My bad. I was referring to Zypher Labs. I saw that name on the pic of the amp that you have posted.
Should Amplifiers Be Transparent?
- Thread starter kanwar
- Start date
My bad. I was referring to Zypher Labs. I saw that name on the pic of the amp that you have posted.
phoenixfirebird
New Member
the site has a few details about a sub-woofer amplifier
but lady blocking sound causing by high current power to subwoofer
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Yes its not constructed yet, that lady is just a regular template pic.
This calls for a dedicated thread called "The Difference Between Girlfriends and Amplifiers (slash Pre-Amp slash Speakers slash...)":lol: Bring it on!
Amplifiers have better WAF?
Kanwar, Are there any classic amplifier designs (topology) (most neutral) new or old which have withstood the passage of time and are still relevant and are simple to implement ? (A noob's noob question so please answer in simple language )
Thanks in advance.
)Thanks in advance.
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shershah
New Member
here is another thread on another forum about amplifiers-
very informative about many things and makes for a good read-
[INDIA] Group Amp project - diyAudio
very informative about many things and makes for a good read-
[INDIA] Group Amp project - diyAudio
shershah
New Member
Kanwar, Are there any classic amplifier designs (topology) (most neutral) new or old which have withstood the passage of time and are still relevant and are simple to implement ? (A noob's noob question so please answer in simple language
Thanks in advance.
i used to believe otherwise, hitensitapara, but now, after going through this thread and thinking about all the words said-
I now believe that anything below 8K watts (4000 watts/channel) - which is capable of supplying brutal loads upto 1 OHM (even 0.5 ohms will not kill this monster) -
will not cut the ice-
and apart from that, the only thing that will cut the ice (or hold water) is quadruple 18 inch woofers doing subwoofer duty.
about what should reproduce the mids and the highs in this system is very vague.
perhaps the thread originator (without help from our moderator) should come clear about how he intends to help us DIY'ers on this forum-
without kilo-watt thumping of own chest?
for example - in the thread on the other forum (diyaudio) mentioned above - this man (a.k.a. workhorse) has only only one post (thumping his own chest) in an otherwise very informative thread.
what is this man's agenda?
Mr. Moderator - please do not be trigger happy and delete this post - give a chance for the air to be cleared, before your personal prejudice kills democracy in this forum
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Kanwar, Are there any classic amplifier designs (topology) (most neutral) new or old which have withstood the passage of time and are still relevant and are simple to implement ? (A noob's noob question so please answer in simple language
Thanks in advance.
Hi Hiten,
Yes there are many such classic easy to implement topologies which have been designed/invented by legendary designers such as John Linsey Hood[His Famous JLH 10W class-A amp], Jean Hiraga's "Le Monstre "amplifier and many more.
Cheers,
Kanwar
dragonxwas
New Member
Are you really really sure of this ? Even the best in the business cannot make amps that sound EXACTLY the same..
Doesn't an amp emotionally tie you with its music ? then my friend you are a totally different bird..
And same if an amp doesn't emotionally tie you down with its music, just like a girl friend you change/upgrade it..
My analogy stands firm..
Cheers and Regards.
DS.
P.S. : Jean Hiraga's designs rock , I use a Upgraded version of his "Le Monstre" amp as my desktop amp
..i used to believe otherwise, hitensitapara, but now, after going through this thread and thinking about all the words said-
I now believe that anything below 8K watts (4000 watts/channel) - which is capable of supplying brutal loads upto 1 OHM (even 0.5 ohms will not kill this monster) -
will not cut the ice-
and apart from that, the only thing that will cut the ice (or hold water) is quadruple 18 inch woofers doing subwoofer duty.
about what should reproduce the mids and the highs in this system is very vague.
perhaps the thread originator (without help from our moderator) should come clear about how he intends to help us DIY'ers on this forum-
without kilo-watt thumping of own chest?
for example - in the thread on the other forum (diyaudio) mentioned above - this man (a.k.a. workhorse) has only only one post (thumping his own chest) in an otherwise very informative thread.
what is this man's agenda?
