Sum Of All Years - All that I have learnt about building HTPCs

[humblebee]

Hello everyone,
I am moving on to a different phase in life where I will not be able to dedicate so much time to HTPCs / Computer Audio. And so I thought that this is a good opportunity to share all that I have learnt over some years of tinkering with PC based Video & Audio.

A short note here : Besides a Long Guide, I also want to write a quick & simple guide for building HTPCs. Maybe my next post will be about that. So for those who don't like to read a long post, check out my next one.

Lets first get some things out of this pleasant exchange:
- I am a quiet kind of guy so my writings also may not be very detailed. So you may have to intuitively understand some unsaid things. And in general just get the gist of issues I share. You may worry about your questions in your own tinkering time ! I will write those things that I really know make a difference.

- I am not an authority .... knowledge is a never ending quest ...

- Reading all this and digesting it may spur a thought - "if you tell everything, what will I discover?". No problem, you can rediscover/re-search. Perfectly OK. There's one more approach - build over it. Improvement will be done to these things even 100 yrs from now so ... take your pick.

- No I cannot divorce my emotions from my head from my opinions from my knowledge. I have worked hard to remain an 'integrated' individual. And I love 'The Big Picture' and 'Gestalt'.

That was about 'Why this article'.

OK so to get started I will write in points as they come to me.

So the first point that strikes me is - Why do we need to build an HTPC for movie playback? Isnt it expensive/waste etc. Other criticisms range from "They will never produce same quality as branded players like Oppo etc" to PC maintenance hassle etc.

Here are my cases FOR building an HTPC:

Case 1 - I would like to say that there is one convincing case that is irrefutable - that there will never be a versatile machine like a PC. Standards keep changing (did you hear about the h.265 ? Its there already.) Only the PC can play them all. Today or tomorrow always upto date with latest standards. Sure there can be a PS3 like player with updatable ROM. But companies like to 'control' things to 'their' advantage. They always have some or the other irritating limitations. PC is an open platform that can work for 'you' and you can have it all.

Case 2 - Constantly improving Video quality of PCs. AMD and Nvidia see huge opportunities in these areas and I suspect they secretly dream of beating Sony etc on their home ground. Even the PS3 is a PC ultimately. Did you know that even your LCD/LED is a PC too? I was surprised to find FreeBSD licence in my Panasonic 32" LCD. Fun fact : I once met a crazy French guy online whose 'mission' was to beat Sony (PS3 specifically) at video playback on PC.

Case 3 - Cost savings for so many features in one device. An LCD can replace a Monitor. A well configured Video playback subsystem can replace a DVD/Blu-ray player. A well configured Audio subsystem can replace a CD Player/Deck. Plus a PC does so many more things. Its an All-in-one Swiss Knife.

Case 4 - The allure of ultimate customization. Over the years I have seen so many variety of parts being available specifically on the Desktop PC platform that I can say with some surety that a well researched PC will end up differently for everyone. Think about that. A device that is unique to you. No one having the same system. Yes I think its possible now.

Case 5 - And what about the fun in assembling a system, making mistakes, learning / discovering new things, making new friends/acquaintances and in general making a new thing for yourself? Sure the TinkerBells/DIYers need no such reminding ! (A curious question pops here - have you come across a hardware girl nerd?)

OK that was about the 'Why Do I need an HTPC' part.

Next I will write about ... well give me some space here !

Have a nice day

 

[RMCWS]

Great read. Now waiting for your HTPC building guide.

 

[humblebee]

The Desktop - An Unexpected Journey

Sorry I am unable to write a quick buying guide. This will mostly demand a list of parts but parts keep changing. I will instead write about fundas that will be useful in all times. Plus some experiences.

The next topic that comes to the mind is : OK I need an HTPC but why bother so much? Just pick parts for a regular PC and play movie on a 24" LCD monitor.

Sure that works. But if you want quality and a decent self-respecting system KNOW that each and every part choice can change for an HTPC. And those HD rips? They deserve some decent system. Lets see how:

1) CPU :-
What CPU to buy for optimal experience is a mini research topic. I have a small spreadsheet that I will post online. Intel and Microsoft are masters in their game. They have the whole ecosystem figured out. To understand and play the game is an exciting venture!
But to cover some basic points:

Video Performance - Intel IvyBridge (CPUs with num 3xxx) has been tested by Anandtech to produce good quality video via its inbuilt GPU. Now dual-cores are out as they dont have 'Clear Video'. So i3 and above. This also means that you "dont need a GPU now" for good quality video. Also check out AMD range APUs where they have GPU built-in. I bought an AMD E240 single core by mistake and it played HD rips with bitrate upto 1500kbps acceptably (on Linux Mint). I believe an E-350 will play upto 3000kbps H.264 video without stutter.

Computing Power - Use cpubenchmark.net for finding how powerful a CPU actually is rather than guessing by GHz speed or going by shopkeepers' guesses.

2) PSU :-
What? Really? Yes. I would say that this is one hidden factor in good builds. What does each part need to run? Electricity. Who provides that? The field of electronics rests upon the field of electricals. A good PSU provides good quality and adequate current to all parts.

Advantages of a good PSU:

- long life of parts (due to low fluctuations in voltage & current). Electronic parts are very sensitive. This also lets you buy a cheaper MB. One that doesnt have like 20 phase current mgmt!

