D
Deleted member 15865
Guest
Castle Knight is nowhere a reference in refinement, even in its price range. Even so, its tweeter sits flush, though not the woofer. Also, its baffle edges are rounded.
The Midrange and detail king - Diamond Mishra, Indiqaudio - Review
- Thread starter Thirumalkumaran
- Start date
Vineethkumar01
Well-Known Member
Hi,
I don't have any animosity towards this brand or any other
I hold in high regard what a company like indiq is trying to do on the indian market, especially the customer service part. If my discussions above about a simple design choice came across as if it was a reaction of something personal that the brand has done to me, it is unintended. I apologize if my words came across as harsh.
My academic training has taught me to question things especially engineering design choices in areas that i know of and engage in discussions to learn more. I am of the opinion that it drives innovation and is healthy as long as it is being done in a civil manner. Personally, i dont care about any particular brand of speakers being superior or inferior to any other. All is a trade off and when done properly, it yields results that one can live with.
My only intention in engaging this discussion was that after so many people buying their products, if a company with great potential such as indiq starts to refine their product as per the subjective and objective feedback received by us, it would only be better for all of us.
Regarding the effects of edge diffraction, what i stated is simple physics to the extent i know of. But my knowledge is limited. So if somebody explains to me about why the specific choice of a surface mounted tweeter works (may be psychoacoustically, we have a preference for it??), i will gladly accept it and go on my way. Anyway, i will stop commenting about all this in post right away if that is required. Once again i apologize if i came across as harsh.
Thanks
Vineeth
Yes, their exports amps and also consulting other speaker cos and involved in audio business...IITD also helps
Disclaimer, I dont know anyone in Indiq and neither have I owned or heard any of their products but along with Lyrita, Rethm, Acoustic portrait give a great option to those in India and some of them will only improve over time and should easily be in contention compared to any other imported speakers
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D
Deleted member 15865
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I didn’t sense even a hint of that emotion in @Vineethkumar01’s posts. He is coming from a designer’s mindset, and seems to be aiming for learning and development. And it’s helping non-technical users like me understand some aspects of design that eventually impact what we are listening. He has been objective and has restricted his observations/opinions to certain aspects of the design and has nowhere made any generalised statement/value judgment on the speakers or their performance. Unfortunately, critical thinking is sometimes misunderstood as criticism. But hate?
That’d be sad. As a group we should have an openness towards well-intentioned and well-conducted critical arguments. ‘Learning’ should precede ‘pride’ as a value for the forum to keep evolving.
I also appreciate how some of the Indiq users are taking this conversation in the right spirit.
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I agree with you @SachinChavan . Nothing wrong with what Vineethkumar01 wrote but just brings the realities of Social media communication where the intent is not translated and people have to guess the intent base don the words they read and their own interpretation
so @Prodigy its clear Vineethkumar01 has no malafide intentions and @Vineethkumar01 please continue your questions as it only leads to the betterment of the groups understanding of the product.
so @Prodigy its clear Vineethkumar01 has no malafide intentions and @Vineethkumar01 please continue your questions as it only leads to the betterment of the groups understanding of the product.
Sachin, I stand corrected. It’s not testament to its sound quality. It’s more a testament to its popularity which could be a result of several factors. Customer service, sound quality, price, etc, etc. Though logically I would assume sound quality would be one of the main factors.
From whatever little of the clips I have heard of Indiqaudio speakers, the one thing that differentiates it a bit from other speakers in that price range is the clarity. And I think it is this quality which is wowing the listeners. This is not surprising considering the background of the founder, Mr Jain, who has largely been associated with design of PA amplifiers and speakers.
From whatever little of the clips I have heard of Indiqaudio speakers, the one thing that differentiates it a bit from other speakers in that price range is the clarity. And I think it is this quality which is wowing the listeners. This is not surprising considering the background of the founder, Mr Jain, who has largely been associated with design of PA amplifiers and speakers.
Not commenting or questioning on the refinement or accuracy of any of the mentioned brands. Question was just on understanding the impact of the mounting design as some of brands still preferred doing it the other way. Kannan has pointed out on how Dynaudio places their tweeters , that's exactly what I wanted to know across brands possibly just to better my understanding.
Thirumalkumaran
Active Member
I would like to add some points.
Any field will have its own theories and practices.
I come from a manufacturing background, and let me give my experience.
Many places we deviate from text book or theory and have yielded way better results. (Particularly Machining of Super alloys)
We never say it is wrong. A proper academic training makes us to think why this worked even though it deviates a standard practice, yet yielded a good result, Than bringing the whole library of books and saying its not right because it didn't follow it!
Just to remind, there are instances where a concept is in practice, but later it was brought in books (Many management theories).
Why are we not thinking why Indiq speakers sounds good? with all these deviations?
we start hating because we are bound by principles specified in a book? or a webpage? or a forum member thinks its not?
I would request the personnel to audition the speakers in a practical environment than trying to conclude it doesn't look good on paper!
(BTW, me or many indiq owners have auditioned a lot of speakers before finalizing on this. its not that we haven't heard anything else!)
I'm still moved by @arj 's signature. Is there a chance that we are measuring something wrong, though it sounds good?