Mr. Moderator - please do not be trigger happy and delete this post - give a chance for the air to be cleared, before your personal prejudice kills democracy in this forum
Hello Shershah,
Thanxz for taking so much concern.
This is my blog entry on the DIYAUDIO, where i have contributed a DIY 1500W Class-H amplifier which i have designed, construction details with full schematics and gerber files to make PCBs for everyone who is interested.
Workhorse 1500W Bipolar Class H - diyAudio
Following is the thread related to that blog:
"DIY 1.5KW Bipolar Class-H" - diyAudio
I don't know what is making you so much arrogant. Till now i am exercising decency.
Regarding Kilowatts, then let me make clear the field of my work demands this much power capacity from the amplifiers for not only driving subwoofers but also MIDs where you have 1200WRMS capability of a single MID enclosure. A HF unit in pro-audio field is rated upto 300WRMS which is not the case with home audio where the woofer alone could be of 100W only.One more thing making high power amplifiers is my passion.
Regarding contribution to this forum, i am always eager to help anyone without any motive.
If you have anything personal, then PM me.
cheers,
Kanwar
shershah
New Member
Regarding Kilowatts, then let me make clear the field of my work demands this much power capacity
Regarding contribution to this forum, i am always eager to help anyone without any motive.
If you have anything personal, then PM me.
simple then, Kanwar, tell us more about your field -
and let us know how you can help us?
simple then, Kanwar, tell us more about your field -
and let us know how you can help us?
Shershah,
My field is very different from the majority of guys here on HFV. People here are home audio enthusiasts. Where you guys have speakers ranging from floor standers, book shelves, subwoofers which are not more than 1kw in power usually because the home audio never demands that much power.
Seriously i never built a single amplifier till date which is less than 1 kilowatt[call this as self boasting or whatever, but i am the guy who loves power, my passion]
My field of working is known as professional audio goes by the name pro-audio among masses. Here you have to cater bigger audiences,large arenas and sound reinforcements to name a few. Here the power levels demands are in multi kilowatt levels ranging from 10KW to 50KW. The hi-end pro-audio installations usually have a 4 way setup namely: HF compression driver, MIDS 10inch usually horn loade with flange adapter, LF-15inch, and ELF-18 to 24inch all EQ is done electronically and we never have a passive x-over in speakers, instead a dedicated amplifier of certain band of frequencies is prime choice.
Like you guys have Floor Standers and SAT-SUBS in your living room, I have my 2 Horn HFs, 4X15inch LF, 2 X 8inch MIDS, and 4X 18inch Subs in my Lab Room.........surprised, but not cos its normal for me
[due to the nature of my work]Regarding my help, i am new here , i really don't know if an average Indian DIYER wants to go that much deep in building the stuff for himself or prefers to buy one readymade from market. In my free time, i am diyer myself, always love to build and test things, new designs, innovations. I have few projects in my mind, i hope i can share them with you all, but i don't know if those projects are worthy/interesting for you guys or not. To name a few i am designing a Hi-end Class-G amplifier. If someone is having any query in technical sense regarding amplifiers, i am always available to help as much as i can.
I hope this helps,
Cheers,
Kanwar
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Given that a design has to compensate for tolerances in the parts, a good manufacturer can ensure that each unit meets his design concepts with measurements to prove his point. There are many manufacturers who do do that.
Music is emotional to all of us. If I find an amp that delivers the music better than what I have been hearing (read - gives me more emotional quotient), and if the amp is within my spending capability, why would I not think of upgrading to that amp? If you tie yourself to some electronic units, it will be like saying, 'whatever I have, however stupid, is the best in the world'. A smart operator would be ready to keep him mind open and accept it when he hears something that sounds better.
Your analogy is incorrect as you cannot compare human relationships and your relationships with mechanical/electronic items.