- Protections that wont burn your parts - Over current protection, over voltage protection, short circuit protection, under voltage protection, over power protection (only good ones have this last one)

- CPU wont feel slow in 3 years - those cheaper PSUs that cost a few hundred bucks wear out pretty fast. What happens when your bulb doesnt get enough power? It dims. What effect will it have on the CPU?

- Save money / save electricity. The power drawn by PSU is not all given as is to the MB. Some of it is lost when voltage is reduced from 220V to 5V/3.3V etc. There is a conversion factor known as efficiency. Good PSUs have an efficiency of 85%+. Get one that has at least 70% efficiency. Cheap ones have efficiency of around 50%. So if your system needs 100W power to run, cheap PSU will draw 200W from your UPS or Wall Plug. 85% PSU will draw - 118W. Saving of 82W. Plus they have longer life. This pays for itself over time.

- Effect on UPS - You can buy a UPS that is one level low bcoz of these power savings. For e.g. APC has models of 600VA and 700 VA. Since your SMPS will draw lesser power, you can go for 600VA model. Note that in the world of UPS, 600VA means 360W & 700VA means 420W - 60% efficiency. At least for APC. Check other cheaper brands for their specific output.

- There are other advantages too that are not coming to my mind right now.

(Hardwaresecrets.com is a great place for learning about PSUs)

Now what to look for in a PSU?
The list must be much longer if written by experts but mine is just this much.

Basic Features:

1) Should supply 'Continuous Power'. For e.g. if you buy a 450W PSU, it should continuously be able to supply upto 450W power to your system for whatever duration it is on. Not a decreasing or varying amount. This is generally mentioned on PSU boxes and is true for good quality PSUs.

2) Should have basic protections at least - OCP/OVP/UVP/SCP.

3) Efficiency of 70% at least.

4) Enough connectors for all your devices. HTPCs will accumulate HDDs over years. Cheap PSUs have connectors for only like 3 devices.

5) Check amperage available on +12V rail. (Mentioned on box packing). Suppose 15A. Multiply. Here - 12V x 15A = 180Watts. (P=VA in physics). This is required by CPU+GPU. Buy PSU that has twice the requirement of your CPU+GPU. Additionally add total power requirement of system. Buy PSU that has total continuous power of twice this much. MB, RAM, USB devices, HDD, DVDRW roughly take around 10W each. Suppose ALL add upto 200W. Buy a 400W PSU. Reason? capacitors wear out over time. And you want 200W for your system to perform at its best capability even after your PSU has worn out after 3 yrs. This way your system wont slow down even after 5 yrs. If you plan to add Sound Card, check amperage on +5V. Not sure for this. I couldnt find what rail the PCI and PCIx1 are connected to.

Cooler Master has a basic model of 350W for cheap builds. But I believe Antec BP300W is better. I once connected a Xonar DX on CM 350W PSU. Speakers started shrieking one day ! Problem went away on upgrading PSU.

Also, better current = better sound.

Advanced features:

1) Over Power Protection / Over Temperature Protection

2) Higher efficiency - upto 90% is available; take your pick.

3) Active PFC

4) Modular Cable Mgmt - this one is available on the best of the best. But is really not necessary. You just get a cleaner build inside the case. Add connectors as needed. Remove ones not required. (The ones connecting to HDDS etc)

3) MB :-
Oh mother ! Very complicated device. Basically see these:

- Should have PCIx16 slot of you plan to add GPU later.

- USB 3.0 as needed. See if it has front headers for case front USB 3.0 blue slot.

- Should have PCI/PCIx1 slot if you plan on adding Sound Card.

- Check if your CPU will fit into the slot of MB.

- Check chipset of MB. Buy one that has desired features for CPU. For e.g. Intel i3-3220 (Ivy Bridge) will fit into a H61 MB. But will only have 1333MHz RAM available to it. But if you buy MB with B75 chipset then you can buy RAM of speed 1600MHz. (Check Wikipedia page on related chipsets. Easy to check features there). Additional complexity fun - ASUS has a MB that runs RAM at 1600MHz in H61 chipset. Benefit - saved money.

- Check if CPU RAM speed = Speed of RAM you buy = Speed available on MB (Non-OC speed. Non-overclock normal speed. THIS IS IMP). Read MB manual for list of features. Open MB box - its there. Dont be shy in front of the shopkeeper. Take your time. For CPUs read wikipedia list of CPUs. Or go to ark.intel.com for complete list of features for your selected CPU.

- If no GPU planned, get a MB with HDMI out and save on GPU cost.

- Check if it has enough SATA connectors. One will go to DVDRW. One to Primary HDD. Should have more if you plan on adding more HDDs (will happen anyways).

- MBs available that have low EMI. That means lower distortion for sound. Coupled with shielded Sound Card, it should solve interference complaints of Computers being bad for Sound Playback.

- Fun feature - ASUS MBs have this MyLogo feature. When your PC boots, you either see many lines of text or the brand logo. It lets you change those for a photo of your choice. Think abt the possibilities hostel students! Gives a personal touch + removes a bit of that compu feel. Check if your MB has this feature.

- Need confirmation on this - DVI port for output of Video signals should be as good as HDMI as it is a digital standard so no loss of signal as in VGA . This is useful if you cant get a MB with HDMI out but has DVI out. Get a cable that DVI on one end and HDMI on the other for TV. (In VGA case, signal is converted to Analog and then back to digital in LED TV. So loss in quaility). But then you wont get HDMI signal passthrough to your AVR. But you can try SPDIF out to your AVR. I dont know if SPDIF supports DTSHDMA + Dolby TrueHD. Phew! Enough for this complexity!

