Should Amplifiers Be Transparent?

[kanwar]

Apparently, a higher damping factor would need other changes in the design which would alter the sound signature.

Regards.
Akshay

Hi,

Honestly an amplifier must be TRANSPARENT and should not have any sort of sonic signature on the music output. If you say it has a particular sonic signature then it means there is an ingress in its sound character. An amplifier must be neutral and should not in any way add any sort of "color or signature" to the signal it is reproducing in amplified form.


regards,
Kanwar

 

[magma]

Re: Puriss A1000A. Class A amp for serious listening

sorry kanwar
to that i do not agree

if all amps had the same neutral signature there would be no need to have so many brands would there

if God would have created everyones tastes the same - life would be mechanical

the fun is the flavour and the differnt likes and dislikes of people
Music is subjective and so is what one likes or doesnt

Hence there is a demand for differnt amps with differnt sonic sigantures

for example i hate neutral amps
In fact one of the amps i use is known to be colored! and i like it that way!

 

[akshayjha]

Re: Puriss A1000A. Class A amp for serious listening

Hi,

Honestly an amplifier must be TRANSPARENT and should not have any sort of sonic signature on the music output. If you say it has a particular sonic signature then it means there is an ingress in its sound character. An amplifier must be neutral and should not in any way add any sort of "color or signature" to the signal it is reproducing in amplified form.


regards,
Kanwar

Well, thats why sound is said to be a black art. 2 amps having the same tech specs can sound very different when driving the same pair of speakers. Thats also the reason why you must extensively audition before setting up a dream system. You may be using the best of components, but the combination may not be the best.

 

[kanwar]

Re: Puriss A1000A. Class A amp for serious listening

Well, thats why sound is said to be a black art. 2 amps having the same tech specs can sound very different when driving the same pair of speakers. Thats also the reason why you must extensively audition before setting up a dream system. You may be using the best of components, but the combination may not be the best.

When you say 2 amps can sound different with same specs on same speakers it means either one of them is not transparent and adding the so called signature to the sound itself.

 

[keith_correa]

Re: Puriss A1000A. Class A amp for serious listening

What is the reference for "transparent"?

 

[abhijitnath]

Re: Puriss A1000A. Class A amp for serious listening

Hi Kanwar,

This is all theoretically perfect and in fact, most DBTs show that people can't tell amplifiers apart.
However, the entire hi fi amplifier industry could potentially shut down if people didn't claim that their amplifier wasn't doing something special or different. Why would anyone buy a Wavac at $350,000 (with measurements worse than a transistor radio) when they could pick up a 1000 wpc B & O Icepower module at $300 which should theoretically work for all applications?

 

[kanwar]

Re: Puriss A1000A. Class A amp for serious listening

What is the reference for "transparent"?

There are series of tests which should be performed including TIM[Transient Inter Modulation] with pink noise and evaluated on the basis of crest factor, SMTPE IMD test 60Hz +6.5khz 2:1, Ingress Test using multi tone burst evaluated using spectrum analyzer, Slew rate test and reactive load handling are few of the known standards which are often used by manufacturers for establishing neutral character of so called sonic signature of an amplifier.

Hi Kanwar,
This is all theoretically perfect and in fact, most DBTs show that people can't tell amplifiers apart.
However, the entire hi fi amplifier industry could potentially shut down if people didn't claim that their amplifier wasn't doing something special or different. Why would anyone buy a Wavac at $350,000 (with measurements worse than a transistor radio) when they could pick up a 1000 wpc B & O Icepower module at $300 which should theoretically work for all applications?

Yes i agree. DBTs are more than often a marketing gimmick which only gives you a forced impression that "mine is better". I know that this kind of market is full of such amplifiers having known sonic characters with price ranging from thousands to lakhs of rupees, which are often used for selling the product to end users.

Measuring an equipment on the basis of well laid standards and then obtaining a factual piece of information is not at all theoretical , its a scientific evaluation.

Cheers,
Kanwar

 

[abhijitnath]

Re: Puriss A1000A. Class A amp for serious listening

This is a DBT.
What is a blind ABX test ? - Hydrogenaudio Forums
Don't understand how it is a marketing gimmick!

