speakers for a 600 sq ft space

[sid]

Dear All,

After going through the various threads and the help that i found even as a bystander, i gathered the courage to become a member and post my query.

I am in the process of building a house and am still at a stage where plastering of walls etc. is going on - by conservative estimate, i will need my equipment around 4-5 months from now. I have been doing some research for home theater/stereo speakers, AVR etc. for the past month now, and since the real satisfaction lies even in this journey, i continue to labour on!!

I am looking for a home theater package which would balance movies as well as music. The space that has been earmarked for this activity is in the basement, and it is a hall of about 600 sq ft (21 feet x 31 feet). Structural constraints force me to have the visual output (LCD/PLASMA/PROJECTOR) in the middle of the larger wall...

For the receiver I am leaning towards the Denon 2308/2309 AVR. I am open to any suggestions on any of the components, but purely to keep this easier and focussed, my present query deals with the speakers... (I will trouble all of you with queries on each component as time goes on!!)

My budget for the speakers is approximately 75k... I am flexible on this (both upwards and downwards), but the only requirement is "value for money"... I am not too concerned with brand value other than what translates into sound and after sales service...

I have auditioned DALI Concept series, Polk Monitor 70, Mordaunt Short Mezzo, and a couple of others. AFter Diwali I am to audition the Polk RTi10 and Paradigm for the fronts... I just wanted to know if I am on the right track, and additionally what speakers should I focus on and compare before I make up my final decision. Also, where in or around Delhi are good listening rooms for those speakers, and if anybody recommends a particular store or another... In short, I need help in building this package from scratch and any advice/suggestions shall be appreciated...

Looking forward to an educational time at hifivision!!

Siddharth

 

[mridulgoel]

Dear All,

After going through the various threads and the help that i found even as a bystander, i gathered the courage to become a member and post my query.

I am in the process of building a house and am still at a stage where plastering of walls etc. is going on - by conservative estimate, i will need my equipment around 4-5 months from now. I have been doing some research for home theater/stereo speakers, AVR etc. for the past month now, and since the real satisfaction lies even in this journey, i continue to labour on!!

I am looking for a home theater package which would balance movies as well as music. The space that has been earmarked for this activity is in the basement, and it is a hall of about 600 sq ft (21 feet x 31 feet). Structural constraints force me to have the visual output (LCD/PLASMA/PROJECTOR) in the middle of the larger wall...

For the receiver I am leaning towards the Denon 2308/2309 AVR. I am open to any suggestions on any of the components, but purely to keep this easier and focussed, my present query deals with the speakers... (I will trouble all of you with queries on each component as time goes on!!)

My budget for the speakers is approximately 75k... I am flexible on this (both upwards and downwards), but the only requirement is "value for money"... I am not too concerned with brand value other than what translates into sound and after sales service...

I have auditioned DALI Concept series, Polk Monitor 70, Mordaunt Short Mezzo, and a couple of others. AFter Diwali I am to audition the Polk RTi10 and Paradigm for the fronts... I just wanted to know if I am on the right track, and additionally what speakers should I focus on and compare before I make up my final decision. Also, where in or around Delhi are good listening rooms for those speakers, and if anybody recommends a particular store or another... In short, I need help in building this package from scratch and any advice/suggestions shall be appreciated...

Looking forward to an educational time at hifivision!!

Siddharth

Hey Sid

Welcome to the forum buddy ... !!!
Have a pleasant stay here ... !!!

Buddy,
As per your audition :
Dali - Concept - Not Worth the price.. Concept is the very starting range of
Dali, and is not worth...
Polk Audio - Start up series of Polk Audio, not bad, but has many alternatives.
MS-Mezzo - Great Speakers, are more into for music...but a VFM product..,

Now regarding the amp:
Prefer Denon-2309...

Now regarding display :
Prefer a Projector as you have got a nice room size and projector will serve its best...

Now the suggestions...

Projector :
Hitachi - PJ-TX-300
Panasonic - AE 2000
Optoma - HD80
Epson - EMP-TW-700
(Between Rs.80K to Rs.1.5L)

Screen :
Dalite - 120" / 135" Diagonal - Pull Down CSR
(under Rs.25K)
or
Dalite - Fixed Frame Screen
(Under Rs.40K)

Amplifier :
Denon - 2309
(Under Rs.50K)

Speakers :
Dali - IKON 6 Series (But that will be Rs.1.7L approx.)
Wharfedale - Diamond 9 Package
Polk Audio - RTi Series
Q Acoustics - 1050i Package
or (if not any of them then)
Mordaunt Short - Mezzo Series
(Under Rs.1L)

Cables :
Usher - 16/14 gauge
QED - 16gauge
(Under Rs.180 per mtr)

Now when you are going on with Plaster, consider cabling and conduiting first...

Will you be interested in Home AV Automation, Lighting & Security...
Please let me know...

 

[sid]

Hey Mridul,

Thanks for your input...