4) Case :-
In India there are 2 problems that reduce the life of parts in a System - Dust + Heat. A good case does these 2 things at least:

a) Provides good airflow so that parts remain cool. Feature is available in costlier Cases but if you are short on cash then buy and add a fan or two to your cheaper case. Check airflow. Ideal is air coming from front low vent and going out from vent higher up in the back.

b) Has dust covers on Air vents so that dust accumulation is low inside the case & on parts. You can do this yourself. Buy a roll of thin foam and cover air vents from where air is coming inside the case. Feature is available in costlier cases. But DIY can be tried in cheaper cases.

A good HTPC case is Elite 361 by Cooler Master. Its like Rs 3000 but CM quality. It can be placed horizontally OR vertically and its logo turns accordingly. Good cooling and cable mgmt too! If you plan to buy ATX MB then buy a bigger case. I also believe that Antec 2480 is still available. I could find its dealer giving these. They were based out of Noida. It also comes with Earthwatts series PSU AND looks classy in silver. I have also used CM Elite 120/130 with Mini-ITX board with E-240 APU. Amazing case. But forget Sound Cards in that. Only Mini-ITX boards. (These dont have PCI/PCIx1 slots. Not that I know of.) You can use USB or external DACs with this. Also check CM Mini 210.


5) DVDRW - I once saw a higher end model that cost Rs 1500 DVDRW from HP. I imagine it must be the best one in terms of performance and life out there. Imp point keeping in mind that DVDRWs die out pretty soon. The regular HP one is the best one I believe. I have tried Sony, ASUS & Lite-On. I once had a faulty DVD. HP read all of it but Lite-On couldnt. That day i understood that there is something else besides the lens and reading mechanism - error correction. And thats a software in the chip. This chip is I believe developed by each company for themselves only. Maybe HP gets the drive from Lite-On. But they develop and dont share their error correction. This feature is also useful if you rip your CDs. You get a better bit-perfect rip. This is why I said that maybe the costlier HP drive is worth it. Lite-On would be 2nd best. LG/Samsung would be last.

6) UPS - APC I believe is the best. Its 700VA model has this unique feature that you can connect it to your System via LAN cable and it shows power consumption of your complete system in real time.

(Right now I am consuming 58W power. This includes 32" Panny LED in Eco mode + i3 system with Sound Card and 85% efficiency PSU. Shame I dont have HDMI out. Blue VGA it is. And I can feel the degraded picture quality :-(. Plus I have 2 SATA ports! I open the case and connect my DVDRW if I have to read a CD/DVD. My other HDD is unavailable then! But this has one strange advantage - I get to connect to my hardware more often instead of assemble it/forget it thing)

Check Wattage output of your UPS and match it to system requirements. If your UPS gives 420W, then no point in buying 500W PSU. Gamers take note.

7) HDD :-
In my experience, WD is the higher grade HDD. Seagate and Toshiba are Grade 2. Samsung etc are grade 3. Check its Cache. More is better.
WD has many series well labeled now. Check its website. Black - highest speed. Blue - middle one. Green - good for cheap storage; slowest.
These days they also have the RE series. Good for loooooong lasting archiving. If you plan to store your family photos/fav songs/movies. These are developed for higher redundancy and failure proof for server and demanding operations. Good for those who dislike External HDDs. You have to take them out and connect every time.

8) RAM :-
Not much to say here. Just buy a good quality RAM. Cheap RAMs burn out and become irritating to detect and replace later because of availability and pricing and CPU/MB matching. Buy highest speed RAM supported by CPU/MB now. Later when you feel system becoming slow, buy identical one later and slot it in second slot. System will become fast + double RAM = faster access.

Now with so much variety and your own personal needs, you see why I say that there is a real possibility of having a system tailored uniquely to you. But for that you need to 'let yourself identify your needs'. No shame here. Tell me how many products that you use, let you customize to that degree? I dont know of any. All are like - choose between available options that companies give you.

End of session.

Next would be CPU chart + GPU + Sound Card.

And then Softwares. Yes. Indians, arise and awaken to the power of the Software. The other half of Von Neumann Architecture. The bread earner for millions and the ticket for startup dreamers !!!

Ques : Whats better than a million dollars?

 

[ranjeetrain]

Thanks for the initiative. It will help a lot of readers! Keep up the good work!!

 

[RMCWS]

Re: The Desktop - An Unexpected Journey

A good HTPC case is Elite 361 by Cooler Master. Its like Rs 3000 but CM quality. It can be placed horizontally OR vertically and its logo turns accordingly. Good cooling and cable mgmt too! If you plan to buy ATX MB then buy a bigger case. I also believe that Antec 2480 is still available. I could find its dealer giving these. They were based out of Noida. It also comes with Earthwatts series PSU AND looks classy in silver. I have also used CM Elite 120/130 with Mini-ITX board with E-240 APU. Amazing case. But forget Sound Cards in that. Only Mini-ITX boards. (These dont have PCI/PCIx1 slots. Not that I know of.) You can use USB or external DACs with this. Also check CM Mini 210.

Is Elite 361 available for Rs.3000? Its available for Rs5700 here. So what is the current market price? An this will support an ATX right?

