Sugden A21 Se -Simply Magical

[mpw]

dont miss the ATC SCM 11v3 or SCM 7

Merlin TSM - distributor in singapore

Sonist Recital - is a large standmount - supposed to be quite good... search the net for singapore distributor. Snake River Audio are the owners of Sonist.

i am assuming your room is not too large but the above are quire satisfying apart from the rethms you are looking at.

whatever you get in the end... the above will add to your experience of good sound.

have fun !

regards
mpw

 

[Kushanava]

dont miss the ATC SCM 11v3 or SCM 7

Merlin TSM - distributor in singapore

Sonist Recital - is a large standmount - supposed to be quite good... search the net for singapore distributor. Snake River Audio are the owners of Sonist.

i am assuming your room is not too large but the above are quire satisfying apart from the rethms you are looking at.

whatever you get in the end... the above will add to your experience of good sound.

have fun !

regards
mpw

Thanks MPW..
I would be placing the speakers in a dedicated room ..12*24 sqft and so I am pretty much flexible with the positioning ....

 

[mpw]

if you are not hung up on floorstanders then ATC / Merlin deserve a serious ear.

regards

 

[Kushanava]

if you are not hung up on floorstanders then ATC / Merlin deserve a serious ear.

regards

Yes,my preference is to get Floorstanders,so that it can sufficiently fill my room.Also one thing I learned from owning the Dynaudio, and also while auditioning the C1's , they always needed to be cranked up as the presentation was too far away from my sitting position.I was always placed on the 5th or 6th row of the concert and I always wanted to get closer to the music.So my listening taste suggests that , I need an emmersive soundstage which is closer to the musicians.I loved the way how The Kef LS50 projected the music .It was very immersive and touching with the vocals.

I was reading through the Sonist Concert 3 and 4.They are really mouth-watering and considering their SET friendly nature , they are surely a must audition.If I am looking at ATC , I would probably listen to their active speakers , as I don't think Sugden would be able to drive them in my big room.
The Merlins were already recomended by arj before.So they should be in the list too.I am also really looking to hear a good single driver speaker or even a Magnaplaner(as in some review , i read that rethms sounded close to maggies).So I need to get around fixing the priority.

 

[soulforged]

For a layover of 7 hours, getting a visa can be tough but if you do, go to adelphi and walk around, you may see a few options. If you want to go for any specific one, try Reference 3A, especially NEFES or Grand Veena. You can contact Passion Audio for that.

 

[mpw]

If you will place the speakers along the longer wall then a large stand mount would do fine.

OTOH...if you like the kef LS 50 then go for it...that will save you time as well.

The kef ls50 needs a lot of juice and I think your amp
Can drive it.

Mpw

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Next Steps:
Audition speakers in Singapore: I am returning on 23rd Dec on Perth via Singapore.
I have a waiting time of 7 hrs for my next flight from Singapore to Kolkata.Thus thinking of spending 4 hours in Singapore.I am not sure if its easy to get on-arrival visa.

I don't think that Visa On arrival is available [to Indians] in Singapore. True, I never tried (or more pertinently, my Indian wife never tried) but we have travelled there a few times now and never heard of it as a possibility.

The visitor visa is not difficult to get. In this city, at least, one has to go through an agent, and it does take some time. Please check this out urgently if you want to spend that four hours listening and looking.

Anyway, after a mere four hours, you might find yourself checking for bargain fares to get back there asap, and a 6-month visitor visa wouldn't be wasted

 

[Kushanava]

@Thad - I am not completely aware of the process , but most people I have talked to here says that this is possible , as I would already have a return flight ticket to kolkata and an Australian Visa...Lets see if I can get any more information from somewhere else.

@MPW , i have to use the short walls as the room doubles as a theater room and I have my projector facing the short walls.On the KEF , they are beautiful above the mid range , but they are not deep in the bass ..as expected from a small monitor ...thats were i couldn't decide on them.Also i would be inclined to get the floorstandars as I would like to to move to a 5.1 set up in future ....

 

[dheerajin]

You wont find Bass response from any other SM or BS like you had in dynaudios...its better to go for FS and specially with 4ohm impedence speakers for deep bass..and there are many in this category...happy hunting

 

[mpw]

The stand mounts bring their speciality to the table and if you like the kef ls50..consider a good sealed sub.

Its an option.

But then if you do decide on larger speakers the rethms are a fine option and Indian too !

Save the running about and just speak to jacob.

Mpw

 

[Kushanava]

The stand mounts bring their speciality to the table and if you like the kef ls50..consider a good sealed sub.

Its an option.

But then if you do decide on larger speakers the rethms are a fine option and Indian too !

Save the running about and just speak to jacob.

Mpw

-------

kef ls50 -- will not be able to fill my room.They sound edgy if they are driven hard.They sounded good with the sugden at moderate listening levels.

