The issue of repeat-query

[sonosphere]

Hi everybody,
I have seen some instances where a member posts a query and the next moment the poster faces a series of hard-responses. To highlight this issue I am presenting poster's position on these responses below:

- Response: This topic has been done to death, please search before posting.
(poster's position-1: Search? What search? I just joined after reading the forum rules and posted query. Didn't find any rule that says I can't post a query unless I have thoroughly used search. Where is this search anyway. If it is so important, it should be on top of homepage with biggest font along with useage-guidelines.

(poster's position-2: Whatever search I did, it didn't give me relevant result, hence I am posting here)

- Response: Such repeat queries are cluttering the forum. This issue has been discussed in great detail in 20 pages on this link xxxxxx.
(poster's position: Clutter? what clutter? I just joined and I didn't see a single post like this in Amplifier section page. Can I expect some gentlemen to directly give the answer if they know it, as that 20-page discussion is not my field of interest, I just need to know what speakers are generally recommended to go with that amp, so I can test & buy one of them and enjoy music directly.

- Response: You should have posted this in series of another similar post, already existing.
(poster's position: The other post may relate to the similar topic, but has a slightly different objective, hence I am posting my objective separately)

- Response: Don't expect us to spoon-feed you. Do the search you will find it.
(poster's position: I am not demanding anything here, its a request. I thought this was a voluntary forum. People who have time to volunteer with query-answers can do that without feeling irritated. You can always choose to ignore my query, and avoid passing harsh remark)

I would club the above cases under "perceived" repeat-query situation. I believe most would conclude by reading above, that the poster's don't intend to be lazy in using search function. Different reasons are playing part here to create the same situation.

I suggest we respond to such cases with compassion rather than with curt /blunt /irritated replies. (After a hard day at work, I am sometimes not the most compassionate person to talk to, however knowing my state, I choose to remain silent during that period)

Regds,

 

[spirovious]

I wonder if new members will ever read this thread too.They are after there queries & will not take efferts to search.

 

[venkatcr]

I am writing this as a member and not as a moderator.

Sonos, the issue is a little more, shall we say, weird. HFV is like any club. We have some 1500 odd members. The majority of them are what I call passive members. They just come here everyday, read a few threads, and go away. There are also a very very large number of non-members who visit the site to get the information they want.

If you search the forum, in most cases, you can get bulk of your answer easily. After all the search is powered by Google. Literally every aspect of AV has been discussed and I doubt if there is single topic that has been left alone. What gets on the nerves of most of us is the same question repeated by people who do not want to take any effort. I become a member, post a question, and then disappear. If you count the regular contributors, there would be a hundred or so. What is also galling is that many new members give half baked answers, and lead to an argument on silly topics.

Though I understand that though, in any human interaction, there will be difference of views, we are not talking about philosophy here. There is a large amount of science involved here, and there should never be any argument on that.

I have discussed this with many of the regular contributors. The general plan is to ignore threads that do not interest you. This is not a good sign, but for lack of other ways of handling this, what else can be done?

One way is to moderate every new thread. If the thread has an interesting topic, we will allow it to be posted. Else, we will just point the OP to an existing thread. This needs huge effort from the moderator's side.

The other way is to create an exhaustive FAQ. It is just that there is no guarantee someone will not just ignore the FAQ and create threads in any case.

I did start developing a FAQ, and I would welcome contributions both in terms of questions and answers. I would also welcome suggestions on how to improve the interaction in HFV.

I wholeheartedly agree that we have to be civil to everyone.

Cheers

 

[spirovious]

There is one way if software permits,
If new member(even old) trries to post any new thread,SW atomatically will search for similar threads/posts & display the results.Then member has to tick the option like I am aware OR similar,then only the thread will be get posted.

eg-speakers for Denon 1911 & similar other options/threads will be displayed before posting.

 

[sonosphere]

Hi Venkatcr,
Thanks for detailed explanation. I have some random points /suggestions in mind that may improve the situation. will organize them and post soon.
Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[sonosphere]

There is one way if software permits,
If new member(even old) trries to post any new thread,SW atomatically will search for similar threads/posts & display the results.Then member has to tick the option like I am aware OR similar,then only actually thread will be get posted.

eg-speakers for Denon 1911 & similar other options/threads will be displayed before posting.