 

[humblebee]

As Good As It Gets

I suppose there are other deeper questions still that can be asked and convincingly answered. I am sorry if this seems like too much justifying. But I have had a long time to think about these things and I like to justify from many angles why I am doing what I am doing.

Plus I was thinking why people think Desktop is an 'old' thing and Laptop/Tablet is the latest. Which is the thinking that I see in my younger cousins.

But even Sony has taken the GPU from AMD in PS4. And all these electronic devices are becoming computerised really fast. Even the DigiCamera is a computer now.

Maybe an explanation of a Computer should come here.
Earlier in the days, there used to circuits that did the job. Look at the DVD Player or CD Player. They have the MPEG2 decoder / MP3 decoder circuits & chips that do the thing. But when the concept of the Computer was proposed, it was a very radical improvement over previous generation of electronic devices.
Sure it uses principles of electronics, but adds something totally new.

A COMPUTER IS A CONCEPTUAL SEPARATION OF THE TASK INTO CALCULATION PART AND INSTRUCTIONS PART.
The first becomes CPU & memory & other hardware. (Can do any kind of calculations. Every task is reduced to a set of calculations)
The second becomes Software.
Earlier, both were intermixed into circuits but the way of looking it was different.

This is Von Neumann Architecture.
And any device that confirms to this becomes a computer.
Yes, that smartphone too !
Take your time to let this sink in. It will be helpful in many many purchases.
Exercise : Why is a digicam a computer?
Exercise 2 : Will your son 'drive' a computer?

OK so some questions that I was referring to:
Ques 1) Why buy a Computer? Why not an electronic device like a BD Player (Who knows what that is from inside now?)
Like mentioned in other places:-
- It can do many tasks.
- New tasks are constantly being ported to Computers.
- Conversion to Digital of many older Analog tasks. Think music. Think Movies. Think Typewriter vs MS-Word. Think Digital Publishing - both docs & images (Adobe Photoshop). Remember your faded photographs. Now marvel at the photos of the all-rounder Panasonic DMC LF1.

Ques 2) Why buy a Desktop? Why not a Laptop or Tablet or even that quad core Smartphone and playback media from it?
- If your computer is going to stay at one place most of the time. Or you generally watch movies at the same place (like drawing room). Or if you want a central place to store all your digital assets. The Desktop Media Centre is unbeatable in these situations.
- Very few (I dont even know one) devices are there that can do download + store + playback all in one.
- You get more of everthing for the same price. When moving to laptops, similar model CPU will be like 25% slower. Thats HUGE when you look at 10% avg improvements per generation of CPUs. Similarly, RAM, HDD all cost less for Desktop. Tech is stable and old.
- Extend functionality easily. This is a major feature not to be forgotten. Dont fancy great sound now? Limited by cash? No prob. Today just start out with basic well made Media Centre PC for movies. If you have the cash and itch for it later or you begin to notice that MB sound causes you headaches in 1 hour of music listening, upgrade sound later. In comparison most devices have like fixed functionality. That too in many places is layered into class of products where you have highest video going with highest audio.
- Desktop parts are more reliable than Laptop parts. A well made Desktop of say 50k will last 10 years. Exercise : Name a Laptop that will last that long.
- Cheaper parts & after sales service. Laptop parts cost more to replace later on when they die. Plus most of the time you can diagnose & replace desktop parts yourself. Sorry I am a middle class guy.
- Customized according to your needs. A device made only for you.

Ques 3) Why Assemble? Why not buy Branded?
- The way to think about this is comparison with other things where you get your own thing made. Lets take sofas. Everyone knows that they stuff poor quality wood into sofas that are pre-made. Plus poor quality foam + springs. I am talking like 10-15k sofas. Solution. Get your own made. Will cost maybe 20k but will serve twice as much. There are many things like that.
And this is the chief benefit of Assembled PC. Why just stuff a good CPU? A comp has 12 parts minimum. Whats has the poor mouse done that you are allocating just Rs 200 to it? After all you are going to click away for 10+ years no?

A good assembled Desktop with all parts of good quality can be had for 50k. This was true in 1998 when i foolishly got a Compaq Celeron 366MHz instead of Pentium II assembled. This was true in 2006 when I got D805 dual core. This was true in 2010. This is true in the age of 22nm Haswell !

Branded will make sense if you have to buy cheap for a reasonable quality. Maybe a basic PC. Maybe for Office. Assembled PC that costs 22k cant match Dell Desktop PC. Dell has many tie-ups that local dealers dont. Try getting Windows 7 Home Basic licence for 2K.

"Teach a man to fish and ..."
"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them. You have to consider looking at those same problems but in a totally different way. This is known as a Paradigm Shift."

End of Philosophy session.

 

[humblebee]

The Matrix

OK, selecting the CPU goes here.

I will quote Intel here. Same research applies to AMD with their CPU ranges.

The basic approach is - You want the CPU to be usably fast enough for the "Entire Time that you will keep it (not just today) until next upgrade". (CPUs rarely die. They are Cast Away)

And how to know how much fast is good enough?
2 Things for this.

1) Decide the 'Computing Experience' you want.
2) Decide what CPU Performance score will provide that experience.


For 1):-

Pentium Dual-Core, i3, i5 & i7 are categories. These are designed to provide a level of "Computing Experience". You cant think that buying i3 means longer CPU usable life in place of Pentium Dual Core. Bcoz u will have adjusted to high performance experience and will want i3 in next puchase after 5-6 yrs. Not Pentium.

