Tannoy Westminster

[jls001]

Sorry for butting in again, but the above posts imply that even the instruments tonality can be different depending upon the person playing it and the playing style as well...So again how do we determine what is the true tonality of an instrument with which we compare the sound coming out from the audio equipment????? The benchmarks seem to be very subjective as well as the equipment...

@Panditji: IMHO it is not possible to say such and such is the standard sound or tonality of a type of musical instrument.

For example, a 17th century Stradivari violin played by Joshua Bell is supposed to sound better to a connoisseur than top rung modern equivalents.

Or the sound of an Ovation acoustic cutout guitar has its own tonality and is different than, say a Fender or Takamine or Yamaha acoustic guitars. And the tonality changes entirely if gut or nylon strings are used.

And the tonalities of different makes of pianos definitely differ, else no one would be spending on a 9 foot Steinway & Sons, or a grand Yamaha acoustic.

Here I'm talking about tonality at the more micro end of the scale. At the more macro level, I agree that one violin sounds similar to any other, etc.

When one considers amplified music, for example guitars, the variation is so great, but most continue to be recognisable as a guitar. Consider how different the tones of guitarists differ - the warm and "phat" tone of George Benson, the warm but not overly warm tone of Steve Morse (Deep Purple, Kansas, Steve Morse Band), the rather neutral sounding tone of Steve Vai, or the fuzzy tone of Malmsteen or Saul Hudson (aka Slash), etc. All these courtesy intentional and controlled distortions, a.k.a. guitar effects processors.

My point being that it is futile to try and pin an exact tonality to an instrument.

PS: sorry for taking this totally on a tangent. Now back to the Westminster.

 

[panditji]

Thanks jls001 for your detailed explanation...I guess since I do not play any instrument and have never really listened attentively to the different instruments other than the tune of the song, I cannot understand the fuss made over the tonality of instruments....Maybe others listen differently and pay more attention to the individual instruments....To each to their own...

 

[prem]

I have not really heard the new Tannoys but i know Tannoys are used in studios for monitoring. These studio monitors also use concentric drivers. The fact they are used in studios would mean they cannot be too coloured. IIRC, Doug Sax, one of the best mastering engineers, uses Tannoy monitors in his studio

 

[Staxxx]

I too haven't heard the Prestige series as yet. Really would like to do so ...anyone know of a pair of big ones in Bangalore pls???

 

[Dr.Bass]

Let me just put it this way, I have heard speakers which are more neutral than Tannoy Prestige line, however I will not need more than one hand to count them all. Some of those speakers are my absolute reference but I do not have the means to own them. Tannoy on the other hand goes a long way in that direction without costing anything close to those untouchables, barring Westminister and Kingdom Royal which stray upon that esoteric price zone, just about.

 

[stevieboy]

I have not really heard the new Tannoys but i know Tannoys are used in studios for monitoring. These studio monitors also use concentric drivers. The fact they are used in studios would mean they cannot be too coloured. IIRC, Doug Sax, one of the best mastering engineers, uses Tannoy monitors in his studio

Altecs used in studio monitoring in the days of old were colourful. As colourful as a 70s hippie at Woodstock. Definitely not neutral. Apparently they were predominant across most studios and the mixing guys 'knew' the sound of Altecs, and hence did not have to recalibrate their ears to a new speaker set up. This probably had a cascading effect that caused more studios to install Altecs since the guys doing the mixing preferred a standard they were used to. They could move from studio to studio and have the same sound being output through the same speakers in different places and mix taking into account what the altecs did and did not do. Well at least that's the folklore. So being a studio monitor itself is no guarantee of being neutral

Regards

 

[Dr.Bass]

Thanks jls001 for your detailed explanation...I guess since I do not play any instrument and have never really listened attentively to the different instruments other than the tune of the song, I cannot understand the fuss made over the tonality of instruments....Maybe others listen differently and pay more attention to the individual instruments....To each to their own...

It is not as complicated as it seems panditji. I have never heard Mohd Rafi live, but still when you hear him on two different systems, in most cases you would be able to say which system portrayed his voice more honestly. Now, if you have not listened to him then of course it seems complicated. Same goes for Guitar, Piano, Sitar or Tabla. The system should not mess with the tones at the macro level. For that the system should be able to keep the harmonic structures intact. Only the most accomplished ones go to the next level of revealing the little micro shadings embedded within. In most cases you do not even that level of resolution to identify a Steinway Piano from a Yamaha Grand. Unfortunately many systems fail to achieve the basic tonal accuracy in the first place, and that is an easy give away of colouration.