Any field will have its own theories and practices.
I come from a manufacturing background, and let me give my experience.
Many places we deviate from text book or theory and have yielded way better results. (Particularly Machining of Super alloys)
We never say it is wrong. A proper academic training makes us to think why this worked even though it deviates a standard practice, yet yielded a good result, Than bringing the whole library of books and saying its not right because it didn't follow it!
Just to remind, there are instances where a concept is in practice, but later it was brought in books (Many management theories).
Why are we not thinking why Indiq speakers sounds good? with all these deviations?
we start hating because we are bound by principles specified in a book? or a webpage? or a forum member thinks its not?
I would request the personnel to audition the speakers in a practical environment than trying to conclude it doesn't look good on paper!
(BTW, me or many indiq owners have auditioned a lot of speakers before finalizing on this. its not that we haven't heard anything else!)
I'm still moved by @arj 's signature. Is there a chance that we are measuring something wrong, though it sounds good?
D
Deleted member 15865
Guest
And who’s to say they won’t sound even better if the design principles being discussed are integrated? Since your are from manufacturing background, you’d understand that continuous improvement doesn’t imply unfavourable assessment.
If you perceive anything in the pages till now as ‘hate’, you need to check your own bias.
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Thirumalkumaran
Active Member
There are lot of places when the so called Tech experts intervened saying similarly and junked a 54L engine part! (They have no clue which path the process is going!)
What it looks so far, is not curiosity to learn but question the working model because its not in books.
Vineethkumar01
Well-Known Member
I am very sorry if this all started out as a friendly conversation and turned into a nightmare like this.
I dont claim to be an expert in speaker design. My knowledge in that area is less. I only stuck to some basic principles for asking questions i asked. If i came across as rude, i am sorry and that was never the intention.
In case my technical qualifications are doubtful in regards to asking such questions, this is me:
All my questions are driven by my experience in signal processing for the past decade or so in academia and industry.
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
I agree. He has been very balanced in his questions. I wish I were like him in my online interactions.
Just goes to reaffirm what I said in my post about steering a conversation tangentially.Unfortunately, critical thinking is sometimes misunderstood as criticism, but hate?
1. I like, therefore you should not question what I like.
2. Despite this, if you question what I like I condemn you to rot in hell!
I do not appreciate how some have twisted our basic questions to infer/assume/conclude that my/our opinion is:
1. The speakers don't sound good the way they are.
2. One must pore across graphs and charts to determine sonics.
3. Indiq Audio speakers don't sound well with whiskey but only with Rooh Afza.
4. All customers of Indiq Audio are fools for purchasing their products.
5. Sound does not matter, graphs do.
6. Purchases must be based on graphs/charts.
7. We hate Indiq Audio. Why? Because we hate anyone succeeding. Most of all an Indian company. Also because they don't flush mount a tweeter. What anti-nationals we must be!
I entered this conversation because I was curious about the surface mounting of the tweeter and when @balavignesh002 said he was a customer, said he was a speaker designer and also said he interacted with the owner, I assumed that he would have asked about the rationale behind surface mounting. I know I would.
Now, diffraction by itself either could be in an objectionable range and audible or not. If the latter, then, all is OK with the world. BUT, someone needs to say that aloud. Instead what we got as "answers" to a very basic question wasn't an answer but on the other hand raised more questions. Which we asked. Which mysteriously has been morphed into "hate". Bizarre to say the least.
Anyways, I think I've stirred the pot enough. I don't wish to be part of any discussion which eventually degenerates into whataboutery and name calling because our questions do not fit into your belief system. Goodbye and good riddance to me!
@arj , Sir I agree and I am not against any of the messages what @Vineethkumar01 posted. Like you said it may not have any malafide intentions here but let me just quote this.
<deleted>
Regards,
Som
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Well I really find the emotions caused interesting. lets remember in the end it is just a speaker and not a relative
I can understand if the Owners/Manufacturer wants to clarify with technical data but countering a technical question with an emotional response does not solve it..it either needs a technical answer or a "I dont know but I still like it and its my money " answer
Anyone in the forum can choose to write whenever he or she pleases and lets not question that hence edited that portion out since it is a personal comment on intent
I can understand if the Owners/Manufacturer wants to clarify with technical data but countering a technical question with an emotional response does not solve it..it either needs a technical answer or a "I dont know but I still like it and its my money " answer
Anyone in the forum can choose to write whenever he or she pleases and lets not question that hence edited that portion out since it is a personal comment on intent
I don’t want to comment anymore but you know what I meant is right. Hence it was removed. But nevertheless, it is what it is.Well I really find the emotions caused interesting. lets remember in the end it is just a speaker and not a relative
I can understand if the Owners/Manufacturer wants to clarify with technical data but countering a technical question with an emotional response does not solve it..it either needs a technical answer or a "I dont know but I still like it and its my money " answer
Anyone in the forum can choose to write whenever he or she pleases and lets not question that hence edited that portion out since it is a personal comment on intent
Regards,
Som
What an interesting thread! I notice there are three types of participants in this (and other Indiq Audio threads).