So first decide on the user experience you want. This is imp and will make a very big impact in CPU selection.
Value experience - Pentium Dual Core
Mainstream basic experience - i3
Mainstream high experience - i5
Performance experience - i7

There many things here. No point just looking up CPU scores. More Cache, more cache types, threading, cores, better GPU all add up to providing the next level of experience. So a Pentium of Haswell may have same score as i3 of SandyBridge but the experience will still be better for SandyBridge.

For 2):-

Look up the sheet below:

CPU Selection.

Look up the year of purchase. The corresponding CPU Score is what you want your chosen CPU to have at least IN THAT YEAR. Not much below that.

And where to get score from? cpubenchmark.net. Reasonably good as a buying guide. With accurate info. I have tested my CPU with their S/W and score comes to around avg of what they have. Twice - 2010+2014.

So for e.g. you want to buy a CPU in 2014 and want to keep it for 6 years and want a Mainstream High Experience, then you want to buy an i5 CPU that has score of 7761. Thats because:

- Every year, there is roughly a 10% avg increase in CPU score required for the same experience. Browsers get heavier. Registry gets clogged. Pointless SW slow down the system. PSU gives lesser current. Anti-Virus get heavier. More startup programs. Heavier codecs. etc.

- You want your i5 to give you a High Exp in year 2020 not just today. And it is going to take a CPU of score 7761 for that. Admittedly, you can drag it on for 2-3 more years. But system will start to feel slow.

CPU scoring also takes out AMD/Intel debate out of the equation.
Just remember that single thread performance is better for Intel.
So better for gaming as this is what is required in gaming vs more threads.

This scoring is for Win 7. A usable system by Microsoft. Win 8 is a failure like Win Vista.
Actually if one knows the pattern, it was almost a foregone conclusion
(Though you cant predict the future, apparently here you can)

Pattern?
Win 95 - Success
Win 98 - Failure
Win XP - Success
Vista - Failure
Win 7 - Success
Win 8 - Failure
Win 9 - ________

Deja Vu? Maybe.
Or maybe they try some features but cant quite get it right in first attempt.
Maybe Win 9 will get Metro right.

So now the next complexity. What about an OS upgrade?
On an avg, Your CPU score needs to be 1.5 times for the next 'usable' Windows system. Usable here referring to successful OS above.

So for e.g. If you want to have the same exp in Win 9 tomorrow, you will need an i5 of score 7761 x 1.5 = 11641.
Makes sense to keep this in mind as usually we end up upgrading OS for the many many features that come up and because we can download the hell off torrent sites and apply the cracks and never update our OS (Main cause of many unsolvable problems).

Linux is a non-issue. Easily drop one level of CPU for the same exp.
i3+Ubuntu = i5+Win 7.
Further:
Pentium+Linux Mint = i3+Ubuntu.
(But video will suffer here unless you get a GPU)

Next question : What is better Tick or Tock?
If you are a sucker for latest tech then definitely you want to go for latest CPU architecture. Tick it is in that case. But if you dont like that much and instead value stability, lack of problems, less heat; in general a more mature and stable architecture then Tock is your thing.

Next doubt : Is inbuilt GPU any good? Or is it like a boring regular upgrade to Intel Graphics of older days?
AMD has hammered the idea of a better video processors into the minds of Intel and Nvidia both of whom now have comparable features. Think developer poaching! So yes, they are better than just regular upgrades NOW.

Next complexity : Is overclocking any good and when to do it.
Now this is a topic in itself. And I have hardly any exp in this so experts look elsewhere. But I can say this much for unexperienced or who just want to get something done without any hassle : A 25% overclocking is achievable on avg MBs. (A simple non-tech procedure in BIOS. Search your BIOS) This means that post those 6 years, your CPU may not feel slow for another 2 yrs. Of course any part out of MB/RAM/CPU may die. But hey whats the harm in trying if you are already thinking of upgrading the system?
Feel your system slow now? Upgrading? Give your MB a chance. Try your BIOS tweak NOW!

And the last one : What about an upgradable system? Can I build one now that I can upgrade easily tomorrow with lowest expenses?

Ans : Doesnt make sense. But I would like to hear differing views. I have tried to achieve this for 3 times now but havent. Always ended up buying a new system. Reason?

- CPU sockets on MBs change like every 3 yrs on Intel platform and like 4 yrs on AMD platform. If you buy properly selected CPU this upgrade can be handled or bypassed. It makes sense in the case where you dont have cash today but just want the system to get started. Use Pentium for like 2 yrs and then upgrade to i3/i5. Here also buy the tick if possible. (Reach for Haswell now. Its MBs will run Broadwell CPUs)

- RAM speed gets increased which is unavailable for previous gen CPU/MBs.

- What will you do of your undead CPU/RAM? The second hand shop guy will offer you not enough money for it to buy a pack of Jockey twin pyjamas pack !


Other General Insights:
- Performance CPU score = 1.33 x Mainstream CPU High score
- Mainstream CPU High score = 1.5 x Mainstream CPU Basic score
- Mainstream CPU Basic score = 1.33 x Value CPU Score
(You can cross check with actual CPU scores. Intel has released tightly controlled CPUs.)

- This scoring was relevant even to P4 3.06 GHz. Although there have been some adjustments when dual-core was introduced.

- I suppose Win 8/8.1 Metro disabled will require almost the same power as Win 7. Maybe slightly higher.