 

[kanwar]

Re: Puriss A1000A. Class A amp for serious listening

This is a DBT.
What is a blind ABX test ? - Hydrogenaudio Forums
Don't understand how it is a marketing gimmick!

Yes, its DBT no doubt, If done on serious basis its valuable but when the discerning listeners are unable to reach an argument/valid statement among themselves that if a " known " subjective or objective difference persists or not, what shall be the weightage of such test?

If you go through reviews of products by a popular magazine called Stereophile, you will feel amazed at them because they also do DBTs and bias their opinions on donations they receive from the manufacturers of high end equipment they listen when comparing them with competitors products. The products they evaluate and rate at topmost is the one whose manufacturer has paid highest perks to them.


There is a another very neutral magazine goes by the name Audio Technology who publish measurements which are very factual and are least biased. Having tested variety of professional gear myself i have seen the measurements i get co-relates with them in very nice way.

In that sense DBT is a clever marketing gimmick nowadays.

Checkout the propaganda which was exposed:
http://www.high-endaudio.com/RR-STEREOPHILE.html

 

[akshayjha]

Re: Puriss A1000A. Class A amp for serious listening

Hi Kanwar,

This question may sound personal. Though thats not my intention, could you please let me know how many and which amplifiers have you owned heard and enjoyed in the past.

Regards

 

[kanwar]

Re: Puriss A1000A. Class A amp for serious listening

Hi Kanwar,

This question may sound personal. Though thats not my intention, could you please let me know how many and which amplifiers have you owned heard and enjoyed in the past.

Regards

Hi Akshay

Having reviewed Bryston 7B, Arcam FJM P1, Ayre Mx-R to name a few which are mostly monoblocks and which i really like to listen. Apart from that i am also a professional amplifier designer myself and research analyst from past one decade.

Below is pic of my recent 8KW[4000WRMS per channel] Alpha amp featuring all dual mono construction.


Cheers,
Kanwar

 

[akshayjha]

Re: Puriss A1000A. Class A amp for serious listening

Hi Akshay

Having reviewed Bryston 7B, Arcam FJM P1, Ayre Mx-R to name a few which are mostly monoblocks and which i really like to listen. Apart from that i am also a professional amplifier designer myself and research analyst from past one decade.

Below is pic of my recent 8KW[4000WRMS per channel] Alpha amp featuring all dual mono construction.


Cheers,
Kanwar

Hi Kanwar, Could you please explain the design type. what bias current have you used. what is the rail volatge and o/p transistors. How many pairs of o/p transistors have you used. what are the distortion levels. And how transparent is it.

Regards.
Akshay

 

[akshayjha]

Re: Puriss A1000A. Class A amp for serious listening

Hi Akshay

Having reviewed Bryston 7B, Arcam FJM P1, Ayre Mx-R to name a few which are mostly monoblocks and which i really like to listen. Apart from that i am also a professional amplifier designer myself and research analyst from past one decade.

Below is pic of my recent 8KW[4000WRMS per channel] Alpha amp featuring all dual mono construction.


Cheers,
Kanwar

Which amp do you love most of the ones you quoted. Which is your favourite?And why.

Regards.
Akshay

 

[kanwar]

Hi Kanwar, Could you please explain the design type. what bias current have you used. what is the rail volatge and o/p transistors. How many pairs of o/p transistors have you used. what are the distortion levels. And how transparent is it.

Regards.
Akshay

Hi Akshay,

The design of Alpha is complementary Grounded Emitter Floating rails, 3-Stage Deep Darlington[Pre-driver->Driver->output] pushpull with 3-step Hi-efficiency Class-H switching stage. The output transistors are Fairchild FJA4312/4313 devices biased in modest Class-AB mode around 40mA per device. Total 52 Devices are in the output section of both channels. This amplifier is intended for professional installations in sound reinforcements only.

Owing to class-H operation the rail voltage is +/-60 LO,+/-120 MID & +/-180VDC HI

THD 1W is 0.001% @1khz

THD @ 1dB below Clipping is 0.05% at fully loaded @ 2ohms @ 1khz.

SMTPE IMD is below 0.05%.