Yes ,Rethms are always on the top of my list , as it echo's all the sonic attributes I like , but still you are not sure until you hear.I have already discussed , with Jacob and he himself asked me to listen to different systems before jumping onto the Rethms ..very kind of him to make these suggestions.He expressed that I may be fine with my Sugden but he would always prefer a valve.

On the Rethm V3 review on 6 moons , Srajan mentioned , that he never liked their pairing with the "Tellurium Q's Iridium 20".
That's were I have to be a little careful. If its un-bareable with the sugden , i may have to wait.But on the other hand ,its a compromised matching and I feel that I can live with this system for another two years , i will buy it , knowing that it can be improved.

Did you hear the Rethms?Where do you think they are strong ?
After you liked and owned the Epos , I think you have similar tests to mine .So your views are very important ...

 

[mpw]

hi kushanava,

are you back to kolkata ?

i have heard the rethms many times at Prem's place. I consider myself lucky to have been able to experience a good fulsome sound and prem's music tastes are more bollywood vinyl and that means the midrange has to be very good and it is.

Have heard rock etc.. on his rig and it sounds wonderful.

he has taken great pains in system matching and when a person takes such care and pain then the result is obvious - it will be a stunning system.

The new Rethm v3 Saadhana has a thread on it started by prem and i think you can hunt it down easily.

The Rethms need some space ( maybe 3 ft ) from the rear wall. The side wall distance is kept 3 feet will be good. I think Prem and jacob are the experts and i think you must PM them for more on the Saadhanas.

Requirement of space itself is not a drawback - any speaker requires space to push its capability envelope ( and not just be in the performance band - hope you get what i am trying to say )

Hydra has the Trishnas but i think the Maargas will be good one for you but last night i was thinking about your Sudgen and it will be better if jacob clarifies on the matching.

Normally... a Rethm speaker will go well with rethm electronics and cables. This is true for any brand... Linn / Naim etc... there is a compatibility issue to be looked at.

Epos M12i - what a wonderful speaker for the money - i have very fond memories of it.

My search for speakers has currently ended with the Merlin TSM. On the net you will find reviews and on HFV you will find 2 full threads of mine.

Many Mumbai FM's have heard it as well.

I think it beings to the table ;-

a. The advantages of a sealed box.... if you like a sub woofer it can integrate much better than a ported speaker.

b. Lovely from lower midrange and treble

c. Its a large standmount and i have adequate bass in my 20 by 20 room ( usable 12 by 20 ) ( the 8 by 20 on the right is open area ) ( pic on the Merlin Thread )

d. Its a very transparent speaker - it can and will reflect changes in your system and the type recording quality you play - easily. According to me thats a bonus and not a drawback.

Bobby at merlin is very easy to communicate with and knows his stuff. The only hitch is that India has no dealer so the logistics of import has to be managed and you may request Bobby for a special sale price for India as well.... once you hear it.

FM Shahrukh has paired his merlins with the Jolida as well.

When one demands a high performance system - every component has to gell ( or jell :lol: ) together.... just like a race car else the weak link will show up. Do keep this in mind. I am not talking of cost but of compatibility.

regards
mpw

 

[hydra]

...

Hydra has the Trishnas but i think the Maargas will be good one for you but last night i was thinking about your Sudgen and it will be better if jacob clarifies on the matching.

...

With a room of the size Kushanava has mentioned, he should definitely look at the Maarga or the Saadhana from the Rethm stable. The Trishna would not be able to take full benefit of the room.

I have listened to the Trishna with a Class-A SS amp (with a valve preamp section) and it was very good, especially the iron grip it had with the bass. A Sugden should not be a bad match with Rethms, IMHO. That said, I personally find the valve amp (pre+power) far more musical.

 

[Kushanava]

@MPW:I am still in Perth. Will be back next month ->December 23rd. Yes.Prem has taken his set up to a different level and he also has the advantage of using Vinyl that makes the system so pure from top to bottom.Hopefully i can get to 80% of what he has.

@Hydra:Are you talking about the Rethm prototype that you used.The amp I have is a21se is quite different from the a21a .It has more dynamics and neutral than the traditional Sugden.That is my fear ..I would say the a21 were more closure to the tube sound and sounded warmer and thicker and rethms may have preferred that.Can't predict anything without listening though!!

 

[mpw]

Another rethm I heard was with FM Jaibir when he was
In mumbai..he had the older saadhanas

 

[rikhav]

Prem at one point was considering first watt class a soild state amps but finally went with tube SET amp

Just a pointer for you if you consider rethms

 

[hydra]

@Hydra:Are you talking about the Rethm prototype that you used.The amp I have is a21se is quite different from the a21a .It has more dynamics and neutral than the traditional Sugden.That is my fear ..I would say the a21 were more closure to the tube sound and sounded warmer and thicker and rethms may have preferred that.Can't predict anything without listening though!!