Of course this has been so till now doesnt mean anything for the future. But it is good to have some guideline than nothing and will be good to see being validated in the future.

As you can see this is like a game to be played with Intel and Microsoft for least damage to your pocket and maximum mileage for your experience.
And it is never ending.
But it definitely feels empowering to engage in and 3 cheers to knowledge that gives us power to take on these Giants.


"You have to let it all go Neo. Fear, Doubt, Disbelief. Free Your Mind"

 

[humblebee]

The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus

The GPU now.

Regarding the HTPC thing, lets just get this out of the way:
A GPU will improve video quality without a shred of doubt.

You only have to read just one of the many many articles on Anandtech or Tomshardware. And its great isnt it?
I mean my cheap 700MB AVI Divx3 rips look so much better with video processing. This video optimization is absolute must for a self-respecting HTPC.
Sure, a faster CPU (any one these days) will playback highest quality rips. But thats not all you want. Its how much improvement is done to the cheaper videos where this advantage comes through.
- Those square blocks are handled well.
- Colour/Brightness
- Sharpness
- Mosquito noise reduction
- Stutter free video
- Now they also have 24p playback (for a more authentic movie experience)
- Many new features keep coming out.

AMD is the pioneer in this race. But Nvidia and Intel have caught up.
AMD has again shown leadership and customer care by introducing the APU series.
These are CPUs but also have built in GPU. This does all the video processing that a GPU does. So no point buying it separately.

However if you want to play back Blu-rays comfortably, get a GPU/APU that is at least as powerful as HD6450. Check APU reviews for power of its GPU.

Thats pretty much it.
But in practice, its a joy to see a video processing unit improve the video quality. Its a must have.

Now while we are at it, let me share some tips with the gamers:

Gaming power comes at a high premium.
A small improvement in gaming power commands thousands of rupees.
So there are basically 2 things that you want to determine at minimum.

1) How capable a particular GPU is, in comparison to another GPU.
2) What gaming experience you want.

For 1):-
Tomshardware has a very reliable GPU Hierarchy. Its updated regularly with latest GPUs. It will easily let you determine comparative GPU strengths of all 3 - AMD, Nvidia & Intel.

For 2):-
What really matters is what 'resolution' and what quality (4x MSAA and 4x AF is good enough for optimum price/performance. Beyond this is diminishing returns.) you want to game in.
Add in the fact that your monitor most probably wont game beyond 1080p, its pointless to buy a hugely overpowered GPU. Sorry to break your heart here. Mine has been broken so many times. I too dream of buying a Titan. Alas when it comes to actually purchasing, I have been unable to afford or justify shelling out so much money.

But all is not lost. Keep reading.

After determining that, you want to know what GPU will comfortably play those resolutions. Well there are reviews out there.
But I have tried to group the Tomshardware Hierarchy GPUs by resolutions.
Its available here (basically a different sheet in the same CPU selection workbook)

Its a bit old but you get the point.

One thing I take into account is that if I can get a GPU that will not require additional power, it will be a huge savings in PSU+UPS.
Currently 750Ti is a great choice
It will do Full HD games (most) AND it will run off only PCIx16 slot. That means max 450-500W PSU.

Nvidia admittedly is a step ahead in GPU power.
And so it charges accordingly too!

Thats all I have for this topic.

Happy movie watching or Gaming !

 

[humblebee]

Life is Beautiful

Is Elite 361 available for Rs.3000? Its available for Rs5700 here. So what is the current market price? An this will support an ATX right?

Hows that possible? Last year August, the MRP of this case was Rs 3200.

Well I can tell you this thing guys. Acro Engineering (SMC International) is the importer of CM products in India. Their online shop is smcinternational.in. Their own shop is in Nehru Place. Bargain with them hard.
By the way they are also the importer of SoundMagic headphones. So maybe you will get a good price for that as well.

Elite 361 available there for Rs 2415

The GX series PSU by CM is good too.
Yes, hardwasecrets reviews PSUs too.
Somewhere out there is a list of PSU reviews sorted by brands. I lost the link when shifted to new desktop.

Best wishes

 

[humblebee]

Now You See Me

Some misc small points in hardware before going to Software:

- ASUS is the No 1 in Motherboards. MSI gives good value for money. Foxconn should be good too. They are huge suppliers to MB-on-order by many brands. I havent presonally tried them. My ASUS never burnt out.

- What abt KB+Mouse? Wireless bundles are good. Wireless mouse can play/pause movies from far. Laser mouse has been a nice premium experience. I personally have Logitech Wave. As I was about to embark on a crazy typing endeavour but sadly didnt !
But frankly even this Stratospherically costly KB falls short on typing satisfaction. Microsoft always felt better while typing. Some time back I researched on the best KB for typing. Although Wave has that Non-fatiguing thing (Wave+Curve+RestPad - good for programmers), the real ones to get are Cherry Keyboards (A type of key. Many cherry types exist). See if you can get a Non-fatiguing+cherry keyboard (should be ultimate for hackers). Otherwise there is the TVS Gold. Cheap and will probably be used by your programmer son (life) !

- My USB 3.0 pen drive performs at 3 times both in copy & write on a USB 2.0 slot as compared to regular 2.0 pen drive. I still dont have a 3.0 slot. I guess they can simply use more electricity hence more juice.

- CM USP100 is an OK case for gaming builds. Its cheap (< 4K) and has those basic features. I am using it personally. Plus it will accomodate ATX MBs.

