so.. whats in a Naim ?

[Thad E Ginathom]

Try taking an earth from the tt/phono to ground, or to something that is connected with a 3-pin plug, assuming that your home's earthing is actually wired correctly. Does the buzz change or go away if you touch the earth wire?

No doubt it will pain the purists, but my TT/phono is earthed to my PC case. Noisy PCs? Well maybe, but it sure is noisy without that connection! My TT has a 3-pin plug; my phono amp has a 2-pin wall wart.

 

[jls001]

At Phono Preamp side see if you can connect a short wire from ground screw of phono preamp to one of the RCA socket ground (Any one channel ground).
Regards

A variation of this theme is to connect a small value capacitor (a few pF) between the phono pre's chassis to ground socket of the RCA connector. Do all four (two ins and two outs). It has worked for some people with hum problem. Of course, YMMV. FWIW, I have a vintage Ortofon phono stage that uses this technique.

Another outside possibility is motor-originated hum (as was the case for forumer Pratim in Kolkata).

Apparently, what worked for my setup hasn't for you. This is called bearing one's own analog cross. And crossing that hill before you come out happy and smiling

On the other hand, you can also let sleeping dogs lie, especially if the hum does not intrude into the actual listening experience.

Question: you said, "TT spindle to the TT tonearm and onto the Ground wire" has continuity. Can you also try if this continuity extends to motor chassis?

 

[mpw]

jls,

I appreciate you and arj, dr bass , hiten, neo, denom, thad and many FM's for your valuable thoughts on this. Many thanks for your time and interest.

I plan the following ;-

a. Connect my original phono and observe for the hum. If it persists then i know that i was experiencing this before and had not noticed this.

If there is no hum then obviously something in the phono or the power is not gelling EM Interference wise

I got an email from Lehmann that this will be an EMI issue.

b. I had connected the lehmann phono power supply with a cheap computer cable for the moment. I have asked My Murthy in bangalore to send me a proper cable and this should arrive today evening. I know this is a small thing but i do not have the time to go to the market to get it made. So i opted for the ready made route.

b. Once this is in place, i will move the PWX power supply away from my CDP ( right now it sits on top of the CDP )

d. I will also move the Phono as far away from the TT as i can and see. There are limitations to this as the TT interconnect is only 1 meter long

e. I appreciate your point about the TT motor earthing. Please tell me the where is the point in the TT where i can check continuity to the motor earth ??

I appreciate what you say - but i was talking to Mr Kuruivila and told him i am learning the hard way ( In Indi it goes.. Gir Gir Ke Chalna seekha.. )

I am up for it and will resolve this to its logical end.

And yes.. I get by with a lil help from my friends.. ooh i get by with a lil help from my friends..:lol:

PS : I ran into a post by recordplayer in bangalore who said he eliminated the hum by replacing the TT interconnects and re-soldering the ground connections on the TT.

Thats at the back of my mind too. But to get there.. i must first eliminate al other possible causes.. and then the one that remains.. must be it !!

Reminds me of the Sherlock Holmes novel.. I think it is the hound of the baskervilles..

mpw

 

[Hiten]

A variation of this theme is to connect a small value capacitor (a few pF) between the phono pre's chassis to ground socket of the RCA connector. Do all four (two ins and two outs). It has worked for some people with hum problem. Of course, YMMV. FWIW, I have a vintage Ortofon phono stage that uses this technique.

Caps to filter noise ?? Just guessing but I think it was for old tube preamps etc. which had chassis ground to power line earth. Technical things are difficult to understand so I am not sure.
Regards.

 

[mpw]

wifey mentioned in the evening that the TV goes off on its own sometimes and that she sustected and earthing problem in the house..

Switched the phono back to the project MM and still found humm.. that drew my attention to the fact that my assumption that i had a good earth going could be wrong.