SNR=100dB

PCB= 2.6mm Double layer Fiber Epoxy PTH with 75micron copper thickness

Slew Rate is 75V/uS

Filter storage Capacitors= 36 X 18000MFD/65V each

Full Power bandwidth is 20hz-40kHz

TIM is negligible owing to 12dB crest Factor average to peak ratio.

Damping factor is 1200

Reactive load handling is stable upto 60degrees of lead or lag with either inductive or capacitive loads.

Protection= Thermal, Open circuit, HF protection, Short-circuit, Clip limiter, DC-Offset protection using Traic crowbar.

Which amp do you love most of the ones you quoted. Which is your favourite?

Regards.
Akshay

I Like Bryston 7B the most.
Reason: It is capable of driving highly reactive and low impedance loads[speaker] with quite an ease, thanxz to its quad complementary outputstage.





Cheers,
Kanwar

sorry kanwar
to that i do not agree

if all amps had the same neutral signature there would be no need to have so many brands would there

if God would have created everyones tastes the same - life would be mechanical

the fun is the flavour and the differnt likes and dislikes of people
Music is subjective and so is what one likes or doesnt

Hence there is a demand for differnt amps with differnt sonic sigantures

for example i hate neutral amps
In fact one of the amps i use is known to be colored! and i like it that way!

Sorry to say:

Then you are not listening to the "actual music content", you are listening to the "Recipe" cooked by the colored amplifier.

An amplifier should "TEND" to be neutral than only you can get the essence of real music information.

Cheers,
Kanwar

 

[keith_correa]

Actually, FWIW, if an amplifier colors the sound and I like the color then I say more power to the colored amplifier

BTW, Kanwar, this is OT but I really like the way your Alpha looks. Wow! Though, when I showed the pic. to my wife she made a face. Women!!!

 

[kanwar]

Actually, FWIW, if an amplifier colors the sound and I like the color then I say more power to the colored amplifier

BTW, Kanwar, this is OT but I really like the way your Alpha looks. Wow! Though, when I showed the pic. to my wife she made a face. Women!!!

Holi the festival of colors is coming, so happy Holi to all, enjoy coloration in amplifiers also[just joking]hyeah:

Cheers,
Kanwar

 

[magma]

Re: Puriss A1000A. Class A amp for serious listening

Sorry to say:

the "Recipe" cooked by the colored amplifier.

An amplifier should "TEND" to be neutral than only you can get the essence of real music information.

Cheers,
Kanwar

hmm
and you decide what recipe i like or for that matter what everyone should like?
fantastic.

there is no definition of essence of music information
hmmm. also what would you say about musicians who have the same amp as i.
they listen to their creations on this amp
You are saying they produce transparent music and then have it colored by the amp
brilliant!

music is music my dear friend thats why its subjective
as i said no on can decide or state which amplifier captures the true essence of music
merely because that true essence is interpreted differently by different individuals

there is rarely something definitive in audio
what floats my boat may drown yours

 

[arj]

There is nothing called a neutral component..they all add "colour".

An regarding measurements...less said the better..we do not even know how to measure music..music is not in pink/white noise.

 

[kanwar]

Re: Puriss A1000A. Class A amp for serious listening

hmm
and you decide what recipe i like or for that matter what everyone should like?
fantastic.

there is no definition of essence of music information
hmmm. also what would you say about musicians who have the same amp as i.
they listen to their creations on this amp
You are saying they produce transparent music and then have it colored by the amp
brilliant!

music is music my dear friend thats why its subjective
as i said no on can decide or state which amplifier captures the true essence of music
merely because that true essence is interpreted differently by different individuals

there is rarely something definitive in audio
what floats my boat may drown yours

Deciding factor is your conscience not me, If you like coloration of specific taste then its your liking not mine.
I always prefer an equipment should always be neutral.

 

[abhijitnath]

There is nothing called a neutral component..they all add "colour".

An regarding measurements...less said the better..we do not even know how to measure music..music is not in pink/white noise.

There are enough and more ways to measure musical content across the spectrum- in a non pink noise manner. And when you talk of your ear as the ultimate measuring instrument, that is flawed too- the ear is far less accurate than measuring equipment used in the lab.
And there are neutral components available that don't act as expensive EQ units. It's a different matter (and possibly valid, too!) that you may not like that sound.