(a) People who have been impressed with IA products. These are the people who heard of it from others. Auditioned it, went through the whole rigor that anyone does before parting with their hard-earned money. They made a purchase decision after due diligence, purchased it, and are very happy with their purchase. They are often pushed for writing about their experiences. Though most of them are happy with their stuff even if they are not writing about it.
(b) People who were/are sceptic of the praise Indiq Audio has been getting. Who have kind of begun believing that the phenomenon could be true. And have begun admitting it, albeit in a guarded manner. Fence-sitter comes to the mind, except they are just a part of the wider-audience, not potential buyers.
(c) The people who are questioning this popularity. They seem to be totally failing to comprehend how can an Indian startup get such kind of word-of-mouth. In this thread (and others on the topic of Indiq Audio products), there are a large number of questions from this group which has no intention of buying one, is not even in the market for a product of this class. They only seem interested in questioning the legitimacy of these products and the popularity they are earning.
This group doesn't care if in the process their own last resort phrase of choice - "but it sounds good to my ears", "it's working for me though", "in my room, in my setup, it made a difference", "measurements mean zilch" - are conveniently ignored. For this group, it seems, those are not valid arguments when it comes to these products.
Not too long ago, in another thread, a company X vs company Y comparison was force inserted (in a thread where it was not called for), the reason? The justification was that the company Y product sounds nearly as good as the company X product (that the OP wanted to talk about), but it's available much cheaper, hence the company Y product represents a better value and is a smarter buy. In this thread though, better value doesn't seem to be a relevant criterion.
Similarly, we often talk about post-sale customer support. A product with a better level of post-sale support often earns a higher recommendation. Even that argument is declared a non-important matter in this thread. I can't help wonder why?
Is this because the product is by an Indian startup? Because the owner is not on this forum, doesn't share a bro-code with certain members here? Because the people who are buying the Indiq Audio products are playing in the entry-level end of the field? Because the Indiq Audio owners are not established audiophiles with a long history of cable-swaps, with long stories about how they have gone through N number of components in the search of their holy grail of sound?
Why are some members so dismissive of Indiq Audio product is hard to fathom. FM @keith_correa made a pertinent post above. I quote.
I can applaud that post all day long. We all want to hear what we think is true. Any opinion to the contrary is subject to a hurried dismissal.
(a) People who have been impressed with IA products. These are the people who heard of it from others. Auditioned it, went through the whole rigor that anyone does before parting with their hard-earned money. They made a purchase decision after due diligence, purchased it, and are very happy with their purchase. They are often pushed for writing about their experiences. Though most of them are happy with their stuff even if they are not writing about it.
(b) People who were/are sceptic of the praise Indiq Audio has been getting. Who have kind of begun believing that the phenomenon could be true. And have begun admitting it, albeit in a guarded manner. Fence-sitter comes to the mind, except they are just a part of the wider-audience, not potential buyers.
(c) The people who are questioning this popularity. They seem to be totally failing to comprehend how can an Indian startup get such kind of word-of-mouth. In this thread (and others on the topic of Indiq Audio products), there are a large number of questions from this group which has no intention of buying one, is not even in the market for a product of this class. They only seem interested in questioning the legitimacy of these products and the popularity they are earning.
This group doesn't care if in the process their own last resort phrase of choice - "but it sounds good to my ears", "it's working for me though", "in my room, in my setup, it made a difference", "measurements mean zilch" - are conveniently ignored. For this group, it seems, those are not valid arguments when it comes to these products.
Not too long ago, in another thread, a company X vs company Y comparison was force inserted (in a thread where it was not called for), the reason? The justification was that the company Y product sounds nearly as good as the company X product (that the OP wanted to talk about), but it's available much cheaper, hence the company Y product represents a better value and is a smarter buy. In this thread though, better value doesn't seem to be a relevant criterion.
Similarly, we often talk about post-sale customer support. A product with a better level of post-sale support often earns a higher recommendation. Even that argument is declared a non-important matter in this thread. I can't help wonder why?
Is this because the product is by an Indian startup? Because the owner is not on this forum, doesn't share a bro-code with certain members here? Because the people who are buying the Indiq Audio products are playing in the entry-level end of the field? Because the Indiq Audio owners are not established audiophiles with a long history of cable-swaps, with long stories about how they have gone through N number of components in the search of their holy grail of sound?
Why are some members so dismissive of Indiq Audio product is hard to fathom. FM @keith_correa made a pertinent post above. I quote.
This is true with most of us in the subcontinent - we take things that we don't like to hear way too personally, which clouds our ability to understand what a person is trying to say and makes us jump to conclusions that suit our belief system. As a result we steer discussions tangentially to meet that conclusion and in this, the REAL point is lost like in this case.
I can applaud that post all day long. We all want to hear what we think is true. Any opinion to the contrary is subject to a hurried dismissal.
There is a 4th category..people who may just want to understand more and are asking some questions on it (Which could be beyond the tech capability of a most of us)
But a question is not really a Criticism or a personal insult ( unless one is a designer/founder) . Its about understanding more
Curiosity is a legit thing, if someone is curious, they will question. Nothing wrong with that. It is a good way to understand something better.
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