Cheers
This depends purely on the way you behave. If like me, you are willing to take a person on trust, you will find it easier to interact with new and old people. In your case, since you have already broken my trust multiple times, I will be weary of you, and will be keenly watching you.
BTW, I don't see/smell any foul air, nor do I see any hidden agenda of Kanwar.
Cheers
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srramanujam
Active Member
When i first saw the thread, i thought, this is refreshing, this is the kind of amp that i need. As life gave me further lessons, my conviction about transparent amps increased. My reasons are as follows:
1. When the left speaker refuses to come on, i am left wondering what is the problem. After i have isolated it to the monoblock in question, my anxiety is whether it is a simple loose connection or a major burnout. A transparent amp (in a physical sense of using some heat resistant translucent plastic as the case) will let me have a peep without having to open it.
2. Late in the night, when i am basking in the glory of a newly bought CD player, and i hear a blowout, i can atleast peep into the CD player (another transparent one) and check if it is the power supply or the fuse that has blown. Alas, if the CDP were to get as hot as it did, i may have a naked CDP rather than a transparent CDP.
Trust me, given my state of mind, these thoughts truly came to my mind.
On a heavier vein, as i read through this post, i could also place a forum members' comment separately about how unwelcome the forum has become for new members.
Maybe we should have amps with transparent casing, we should also have more transparent hearts probably.
Regards
1. When the left speaker refuses to come on, i am left wondering what is the problem. After i have isolated it to the monoblock in question, my anxiety is whether it is a simple loose connection or a major burnout. A transparent amp (in a physical sense of using some heat resistant translucent plastic as the case) will let me have a peep without having to open it.
2. Late in the night, when i am basking in the glory of a newly bought CD player, and i hear a blowout, i can atleast peep into the CD player (another transparent one) and check if it is the power supply or the fuse that has blown. Alas, if the CDP were to get as hot as it did, i may have a naked CDP rather than a transparent CDP.
Trust me, given my state of mind, these thoughts truly came to my mind.
On a heavier vein, as i read through this post, i could also place a forum members' comment separately about how unwelcome the forum has become for new members.
Maybe we should have amps with transparent casing, we should also have more transparent hearts probably.
Regards
shershah
New Member
I am not sure how many of you read the links provided. Rajiv has provided a link to a Stereophile article that is revealing. I am duplicating below a few paragraphs from the article that are very critical:
"The Final Achievement"
After this last bit of tweaking, where Bob was able to reinstate his 70dB null while driving a very difficult load, we now had what sounded like two absolutely identical amplifiers. No matter what speakers we used, every "difference" we thought we had isolated turned out to be there, in equal quantity, when we swapped amplifiers.
This time, the listening went on through the whole afternoon and much of the evening, until all of us were listened out. More leisurely listening, refreshed by a good night's sleep, failed to turn up anything. As far as we could determine, through careful comparisons and nit-picking criticisms, the two amplifiers were, in fact, sonically identical. It is a gross understatement to say that we were flabbergasted!
The next morning, I told Dick Olsher over the phone what we had found. "Bull- shit!" was his reasoned response. "That just can't be." But it was, it was then that we started to realize that, in reporting the outcome of this Challenge, we were going to have more to contend with than outrage and wonderment. We were going to have to contend with incredulity.
On the face of it, what Bob Carver pulled off should be impossible. You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear. What about the audible differences between transistors, capacitors, internal wiringall the things that we know contribute to the superiority of no-holds barred amplifiers? What about all the things that amplifier designers have learned during the past 20 years, which enable them to build better amplifiers (at whatever price) than have ever been built before? How could all of these things have been factored into the relatively quick and painless transformation of an average amplifier into a world-beater? But, of course, the "factoring-in" was the key to all this.
You see, Bob didn't have to concern himself about quality capacitors, minimal internal wiring, gold connectors, or any of those things; all he needed to do was duplicate, at the output of his amplifier, the sum of their effects at the output of the reference amp. Once he had obtained the necessarily deep null between those amplifiers, it was his belief that ears were not going to pick up on what was left. To do this, he needed only (!!) to know how to change practically any parameter of his amplifier's performancea knowledge which we must now acknowledge is his.