I did audition the IKON6 package, but its way over my budget and though it sounds great, its just not for me right now... I will get to the rest most probably later this week... If you do have any suggestions on where I could go to for auditioning these, please do advise.

The biggest disconnect in my mind, and something i need a little bit of reassurance is - whether a speaker that sounds nice in a small (relatively) listening room will sound as good in my 600 sq ft space, or will the sound get lost... The dealers keep telling me that its going to be just fine...

I think that on the projector, screen and amp I am on the same page... Projector, i was leaning twoards the panasonic... and a manual screen should be just fine since the room is not a dedicated home theater room...

I will be interested in Home AV Automation, Lighting & Security - at least to find out what options exist - if you can point me towards some resources, that would be great.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

Siddharth

 

[sid]

A friend has been recommending telome sat speakers for the space... I really havent heard enough about them to take an informed decision... Anything that i should keep in mind?

Siddharth

 

[venkatcr]

The biggest disconnect in my mind, and something i need a little bit of reassurance is - whether a speaker that sounds nice in a small (relatively) listening room will sound as good in my 600 sq ft space, or will the sound get lost... The dealers keep telling me that its going to be just fine...

A basement room has two big disadvantages - one it could allow water to seep in and get the walls wet; and two it could sound hollow. If you stand in the middle of an empty room and clap or speak loudly, and you hear a hollow sound and distant echos, the room is highly reflective and needs to be treated for acoustics.

An inexpensive room treatment consists of the following steps:

1. Covering the floor with a carpet that will absorb the reflection from the floor.
2. Locating the reflection points on the side walls, and placing sound absorbers and diffusers
3. Covering the rear wall with sound diffusers. A nice open bookshelf is the best.
4. Placing a couple of bass traps on the four corners.

There have been a number of discussion in this forum on this topic. Please check them including the following link

http://www.hifivision.com/av-enhancers-room-acoustics/1968-wooden-vs-carpeting-ht.html

Now that construction is going on, this is the best time to handle the room acoustics. Done well and with the help of a carpenter, this will not be expensive at all. One of the easiest way to make a sound diffuser is to a make a MDF frame, fill it with glass wool, and cover it with a cloth matching the color of the walls. If you do minimal room acoustics well, and dont having screaming kids during a movie, you will be able to hear each and every note even at low volumes.

A friend has been recommending telome sat speakers for the space... I really haven't heard enough about them to take an informed decision... Anything that i should keep in mind?

The Telome speakers are clones of the Bose sub/sat systems such as the Acousticmass 15. If you go to a mall or a large shop and hear music, look around and see what speakers they are using. Most shops use Sonodyne or Telome, or some local brand. A complete 5.1 speaker set from Telome will cost around 20K.

You basically have three speaker types that you are considering:

1. A floor stander
2. A book shelf
3. A sub/sat system.

Both the floorstanders and the bookshelf have two or more drivers and an internal crossover network. An AVR generally sends a wide range of sound signal (~100Hz to 20Khz) to all these speakers, and allows the speakers to play to the best of its ability. Since floorstanders have larger (and sometimes) more drivers, they create a large soundstage that cannot be matched by a bookshelf. A well designed and well constructed bookshelf will create a decent soundstage and sound very good for music. Some floorstanders can play enough base to nullify the need for a sub woofer.

A sub/sat system, on the other hand, has five or more small drivers called cubes. These are necessarily attached to a sub woofer, which, in most cases has an in-built electronics and amplifier. The electronics decide which channel goes to which speaker. It is the sub that creates the sound stage as the cubes have no capabilities of their own. If you switch off the sub, for example, the cubes will sound absolutely flat. Even if the AVR sends a broad sound range to the cubes, the cubes will just not be able to understand or handle that frequency range.

A sub/sat system has it values - they look cute, they take up very little space, can be fastened to the walls. etc. They also sound passable for a small room where space is a constraint.

A bookshelf or a floor stander combination, on the other hand, will provide a large sound stage, more clarity and handle sudden peaks in sound that are common in HT. I always felt that a sub/sat system always boosts the base sound artificially to create a sound stage and thus removes the natural tone of the entire sound spectrum. A actor who has a deep voice will sound good, while the voice of a child that has some high pitch will sound artificial. The same problem is with musical instruments. In addition, a sub/sat system will find it very difficult to handle a quite scenes in a movie. At low volumes, you will hardly hear any sound from the sub/sat system. Please bear in mind that these are my personal opinions.

In addition a 2308/2309 and a sub/sat system will be a mismatch. If you opt for a sub/sat system, you should look for a more entry level AVR. A sub/sat system will play loud easily, and an amp that generates some 60/70 watts per channel should suffice.

Happy hunting.

Cheers

 

[sid]

Thanks Venkat...

Will definitely look at the thread regarding room acoustics that you have pointed out and try and incorporate whatever i can...