- CM Elite 361 has 8 rubber pegs. Apply or remove as you wish. Be careful with its lower vent when placed horizontally. Your PSU might pull air inside the case. Which means dirt will come in too. You know what to do - Foam.

- I got some decent Mouse Pads from Nehru Place. They costed Rs 250 each. They are dying a slow death. Maybe I should give them away.

Cheers

 

[humblebee]

Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid

Oh I forgot to write about Sound Card & Speakers !

Now I have personally used Xonar DG, Xonar DX & Xonar D2X.

Speaking of performance & balanced pairing - DG makes sense to be paired with Edifier DAPro. Both are budget and of similar grade in performance. DX is a bit overkill for DAPro. Speakers will not be able to perform at the clarity of DX. Waste of talent for DX.

DX - can be paired with Edifier S550. Or BA XS 5.1. But will need a 5 channel amp.
Maybe you can even pair D2X with S550. Will definitely make a difference.

Throw away their bundled speaker wires. Useless and short. Get a 16 Gauge wire - upto Rs 50/metre is good enough for DAPro. Sound quality jump will be worth it. I used a Bangalore company's wires. Rs 30/M. Forgot the name.

MX Cables should be good for S550 etc.

Edifier right now has the best budget range speakers. Yes they dont deserve to be called HiFi. But neither is DG or DX.

But D2X is a good beast. It has an EMI shield. It has that nice Burr-Brown DAC. I think it comes in the 7.1 HiFi category. Unfortunately I cant find a decent set of powered speakers for them. Maybe pair them with a 7 channel amp + Tannoy HTS 101 ?

I tried a funky combo - Xonar DX + Edifier C3 + Edifier DAPro.
Benefits:
- For music listening I used C3. Its much better than DAPro for music.
- For movies I got a 7.2 channel system. Activated Dolby ProLogix 7.1 upmixing. Great Bass with two 8" woofers.

I got these and other suggestions in my Sound Card selling thread here.

I still got them for sale.

For Listening to Audio:
My current sound card is an M-Audio 2496.
It has a clock. Better timing than DX. Its sound is smoother than DX. DX has more clarity. (Only 104db snr for M-Audio i guess is the reason). It has gold plated RCA out. Does SPDIF out.
Its pairing with C3 was - well, by my modest standards I never heard such sound.
The heavy bass songs like Rock On (waqt ka ishara) used to make some strange noise with DX. But not with M-Audio. (When I set its buffer to 4MB)

But this sound card deserves better. I have searched for worthy 2.1 but unable to find one.
The Swan M50W has 6.5" woofer. I want min 8" after listening to C3.
Maybe Teufel Motiv 2 MK2 (35k) will do the trick. But how to import it?
No AudioEngine A2+S8 will not do. Firstly they are old (2008). Secondly, A2's sound siganature has been modified to have a bass bump.

I am biased towards 2.1's. Reason:
1) You get three drivers - 1" + 3" + 8" - covers maximum frequency range.
2) No hassle of matching Amp with Speakers.
3) No hassle of matching sound signature of Amp with Speakers.
4) Bass can be turned up for Party Songs (imagine Flo Rida with any less bass)
5) Or down for mellower songs
6) Cost less when bought as a bundle.

Want to go higher?
Consider Pairing Xonar Essense ST with either of these:
1) Paradigm Millenium - Rs 60k
2) Q Acoustics 7000i 2.1 ~ Rs 60k
3) Focal Bird ~ Rs 90k

External DAC? Xonar Essense External DAC costs much more. Internal Sound Card always gives you more for money. Easy to upgrade.

There is now a Razor Barracuda Rs 10k soundcard. Anyone heard that? (theitdepot.com)

Driver and other problems reported for Creative cards. In general ASUS cards give better value for money.

But they dont have the musicality of M-Audio. Perhaps you can go for M-Audio 192 (has snr of 108)

Have a nice day.

"Man I got vision. The rest of the world wears bifocals"

 

[humblebee]

The Dark Knight Rises

Finally we reach the Software.
The other half in the Von Neumann architecture.

If you really understood and got the kick from what I explained in Computer Architecture, the importance of Software will not have to be explained.

All that you do on the computer, you do through Software.

Software is of 2 types :-
1) System Software - Windows Vista or FreeBSD for sick fun + drivers etc
2) Application Software - PotPlayer (isnt that an improved version of the KMPlayer of older days?) + iTunes (You can configure bit rate in this. I found its sound good).

I would urge you to spend some money (apni jeben jhaad bhaiya) on at least these software:
- Buy it if you use Windows. Its pretty afordable now. Regular updates will solve those cryptic problems. + Unpatched Security holes will one day get exploited and put your data to risk.

- AntiVirus - MS Security Essentials is your free friend. But God knows what all data it will send to MS. On last check Avira/Norton/Bitdefender/Kaspersky were good. av-comparatives.org is your friend. (Anti Virus comparisons there)
Again, get together and buy the 3/5/10 user packs. For the price of Regular AV you will get the highest All-in-one version. Norton 360 was great till it lasted. (Rs 4500 for 10 user pack !!! Check its single user price)

- MS Office. Get the 3 PC pack for Rs 3500 (Office 2010). 3 friends can share 3 licences. Cost? Just Rs 1166 for each. Or put it into 3 systems.