After the second day of listening to his final design, we threw in the towel and conceded Bob the bout. He packed up his equipment and limped triumphantly back to his Lynnwood, WA home base. (He had single-handedly hoisted the hefty reference amp onto a table at one point during the proceedings and injured his back.) The question remains whether or not we might have eventually picked up some miniscule but repeatedly audible difference between the amplifiers, had we been able to listen longer?
Somehow I doubt it. We had thrown some of the most revealing tests that we know of at both amps, and they came through identically. Even on the subliminal levelthe level at which you gradually get the feeling that one amplifier is more "comfortable" than anotherwe failed to sense a difference between the two amps."
The author goes on to state that a 'sound signature' is not anyone's proprietary information or knowledge, and can, as proved by Bob Carver, be easily duplicated. He also goes on to give the example of Visical where the concept of a spreadsheet can be 'duplicated' by others as long as the internal code is not copied.
Thank you Rajiv.
Cheers
"The Final Achievement"
After this last bit of tweaking, where Bob was able to reinstate his 70dB null while driving a very difficult load, we now had what sounded like two absolutely identical amplifiers. No matter what speakers we used, every "difference" we thought we had isolated turned out to be there, in equal quantity, when we swapped amplifiers.
This time, the listening went on through the whole afternoon and much of the evening, until all of us were listened out. More leisurely listening, refreshed by a good night's sleep, failed to turn up anything. As far as we could determine, through careful comparisons and nit-picking criticisms, the two amplifiers were, in fact, sonically identical. It is a gross understatement to say that we were flabbergasted!
The next morning, I told Dick Olsher over the phone what we had found. "Bull- shit!" was his reasoned response. "That just can't be." But it was, it was then that we started to realize that, in reporting the outcome of this Challenge, we were going to have more to contend with than outrage and wonderment. We were going to have to contend with incredulity.
On the face of it, what Bob Carver pulled off should be impossible. You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear. What about the audible differences between transistors, capacitors, internal wiringall the things that we know contribute to the superiority of no-holds barred amplifiers? What about all the things that amplifier designers have learned during the past 20 years, which enable them to build better amplifiers (at whatever price) than have ever been built before? How could all of these things have been factored into the relatively quick and painless transformation of an average amplifier into a world-beater? But, of course, the "factoring-in" was the key to all this.
You see, Bob didn't have to concern himself about quality capacitors, minimal internal wiring, gold connectors, or any of those things; all he needed to do was duplicate, at the output of his amplifier, the sum of their effects at the output of the reference amp. Once he had obtained the necessarily deep null between those amplifiers, it was his belief that ears were not going to pick up on what was left. To do this, he needed only (!!) to know how to change practically any parameter of his amplifier's performancea knowledge which we must now acknowledge is his.
After the second day of listening to his final design, we threw in the towel and conceded Bob the bout. He packed up his equipment and limped triumphantly back to his Lynnwood, WA home base. (He had single-handedly hoisted the hefty reference amp onto a table at one point during the proceedings and injured his back.) The question remains whether or not we might have eventually picked up some miniscule but repeatedly audible difference between the amplifiers, had we been able to listen longer?
Somehow I doubt it. We had thrown some of the most revealing tests that we know of at both amps, and they came through identically. Even on the subliminal levelthe level at which you gradually get the feeling that one amplifier is more "comfortable" than anotherwe failed to sense a difference between the two amps."
The author goes on to state that a 'sound signature' is not anyone's proprietary information or knowledge, and can, as proved by Bob Carver, be easily duplicated. He also goes on to give the example of Visical where the concept of a spreadsheet can be 'duplicated' by others as long as the internal code is not copied.
Thank you Rajiv.
Cheers
you must mean "I will be wary of you?"
weary denotes ennui - and a lost cause?
I am weary of you and shall certainly watch your activities very carefully.
Cheers
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