 

[gireesh]

Please look at the quote above in bold. Many high end systems overemphasize some aspects - this has been precisely my experience. That's why a direct experience as you had is so important. But I agree, everybody does not get that opportunity.

As for the post by Staxx, I must say any struck or plucked string instrument is the hardest to reproduce including guitar, piano, sitar, sarod etc. The impact of the plucking and the extension of the sound thereafter is not easy. Reproducing the full spectrum of the piano keys, including the depth of the lower notes and the sparkle of the higher notes is one of the hardest I feel. For myself, I do not take only the Sarod sound for reference, I also use sitar, vocals etc for my reference. And just as Ravishankar's sitar has a very different sound from Vilayat Khan's, or for that matter Nikhil Banerjee's, all vocalits too have different tonality. BTW, I made a special mention of the Ali Akabr sarod, because his sarod tonality was special, very deep and full and a great impact of the plucking. As a result, strings used to break in the middle of a concert, but he was such an expert in rewiring his sarod, he used to put in a new string within a max of half a minute. But all that trouble was worth it - such was the tonality of his sarod. Amjad Ali, in contrast, has a very different technique, and at the same time he is an excellent player of the instrument, but the tonality is a lot lighter.

As Arjun has written, reproducing the correct tonality is difficult and the most important.

Regards.

Dear Asit,
i am learning Sarod from one of the senior student of Pt. Umashankar Mishra and Dr. Rajeev Taranath. i am finding it difficult to get a good headphone for listening the concert/studio recordings of Khansaheb and of course Dr. Taranathji. The problem is, none of the headphone I have checked using my laptop and pmp sounds as natural as my Guruji playing on his Sarod in my classroom sessions. As you can judge, I am not having any very high quality pricy devices, please suggest me a decent headphone which is under rs 10k ..
I had googled to find out below are uncolored headphone which are closely around 10k
1. Sennheiser hd 280 pro
2. ATH M50
3. Shure SRH440
4. Sony MDR 7506
I am able to test (again with my PMP and Laptop!) only Sennheiser hd 280 pro in noisy SP Road shop, not very sure about how it will sound in quite room.

 

[bhagwan]

@ Gireesh - will this help :-

The Best Headphones Of 2013 - Forbes

Some may be available - some may not - but just look around;

 

[arj]

Dear Asit,
i am learning Sarod from one of the senior student of Pt. Umashankar Mishra and Dr. Rajeev Taranath. i am finding it difficult to get a good headphone for listening the concert/studio recordings of Khansaheb and of course Dr. Taranathji. The problem is, none of the headphone I have checked using my laptop and pmp sounds as natural as my Guruji playing on his Sarod in my classroom sessions. As you can judge, I am not having any very high quality pricy devices, please suggest me a decent headphone which is under rs 10k ..
I had googled to find out below are uncolored headphone which are closely around 10k
1. Sennheiser hd 280 pro
2. ATH M50
3. Shure SRH440
4. Sony MDR 7506
I am able to test (again with my PMP and Laptop!) only Sennheiser hd 280 pro in noisy SP Road shop, not very sure about how it will sound in quite room.

gireesh, when playing out of a laptop, the problem component may not be your headphone but your Laptops headphone output. you may just get a better sound from the cheaper ipods.. if you can try playing the same headphones from that you may get a better picture

the other option is to use a good USB Headphone amp which does a much better job. am sure some of the FMs here will have better suggestions for you.

i suggest creating a new thread for that.. or look around in this sub forum

as you go higher it is the resolution which improves..but you should get natural sounding output from some of the headphones you have listed.

since you learn music your ear may be a lot more evolved in detecting this than many of us (at least me ). Asit da is of course a talented musician himself.

 

[cyber_cat]

I am able to test (again with my PMP and Laptop!) only Sennheiser hd 280 pro in noisy SP Road shop, not very sure about how it will sound in quite room.

Hi, which shop in SP road did u test. can you please tell me ?

 

[gireesh]

hi,
it is golcha computers...
if i remember correctly they maintain an exclusive sennheiser shop in cunningham road.
there website -
Pro Audio - Golchha Computers