Suggest Surround speakers which can go well with Epos M12i Fronts

[AMITNOIDA]

I am in the process of selecting 5.1 speakers for my movie set-up. So far I purchased Marantz SR6004 AVR and have shortlisted Epos M12i as front speakers. The speaker cable choice may be from 'Liberty'. The sound with this speaker cable was liked by all my family members during the demo (demo was in 2.0 channel with Marantz AVR).

I need suggestions for the surround rear speakers which go well with Epos. In Epos stable the options are ELS-8 (with 6" woofer) and Epic 1 (new model and the price of EPIC-1 is not yet available in India). ELS-8 is not a good choice for me due to it's big size as rear speaker.

My budget is around 20-25k. I need either a small bookshelf with <5" driver, which can be stand mount and kept in the two sides of our viewing position. Or, alternately the rear speakers may be dipole speakers, which can be mounted on the rear wall (I can mount them only at 7.5 ft or above from the ground). Our viewing position is almost touching the rear wall. The rear speaker sound should not be bright.

The Epos dealer suggested Canton CD 310F bookshelf speaker as rear speaker. This is a small bookshelf with 4" driver. The MRP of CD310F is 33k and will not be possible in my budget, unless the dealer offers handsome discount.

I don't like bright sound. Need your suggestions for rear speakers please.

 

[AMITNOIDA]

41 views but no response yet:sad:. Friends, need your suggestions on surround speakers which can be used with Epos M12i fronts.

 

[venkatcr]

The Epos are British speakers and have a unique sound which is excellent for music. Logically it does not make sense to mix these speakers with any other brand. If there is no option, the best would be to look at another British brand.

Two possible choices come to mind. One is Wharfedale - either 10.1 or 10 DFS. Unfortunately both these are large.

Another brand that comes to mind is Q-Acoustics. You can try either 2010 or 2020. Both should serve well, though, obviously the 2020 will be better. That is well under under 15K a pair, and come with wall mounting brackets that allow you to change the direction in which the speakers are pointing. The 2020 are actually used as Front L&R in many installations and would serve superbly as surround speakers.

Other good choices are Martin Logan Motion 2, Deftech SR-8040BP, and a few PSB choices. But all these are either American or Canadian brands.

Cheers

 

[AMITNOIDA]

The EPOS dealer has Q-Acoustics also. But somehow, in my mind I have thought Q-acoustics speakers are bright like Polk. Q-Acoustics 2020 speaker can be tried definitely. If it is found ok, it will be an economically good option. Thanks Venkat.

Another option, which came to my mind is Wharfdale 9 DFS (10 DFS will be big for my room, I think). But somebody cautioned me that EPOS and Wharfdale sound will not match. Any idea?

 

[venkatcr]

Another option, which came to my mind is Wharfdale 9 DFS (10 DFS will be big for my room, I think). But somebody cautioned me that EPOS and Wharfdale sound will not match. Any idea?

They will certainly match for surround sound tasks. I listen to Epos and Wharfdale on a regular basis, and there is very little difference in sound. The Wharfedales, particularly, their floor standing versions, may be a bit tighter and deeper in the bass area. That is all.

BTW, I do not like bright speakers. They tend to set in ear fatigue for me very quickly. Yesterday I saw three movies with my Wharfedales, and I am planning to see three more today. And, my ears are happy.

Second BTW - what are you going to use for centre channel, unless I have not read your first post properly? Please do not avoid a centre channel speaker. It is very critical for movies. Epos Centre Channel is an excellent speaker. Not too large, but having enough panache to deliver deep gruttal sounds properly.

Cheers

 

[venkatcr]

Q-Acoustics 2020 speaker can be tried definitely. If it is found ok, it will be an economically good option. Thanks Venkat.

The QA's are certainly not bright. You should listen to a few musical tracks using the 2020 as fronts. That will give you a fair idea of their capabilities.

Third BTW - having slightly bright speakers for surround task may actually be a good idea. You can hear the falling of glass, the tinkle of bangles, the creaking of doors better. Most surround sounds are meant to add to the ambience, and I doubt if they will contain any sound that has a frequency of less than 500Hz.

Cheers

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Second BTW - what are you going to use for centre channel, unless I have not read your first post properly? Please do not avoid a centre channel speaker. It is very critical for movies. Epos Centre Channel is an excellent speaker. Not too large, but having enough panache to deliver deep gruttal sounds properly.

Cheers

The centre channel will be from EPOS only. I have no 2nd thought in my mind in this regard.

My room furniture placement is such that the fronts can be placed at 6 ft distance only.

If the fronts are placed around 6 ft apart, whether i will require a centre channel?

 

[AMITNOIDA]

One more query - Whether it is mandatory to use same speaker cable brand for Front/Center and Surrounds speakers. If one can mix surround speakers from different brand, then logically there should not be any harm in using a different speaker cable for surround speakers.

For EPOS I may use 'Liberty' speaker cable, but for surround speakers (say Wharfdale Diamond 9 DFS) can I use DAC cables?