Spiro,
Great idea actually. I hope this can be done.
Regds,

 

[GeorgeO]

I can share my experience as an expert on another well known forum, this is something that recurs there as well. On HifiV we have not only passive members but some who voice an opinion on all topics-whether they have any expertise or not!

I think we just have to live with it.

 

[keith_correa]

I can share my experience as an expert on another well known forum, this is something that recurs there as well.

George, this is funny. I was just thinking on ways this statement of yours could be [mis]interpreted.

1. In another well known forum, there, you are considered to be an "expert"
2. In another well known forum, there, you claim to be an "expert"
3. You have expertise in another well known forum
4. You will share your experience on another well known forum in the position of an "expert"

So, because I posted this, you may safely slot me into this bracket:

some who voice an opinion on all topics-whether they have any expertise or not

:lol:

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I suggest we respond to such cases with compassion rather than with curt /blunt /irritated replies.

You are right, but there are limits where the basics are concerned. Join a travel forum, as a foreigner, and ask if you need a visa to visit India: however friendly, you'll find that you stepped over the line with both feet (horribly mixed metaphor).

The last time we did this, I think it was pointed out that those of us who habitually answer the same question many times are just as much to blame for redundant threads as those who do the asking. I accept that.

If the mods have manpower and time, then I think that simply repeated enquiries like 2.1 speaker systems for computers (embarrassment from me again) could simply be shifted to an ongoing thread, or pointed at that thread. It is not an unfriendly reaction, in fact, it is a method of helping. There a few who join a forum with the attitude that it works by their rules, not the other way around: they will see any such action as wrong in one way or another. Tough!

It depends on the moderation policy and the ability to put in the hours.

 

[GeorgeO]

Keith

I'm going to consider you an expert (mis)interpreter from now on

Cheers

 

[sonosphere]

...
I wholeheartedly agree that we have to be civil to everyone.

Cheers

Dear Venkatcr, fellow members,
I would like to believe that everyone else also agrees to Venkatcr's quote above. I would further believe that no one has issue with the poster's positions on the repeat-queries mentioned in my original post, and that those cases of repeat-queries are not a consequence of poster's laziness.

Now setting aside above cases, we are left with cases where the poster is actually feeling lazy and hence directly posts a query, knowing fully well that there's a chance that its been answered before. To reduce such cases I suggest:

a. We add to "HFV terms" that the posters should search the forum before posting queries. While rare occurrences of repeat-queries can be exempted, frequent cases would invite xyz action.

b. We should add Text-banner at prominent location on home-page urging members to search before posting query. On this banner we should also add link to a Search-tutorial that would explain how to use various filters to get desired result and additionally educate members regarding the benefit of using search for their own sake (faster results!) and for HFV's sake (un-cluttered posts, less posts but unique posts)

c. Spiro's suggestion in post# 4 above

Request other members to chip in with suggestions or express agreement to above suggestions, so the Mods can make appropriate changes in HFV site.

Regds,

 

[GeorgeO]

Sonosphere's suggestions bear merit keeping in mind the growth in membership and traffic on this forum. We dont want to drowned in repeat queries!

 

[square_wave]

There is another side to this whole thing. I will post couple of my views on this below.

- The view that almost all aspects on AV have been discussed effectively on this forum is a fallacy. It is only when a poster shows a certain degree of maturity or focus will the right people join for a meaningful discussion of the same. On this forum, there are very few such threads. One very good example is Asits amplifier thread. The fact is that if the poster is really serious and focused about what he wants, there are voluminous amount of things that can still be discussed. A search will just precipitate some random discussions. Although I feel that a search is required before posting, I can assure you that for some it may not work !

- The view that it is mostly science and there can be no argument about it. Sorry, not true! While it is science that is behind all this, what is completely understood and measured and in agreement among the various camps in audio are very few. A lot of things in audio are a black art. Hence there will be arguments and disagreements even about things related to science in audio. Hence there will be new posts even if some high priest has already passed judgment on it on another thread.

- FAQs will work only on manufacturers websites where all variables related to the gear which they sell is known and understood. FAQs which give answers to questions related to straightforward things like connections and scientific aspects like power, wattage, speaker placements etc are okay. Once you get into the realm of subjective issues FAQs are useless. Hence there will be new posts even if subjective issues are discussed on a FAQ.