Me Mum switched On the AVR ( connected to the center and rears only ) to watch her daily dose of soaps.. and guess what.. the center and the rears hummmmm tooo !!

hyeah::sad::yahoo:

yeah - thats what i am feeling like !!

will get the earthing checked uptomo by an electrician..

anything better than the bulb method ( batti method ) to recommend ??



fingers crossed..

mpw

 

[Hiten]

Well done. Be careful with mains AC power. Better that an electrician handles it.
Also just to confirm do check the same amp, speaker with CD player instead of Phono preamp.
Regards

 

[jls001]

Checking earthing:

Consider a 3 pin wall socket. You are staring at it. The pin on the right is Live. The one on the left is Neutral. The one on the top is earth.

1) Line to Neutral must be about 230V
2) Line to Earth must be 230V
3) Neutral to Eerth must show less than 1V in AC scale. Most cheap multimeters have two AC voltage scales - first range is 0 to 200 V, second being usually upto 700V. The first range is not resolving enough to measure AC voltage of 1 or 2 volts. What one needs is a meter that has 0 to 20V AC range. But on the 0-200V range if you get a reading of <1V, consider your earth fine.

 

[mpw]

Well done. Be careful with mains AC power. Better that an electrician handles it.
Also just to confirm do check the same amp, speaker with CD player instead of Phono preamp.
Regards

=========================================

no hum when CD plays..

anyways i have disconnected and physically removed the CDP as i wanted the pwx power supply to be placed clear of any electronic objects.

lets see tomo when the electrician comes and as joshua said i will try and get a multimeter from my workshop.

as of now all indications point towards the home earth.

Once i am sure i have earth OK then the question of distributing the Earth to the required points arise.

first things first..

mpw

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

3) Neutral to Eerth must show less than 1V in AC scale. Most cheap multimeters have two AC voltage scales - first range is 0 to 200 V, second being usually upto 700V. The first range is not resolving enough to measure AC voltage of 1 or 2 volts. What one needs is a meter that has 0 to 20V AC range. But on the 0-200V range if you get a reading of <1V, consider your earth fine.

When I first used independent earthing, I had found earth/neutral voltage into double figures. In those days, the TT was my primary music source too. Whilst I did not hear that voltage as any buzz, I felt it every time I touched a metal cabinet, and life was much more comfortable without it.

My measuring device would have been cheapest of the cheap analogue meter. The sort of thing that, even then, you just used to check batteries.

 

[mpw]

hum gone.

Called over my local electrician with the light bulb and he got to work. It looked like he had experienced this hum problem in some other home in my area and was asking me pretty pointed questions.. weather the hum increases with the volume control pot ?

anyways.. it turns out to be some loose contact problem which got solved when we removed and re-inserted almost all plugs of all electrical items in the vicinity. This was after the MCB tripped thrice. ( Ofcourse the Naim and Lehmann were safely in plugged out condition )

The Earth line from the MCB point to all the loads were OK and that is a bit confusing.

Re connected the Project phono... no hum.. re connected the Lehmann phono.. no hum.. removed the extra ground wire from the Naim to the lehmann.. no hum..

Put back the CDP on the rack.. placed the PWX power supply next to it ( but on the opp side of the CDP transformer ).. no hum..

I think its gone.. it was a ghost.. it came.. it was there for a while.. and now hopefully no more..

In fact this experience has made me understand my TT better and i am in a strange way good for it.

Many thanks to all the folks who helped out. I wish i could send you some beer .. but here goes.. :cheers::signthankspin::beer::beer:

Now i need to get down to some music and get to know the Lehmann better.

All going well.. i will now post my listening impressions with the Lehmann.

Danke.. Spasibo.. Shukran.. Shukriya.. Thank you !!

:clapping:

mpw

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Good result!

Good electrician too.

It occurs to me that problems can be in the connected devices just as much as they may be in the house wiring. Now I come to think of it, I recall getting not just a buzz but quite a shock from the microwave case. It turned out to be caused by a short to earth in an AC unit. I thought that the earth unit was supposed to keep us safe!

 

[mpw]

hi,

have been thinking about the fact that since i have a pretty largish room, and i tend to sit quite on the rear or move about .. i may be missing some oomph from the lower octaves. the Epos M12i does a very respectable 54Hz at +/- 3dB. But i am not sure how to quantify this by hearing... if you know what i mean.

