to the sub, right?

Im not trying to add fuel to the fire here, just stating my opinion.

GeorgeO,

I agree with you a well integrated sub adding new dimension to some kinds of music. I don't say you don't need a sub for music listening. It all depends on what kind of music you listen to. Latest Bollywood dance numbers, hip-hop, disco etc. yes even a cheap sub make it sound great.

Do you think there is lot of music in Rock and Classical which go below 40Hz? How many of your audiophile friends/forum members you know have sub in their stereo systems (exclude AVR's as AVR is incomplete with out a sub)?
 
im really thankful to ravi_d and doors666 for putting their valuable opinion....i recently talked to Mr. Denny Jose of Bass n Treble...he said that wharfdale sub150 integrates well with my system...but im very much convinced with ravi's opinion of a sub which will speaker input to match signal...

@door666...please check PM
 
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