- Forums will evolve continuously. New members will join and may have different opinions on the same thing which have been discussed earlier. Or a member may want to opinions from some specific members on the forum about things which only they have experience with. Or some members may not have participated in an earlier discussion about the same. They may want their opinion. The reasons are endless !

 

[nshankar]

To each his own. Everything in the Audiophile/Videophile world is subjective.

What one likes may be hated by another, and the gear that sounds fabulous in one room may be awful in another!

For a noob, searching the forum does not help. Every noob will post his desire to own the best setup and will expect some experienced helping hands to guide him throughout his journey.

Therefore, IMHO, in a forum like this, repeat queries cannot be avoided. FAQs as suggested may be a good starting point, for e.g., could encourage the OP to post a pic of his room, specify the room size, the genre of music he loves to hear, budget etc in the first instance so that he would hopefully start receiving guidance rather than more questions.

The above are just my random thoughts for consideration.

 

[captrajesh]

What one likes may be hated by another, and the gear that sounds fabulous in one room may be awful in another!

Every noob will post his desire to own the best setup and will expect some experienced helping hands to guide him throughout his journey.

Don't you think the above two statements are contradictory? While I agree with the 1st statement, how will a noob get what he wants by posting a fresh query rather than going through existing threads?

@sonosphere: I do agree that one should be courteous to others but if you notice, many newbies searching for some information find the forum from google search, join it because he cannot post the query otherwise, posts a query and doesn't bother to search in the forum for requisite information (as the forum is only one of the inputs he would be getting as far as he is concerned) gets the information and then vanishes. So what do you expect the regular forum member to do?

 

[sonosphere]

....

@sonosphere: .... So what do you expect the regular forum member to do?

Hi Capt,
Depending on the forum member's temperament, the regular forum member may choose to be a "saint" and offer advice without the reciprocal expectation that the poster may thank him, or ever login to forum again OR he can choose to ignore the query. What the regular member shouldn't do is pass an unpleasant "sounding" remark.

We should be hopeful that for every 10 lazy repeat-posters there would be one convert among them who would ultimately empathize with concerns of HFV and turn into a contributing member in future. Unpleasant remarks may end up scaring away such "potential" contributing members. The forum should have feel of a family... even one time guests should be treated with warmth.

I hope this didn't sound too preachy... just expressing my feeling.

Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[sonosphere]

There is another side to this whole thing. I will post couple of my views on this below....

To each his own. Everything in the Audiophile/Videophile world is subjective....

Hi square_wave, nshankar,
I was about to post the same comments that are in your post. Its almost like telepathy. Thanks for the posts. You saved me lot of typing:lol:

I have some more comments. getting late. will post tomorrow.

Regds,

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Hi Capt,
Depending on the forum member's temperament, the regular forum member may choose to be a "saint" and offer advice without the reciprocal expectation that the poster may thank him, or ever login to forum again OR he can choose to ignore the query. What the regular member shouldn't do is pass an unpleasant "sounding" remark.

Education is good too, and is a third option. The said forum member can point out that there are several threads on the topic already. If particularly saintly, he could even link to one or two! One can do this without sounding unpleasant

 

[captrajesh]

It is only when a poster shows a certain degree of maturity or focus will the right people join for a meaningful discussion of the same.

Hmm, good point.

Depending on the forum member's temperament, the regular forum member may choose to be a "saint" and offer advice without the reciprocal expectation that the poster may thank him, or ever login to forum again OR he can choose to ignore the query. What the regular member shouldn't do is pass an unpleasant "sounding" remark.

Unpleasant remarks may end up scaring away such "potential" contributing members. The forum should have feel of a family... even one time guests should be treated with warmth.

Education is good too, and is a third option. The said forum member can point out that there are several threads on the topic already. If particularly saintly, he could even link to one or two! One can do this without sounding unpleasant

OK, I get your point. I'm not an expert by any stretch of imagination (just gathered little knowledge from the forum, books, people, net & personal experience) but if I see that the poster has not done his homework, I choose not to participate in that thread.

I'm not saying that being unpleasant to such people is OK but can empathise with some members whom I see snapping at lazy posters as they take their job (of advising) quite seriously.hyeah:

I hope this didn't sound too preachy