Any ideas for significantly better speakers than these to partner with the Naim Nait 5i.. something that also does well with TT's.. maybe a budget of about 1L.

Maybe not immediately but i thought i would look out.

Thing is i have been looking out but i dont find much fun in 2.5 way speakers. I find the net step to be a 2 way FS but these are darn costly - the good ones..

The proac response 1.5 on audiogon is available but getting it to India will be a crazy affair.

Any eperience with :-

Epos Epic 5
Epos Elan 30
Tannoy DC6TSE
Proac studio 140 - on sale on HFV i know..

Actually i rather prefer british built speakers than made in china ones - prejudice.. yes.. but i find my budget to be rather tight in this regard.

maybe i have to wait a while till i accumulate funds and the courage to look beyond the Epos M12i since it gives me so much... for the price i got it for.

thoughts and discussions welcome..though the purchase ( if it happens ) will take some time.

mpw

 

[panditji]

ProAc 140s are very good speakers and may fullfill your requirement...How much are you getting them for ?

Even the Tannoys are great speakers ... lovely midrange...

 

[Santy]

ProAc Studio 140s are great speakers. Can fill a large room with ease (goes loud without any stress / distortion). The dynamics are great and the bottom end is fast and crisp.

 

[ghatgepatil]

mpw ... since you can tag the amp along, you can try out the DIY makes in your area too?? Two such makes, only into music can be tapped ... Serenata Audio (BLH design) and Krypton Audio (TL design).

Both should be well within your budget too.

 

[mpw]

ProAc Studio 140s are great speakers. Can fill a large room with ease (goes loud without any stress / distortion). The dynamics are great and the bottom end is fast and crisp.

===================================================

prefer to audition the speakers before i buy.

santy - have you heard the Studio 140's ??

For the proacs - they say the fun starts from the Response series but that calls for a larger outlay too.

am concerned over some posts ( read somewhere ) that the top end can get bright. Dunno weather these need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

mpw
Mumbai

 

[Santy]

Mahesh.
Have heard it for hours. At our FM viki's place. They were better than several speakers heard in that meet. I liked it even more than ML electrostats. The highs are not bright to my taste but may be it is sensitive to the amp pairing. We heard it with Electrocompanient pre power and later with Krell 400xi IIRC.

 

[coaltrain]

hi mahesh

I switched from a pair of Epos m22s to the ProAc studio 140s, precisely because the treble on the Epos was getting to me. frankly, they've put me off metal tweeters for life! note: the Epos was paired with an ss amp (Primare), which may have compounded the problem.

the ProAcs were quite happy with the Primare, and are ecstatic with the current tubes. also, my 24 x 18 room occasionally seems small for the 140s. I get the feeling that a Response d18 might be a better fit. and, as you mentioned, the response line is definitely a step up from the studios. now, if only the Indian pricing made some sense...

 

[mpw]

hi rajesh,

i was always comfortable with the Epos M12i tweeter. I thought the naim paired well with it.

Just that with a large room of 20 by 20.. i feel i am missing out on the lower octaves and "room filling" ( not loud ) music.

selection of such a speaker throws up many challenges as with the limited funds i have.. i run the risk of getting a ' neither here nor there " kind of speaker which i am loathe to do.

I would like to look at good condition pre-loved ones and maybe i may get what i need in that sense or maybe a really large standmount.

But whatever i choose will have to face the daunting task of dominating the Epos M12i or atleast convincing me that the choice is worth it.

For the price and in fact far beyond the price.. in the standmount category.. i dont see any speaker which comes close to its pace and dynamics.

Ideally what i would like is a "golden oldie".. a "yesteryear superstar"....



regards,
mpw

 

[Dr.Bass]

Mpw, the studio 140 is your best bet. It is one of the most sought after speaker in the studio range. It's tweeter is sweeter than the one in epos, so dont worry about that. You will get a fuller and more satisfying midrange. Bass of course is much more hefty. Seriously, it is a good upgrade. You can also sell it easily when you want to change. It has good resale.