 

[sidvee]

Amit - my thoughts,
My recommendation would be to use similar Epos speakers all around, at-least the tweeters should be similar. If this is not feasible then definitely the centre should be from the same series with the same tweeter as the fronts. You can get away with a phantom ctr. channel (no ctr. channel, with the ctr. sounds mixed into the front L/R speakers), but unfortunately it would work only in the ctr. listening position or "sweet spot". Anybody sitting off to the sides will get louder sounds from the speaker closer to them, and centre fill will be muffled, consequently they will miss out a lot.
Finally regarding the surrounds, IMO bipolar/dipolar will work better for small listening spaces. Secondly if you cannot get the similar brand then whatever you get should have similar tonality of the mains and in this I agree with venkat that you will have to seek out "British voicing". I have heard some Epos speakers in the past and tonally they reminded me of B&W, Proac and maybe even KEF (have not heard MS, wharfedale, q so I cannot comment), so you can try out surrounds from these brands. Also consider Paradigm - I have found them to be very appropriate for movie soundtracks and possibly they may have some similarity to British Voicing.
Good luck - and hope this helps.
Cheers
Sid

 

[venkatcr]

One more query - Whether it is mandatory to use same speaker cable brand for Front/Center and Surrounds speakers. If one can mix surround speakers from different brand, then logically there should not be any harm in using a different speaker cable for surround speakers.

For EPOS I may use 'Liberty' speaker cable, but for surround speakers (say Wharfdale Diamond 9 DFS) can I use DAC cables?

Sidvee has already answered your query on centre channel speaker.

Regarding cables, logically there is no harm. But, why don't you simply use Liberty all around. It is just one less thing to worry about if you face any issues.

The DAC is not going to be much cheaper, if that is what you are looking for. Else, simply use DAC all around.

 

[venkatcr]

Also consider Paradigm - I have found them to be very appropriate for movie soundtracks and possibly they may have some similarity to British Voicing.

Sid, Paradigms are far brighter than any of the other brands we have discussed. Though, yes, they are appropriate for movies. At the same time, since Amit is set on EPOS, Paradigms will not jell well.

Cheers

 

[sidvee]

Sid, Paradigms are far brighter than any of the other brands we have discussed. Though, yes, they are appropriate for movies. At the same time, since Amit is set on EPOS, Paradigms will not jell well.

Cheers

I am not too sure of the current range of Paradigms (i think they are v5) but I own a 7 speaker set up of paradigm StudioV3 consisting of Studio 40 v3's, cc570 , studio 20v3 and ADP surrounds and in the same room I have my B&W 805's for stereo. Now I am no expert, but to my ears the Studio series (specifically V3's) are almost as smooth and warmish sounding in high frequency reproduction as the 805's and definitely not a forward sounding speaker. Not too sure of the Epos and Paradigm mix though.
Cheers
Sid

 

[venkatcr]

I am not sure whether the Studio series are made any more and, in any case, these are in a different league.

Cheers

 

[sidvee]

Yes the studio series are still around though in a different version than what I have.

Products - Welcome to the New Official Paradigm Website.

Not too sure how they compare with the standard series, but definitely worth a shot seeing as they seem to be easily auditoned/available.
Cheers
Sid

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Amit - my thoughts,
My recommendation would be to use similar Epos speakers all around, at-least the tweeters should be similar. If this is not feasible then definitely the centre should be from the same series with the same tweeter as the fronts. You can get away with a phantom ctr. channel (no ctr. channel, with the ctr. sounds mixed into the front L/R speakers), but unfortunately it would work only in the ctr. listening position or "sweet spot". Anybody sitting off to the sides will get louder sounds from the speaker closer to them, and centre fill will be muffled, consequently they will miss out a lot.
Finally regarding the surrounds, IMO bipolar/dipolar will work better for small listening spaces. Secondly if you cannot get the similar brand then whatever you get should have similar tonality of the mains and in this I agree with venkat that you will have to seek out "British voicing". I have heard some Epos speakers in the past and tonally they reminded me of B&W, Proac and maybe even KEF (have not heard MS, wharfedale, q so I cannot comment), so you can try out surrounds from these brands. Also consider Paradigm - I have found them to be very appropriate for movie soundtracks and possibly they may have some similarity to British Voicing.
Good luck - and hope this helps.
Cheers
Sid

Thanks Sidvee for your helpful posting. I have ultimately selected small bookshelf as surounds speaker. The bipolar speaker may not be good in my setup because I will be able to put them only at about 7.5-8 ft height from the floor due to window / door in the rear wall. Also, our viewing position is almost touching the rear wall.

I found Q acoustics 2010 small bookshelf speaker has more or less similar sound signature with EPOS M12i. The shift of sounds from surround to front speakers was found seamless without noticeable difference in tonality.

So, my final set-up would be:

Panasonic 42V20D plasma
Marantz SR6004 AVR
Oppo BD83 BD player
Epos M12i as Front L & R
Epos M8i as centre speaker
QAcoustics 2010 as surrounds
Liberty 14 AWG speaker wire
Audioquest Forest HDMI cable
A good rack for Oppo BDP, AVR and Centre speaker (not yet decided)