Regarding Playback, I like Nero. I have Nero 12 Full version (Not Platinum).
Again, I got the 3-user pack. Costed me Rs 5500 only. Check their online shop thoroughly. Video quality is as good and better than PotPlayer. Definitely better than MPC-HC or VideoLAn. Plus other Softwares are included in the bundle:
- Nero BackItUp - good for backing up data to that external or extra HDD.
- Nero Burning ROM/Express - Has the Nero SecureDisc feature that can burn extra secure disc that has more reliable readability. We know we want to preserve those Photos for life. But cant prepare commercial grade CDs. This is a good option.
- Nero Recode - Video and audio format conversions. One click DVD ripping.
- Nero Rescue Agent - Data rescue that has been deleted.
- Nero Video - Edit those camera videos. Make new videos. Make DVDs. I think we should be able to write those AVCHD camera videos onto DVDs with this.

All in all I find this very value for money. Esp for Rs 5500/3.
(God I hope my identity remains safe)

- An ethical request to end it all - at least to the programmer bhais - yaar software banaate ho par khud apne compu pe pirated Windows use karte ho? Jab aadmi khud apne kaam ki value nahi karega to kaun karega?


"Now we come here not as Conqueres but as Liberators"

 

[RMCWS]

Great effort humblebee. Just a question, why would anyone want a MS office in a HTPC (a dedicated setup for audio and video)? Won't installing more software will make the unit slower? Please pardon my ignorance.

 

[gangasjith]

Do HTPC requires an Amp?

 

[haisaikat]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Regarding Playback, I like Nero. I have Nero 12 Full version (Not Platinum).
Again, I got the 3-user pack. Costed me Rs 5500 only. Check their online shop thoroughly. Video quality is as good and better than PotPlayer. Definitely better than MPC-HC or VideoLAn.

Is that true? can you please elaborate your perceptions around this in details?

 

[humblebee]

What Dreams May Come

- RMCWS - Oh I was just saying that MS Office is pretty affordable now so consider buying it instead of pirating. And if Media Centre is the only system, then one will eventually install. Bonus: You get OneNote - put all your notes there. No more lost txt files where you store bits of info. Its become THE most useful SW of the bundle for me. Office Home & Student has Word, Excel, Powerpoint & OneNote.

- gangasjith - if you buy Edifier DAPro or S550 or a 5.1 from like F&D, Logitech etc, then Amp is built in the Subwoofer box. But in costly models of proper Audio companies, you have to buy separate Amp or AVR.

- haisaikat - I had done a comparison some time back after configuring MPC-HC to the best guide I could find on the net with Nero. I had found Nero better. Also with XBMC. Here I post pic of it with PotPlayer. A DVDRip is used at 1:1 so that improvements to a low quality video maybe observed more easily. I find Nero better in colour, brightness & sharpness here.


"Remember me. I still exist. I still exist. I still exist"

 

[humblebee]

The full image is available generally. Why not here?

 

[humblebee]

There and Back Again

 

[humblebee]

One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

Regarding Interface or User Experience.

I have done some simple tinkering with Emerge Desktop. Its a Shell Replacement.

I tried to have an interface experience where:
a) On windows startup, one would get Options (with pics) on screen that would say
- Music
- Movies
- Internet
- Explorer
Idea was to simulate the look of an electronic branded devices and so further remove the feeling of "Its a computer"
This was done by creating four logins. You can obviously create as many as suits your wishes. They were allocated the related pics (available while creating windows user)

b) On clicking any one, a screen would appear that would get the interface that would allow one to do the selected choice.
This was achieved by putting the related software's shortcut in startup folder. + Taking a screenshot of that software interface and setting it as wallpaper.
Effect was that - for e.g if you use Mufin Player for music, on clicking music, whole screen would appear to have only Mufin Player (taskbar can be removed) but not 'live' and an hourglass followed few seconds by the player becoming 'live' (as the software appears on screen exactly on top of the wallpaper as is; so that no screen change is detected)
This also means that you would only use that particular software and none other to get that electronic device feel (The feel didn't come immediately but after some time of using it, it did). I think I was also able to disable the launch of any other software by using features & some tricks. I think I also disabled Alt+Tab. (startup position of software was such that top window bar was above clicking so no minimize and resize also). Effect was that the screen was basically unchangeable. To get that true single software effect.
This was my 'music mode'. Longer term plan was to disable unusable services, windows programs, use idle computing power to somehow enhance music quality etc.

c) The Explorer was for general tasks (copy files / rip CDs). The Windows Explorer was disabled. The 7-zip explorer was used instead.

Coupled with startup custom photo, the only reminder that this was a computer was the "Starting Windows" screen.

d) I found that this worked when I planned to limit the system to only a few functionalities (e.g. like the ones mentioned above). If I wanted to use Other SW that i needed (like Office or other specialized ones) another approach was tried.
One can create a single (or no) login and in that create a launch bar (that can start software of your choice with their logos) and place it wherever one likes. I placed it at the top.
"Theres a Windows in there" feel was eliminated to an acceptable degree here too.

Other minor optimizations were also done that I dont remember now as this was 2+ years back..
And many deeper ones im sure, that I didnt try, limited only by your creativity.

All this was tried with Emerge Desktop successfully.

I have also tried esobi as a news reader.

"Medication Time. Medication Time."

 

[maniac_2004]

Hi Humblebee ,
what is a good 450W PSU that you recommend ? Or is Cooler Master 350W enough ?
Regards