Kushanava, yes, that's the amp I was talking about. To some extent, I think you'll be able to manage the differences between the versions with interconnects, but frankly that would mean quite a bit of experimentation, and that would be more of a "dirty-fix" than a proper solution!

In addition, I do know that Jaibir once tried a Nelson Pass Amp Camp (5W, Class A) and a Lyrita DHT Preamp with his Saadhanas, and he found the combo to sound quite good. He's written about it on the forum.

No doubt, the only way to know for sure would be to actually try the amp with the speakers themselves!

Edit: I think there's someone in your neck of the woods who's using Rethms (older Saadhanas, I think) with a Symphonic Line power amp, if I'm not mistaken. I don't remember what preamp. I'm PMing you details.

 

[mpw]

try a Spendor floorstander with this or a large standmount like the ATC SCM 19 or even a SM from the Spendor stable.

these should be on top of your audition list i think.

mpw

 

[arj]

-------

kef ls50 -- will not be able to fill my room.They sound edgy if they are driven hard.They sounded good with the sugden at moderate listening levels.

Yes ,Rethms are always on the top of my list , as it echo's all the sonic attributes I like , but still you are not sure until you hear.I have already discussed , with Jacob and he himself asked me to listen to different systems before jumping onto the Rethms ..very kind of him to make these suggestions.He expressed that I may be fine with my Sugden but he would always prefer a valve.

On the Rethm V3 review on 6 moons , Srajan mentioned , that he never liked their pairing with the "Tellurium Q's Iridium 20".
That's were I have to be a little careful. If its un-bareable with the sugden , i may have to wait.But on the other hand ,its a compromised matching and I feel that I can live with this system for another two years , i will buy it , knowing that it can be improved.

Did you hear the Rethms?Where do you think they are strong ?
After you liked and owned the Epos , I think you have similar tests to mine .So your views are very important ...

Personally I really believe in the philosophy of going by what the designer recommends.

The sugdens do very well when driven hard and not with light and easy loads and the Rethms are a light load. In the end the proof of the pudding is in eating it so ideally you must hear it before you commit but if you are buying blind then its not worth the risk.In that case,if your preference is to keep the Sugdens then speakers like Proac, Focal, merlins. KEFs etc etc will be a really good match
But if you want the Rethms , please go for a good tube amp as else the whole purpose of an upgrade is defeated as you will be going for a compromised sound and that will only make you listen less and less to your system which defeats the purpose of an upgrade

 

[Kushanava]

Personally I really believe in the philosophy of going by what the designer recommends.

The sugdens do very well when driven hard and not with light and easy loads and the Rethms are a light load. In the end the proof of the pudding is in eating it so ideally you must hear it before you commit but if you are buying blind then its not worth the risk.In that case,if your preference is to keep the Sugdens then speakers like Proac, Focal, merlins. KEFs etc etc will be a really good match
But if you want the Rethms , please go for a good tube amp as else the whole purpose of an upgrade is defeated as you will be going for a compromised sound and that will only make you listen less and less to your system which defeats the purpose of an upgrade

@Arj
Can't agree more with you!!I remember , you warned about this to me before also.From the little experience I have , and with all my listening experience with sugden on most of the speakers available in Kolkata , I felt that Speakers have more to do with the presentation of sound and you get more and more refinement once you start to clean up the back-end.

Yes , there can be synergy issues , as when I listened to the B&w CDM1 with sugden vs Quad amp , I preferred the Quad ,as the sound was more balanced and with adequate bass weight to create the right ambiance to the music. When we added the Sugden , it was magic at the mid and top end.My friend Tirthankar said , that the midrange was "just beguiling" with the Sugden.But at the same time I realized that Sugden couldn't produce the "Bass weight" that was needed to create the right balance.

So my understanding with amp was , Sugden would never produce a thump (no matter how easy a speaker is to drive), but what it really does well is quality bass (which may not be good enough for all kinds of music).This is the same feeling I got when I listened to the Tannoy Glen-air with the sugden.The midrange and the upper frequencies was to die for , but sugden never had the muscle to put the Bass weight , that the Krell did in comparison.

Now with the Rethms in reference , this is were I think Sugden has a slight advantage , as the task of driving the bass is given to the in-built amplifier, Sugden only need to produce a reliable , clean midrange and top end , that it is already capable of.But again , its all assumptions till we listen ....

So my priority , is to get a speaker that presents the way I like to listen to music , be it on a different amp to sugden.That's where when I listened to B&W 804D last week , i didn't like the presentation of the speakers for Vocals.They were always so away from me.The older CDM1 had a much better presentation(to me) , but lacked the refinement of the 804D.With the Kef ls 50 and the Vienna Acoustics the presentation of music attracted me , more than anything else.The smaller spenders was so at home with Sugden, probably the best synergy i got with my amp , but they sounded too polite and uninviting in their presentation.This is so difficult ...:sad:
Hope I can keep listening to more speakers and make a decision soon ...