I completely agree with you on the analysis of the floor/bookshelves vs. sat packages... space is really not a constraint, and having floor mounts instead of the sats is going to add character to the room as well...

in the budget for the speakers that i have (about 75k), which other options should i audition... mridul has given some options, which i will get onto... just wondering if you have any pointers on the polk monitor 70 / RTi series as also the wharfedale... or any others...

Siddharth

 

[venkatcr]

Sid:

As was discussed in the other thread, for your requirements of games and movies, none of these speakers will work for you. You have to look for speakers from JBL, Yamaha and others that have similar sounds.

Cheers

 

[mridulgoel]

Sid:

As was discussed in the other thread, for your requirements of games and movies, none of these speakers will work for you. You have to look for speakers from JBL, Yamaha and others that have similar sounds.

Cheers

Sid

Are you looking a system, for HT & Music, or for Gaming...???

The recommendations, are more in for HT...
you may not be very much satisfied for the gaming, like simulators, but yes they will be good for, strategy(missions), action, racing...with nice sound effects..

 

[sid]

Sid

Are you looking a system, for HT & Music, or for Gaming...???

The recommendations, are more in for HT...
you may not be very much satisfied for the gaming, like simulators, but yes they will be good for, strategy(missions), action, racing...with nice sound effects..

To be fair, my "gaming" needs are very very basic... so we could even take the gaming out of the equation. The answer to your question would be - i want a home theater package for movies, which will do justice to the music that i want to play on it as well.

Siddharth

 

[mridulgoel]

To be fair, my "gaming" needs are very very basic... so we could even take the gaming out of the equation. The answer to your question would be - i want a home theater package for movies, which will do justice to the music that i want to play on it as well.

Siddharth

in tht case you have the recommendations...

but yes as you have a bigger room thn consider a 7.1...

and please provide us the seating details in the room...

 

[sid]

in tht case you have the recommendations...

but yes as you have a bigger room thn consider a 7.1...

and please provide us the seating details in the room...

i was thinking of a 7.1 but was under the impression that since there are very very few options which actually utilise 7.1, it would be a waste... as long as my AVR has the capability, i could upgrade to 7.1 from 5.1 when the need really arises...

there is another option that came to mind, but i may be completely off the mark... instead of merging my requirements of home theater and music, would it make sense to have both 2.1 and 5.1 as zone a and b with the same AVR - for example, if i try out telome sat speakers [or any other for the price range] (subject to them being suitable for the space, and obviously passing the audition) - which could be only suited for movies, and have a good standmount pair with the sub for the music (maybe b & w 685s)...

lemme know if i am making sense at all, or its too far fetched...?

i will try and upload a pdf which gives the plan for the area... but please bear in mind that it is a multi purpose hall, and not earmarked for this activity...

Siddharth

 

[venkatcr]

there is another option that came to mind, but i may be completely off the mark... instead of merging my requirements of home theater and music, would it make sense to have both 2.1 and 5.1 as zone a and b with the same AVR - for example, if i try out telome sat speakers [or any other for the price range] (subject to them being suitable for the space, and obviously passing the audition) - which could be only suited for movies, and have a good standmount pair with the sub for the music (maybe b & w 685s)...

Siddarth:

Your idea is correct, excepting that you will be using the same electronics for amplification, and just adding a more expensive speaker may not help much. Actually you can add the same speaker to the HT system as Front L&R also.

In my mind, there are only two options for the mixing of a good HT and music system. One: buy an expensive AVR that can render music with equal aplomb as it does movies. Such AVRs costs upwards of 2000$ - maybe a high end Denon, NAD, and other esoteric brands. Two; completely separate the HT and music system - buy a simple AVR with speakers, and a independent two channel amp, a good CDP, and matching speakers.

If you really serious, what I would suggest is that you buy a simple AVR that is tuned for movies (Onkyo or Yamaha), and a simple stereo amp and CDP separately.

For movies you can look at Onkyo 606 or Yamaha 863. Connect one of them to a 5.1 set of speakers that are lively and have a good sub woofer.

For two channel you can look at an amp from Norge, Pulz, or CA's 340A itself, connected to a CA 340C, and a pair of Wharfedale 9.1s or 9.2s. That will give you satisfying music. If you want to add a little more ooomph, look at Quad's 11L or 12L. They are excellent speakers for their price range, and cheaper than the 685s.

And all this together will meet your budget !!!

Cheers

 

[mridulgoel]

Buddy

The idea is fine...actually good...

But, dont think of telome, or bose over here...

When you are spending good, spend on something worth...

As vankat suggested go for a 5.1 reciever, and a 2.0 amp...

My suggestions would be to go in for either Yamaha or Denon, for reciever..

And regarding the amp, go in for Cambridge Audio...

 

[sid]

Will you be interested in Home AV Automation, Lighting & Security...
Please let me know...

Mridul... you had asked me about AV automation, lighting and security... i would be interested in these areas. Could you help me regarding this please...

Sid