The Roaring Yamahas

Audio 6000N Play

bazee

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Guys,

I never thought seriously about Yamaha AVRs anytime due to lack of great sound and great reviews.

But tables have changed. Yamaha it seems has unleashed such a series of AVRs that take the Denons and Onkyos by their horns( and succed too.)


RX-V863.jpg



First lets take example of Yamaha DSP-AX863SE/RX-V863 7.2 ch the first in order(shown above.)
It has beat the Onkyo 876 in comparison. ( read review of Onkyo 876 in Dec hifi). Also , it has recieved PRODUCT OF YEAR(UK) in AVR categories. It retails at around 750 USD. And it is interesting to note that it is AV amplifier and the .2 denotes two sub-woofer outs(?). ( In fact after Onkyo 606, most new succesors of x05 categories have missed the fifth star in rating, and that includes 906. While the Yamaha 763 got five-stars.)

Next are the Yamaha RX-V1900 with additional features and the bigger brother, Yamaha RX-V3900 that too is superb.

I think we must stop reflexly recommending Onkyos and Denons to newcomers/buyers without telling them about Yamahas.
For movies they are now hard to beat.

SO are yamahas the rulers.... probably no. But they sure are now a strong conteders.

Keep looking out for the richly loaded Pioneer AVRs and the competition in AVR market sure gets hot.

In conclusion, is Deonon a safe bet ...... yes it is.
SHould we recommend Cambridge Audio AVR .... yes.
But let us give thought to upcoming models.

Yamaha RX-V863 manufacturer's page

Members pls confirm if RX-V863 and DSP-AX863SE are same products.....?
regards
 
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marsilians

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Guys,

I never thought seriously about Yamaha AVRs anytime due to lack of great sound and great reviews.

For how long have you been looking and why do you think they lacked good sound quality?

In my experience of owning 2 models for close to 5.5 yrs since 1995, I have felt they are very stable realiable and good quality for music. Only recently I sold my RX-V659 to a guy who had a Denon. He wanted a AVR that was "fast" as the Denon seemed a bit laid back which is exactly what I have felt. Its a great AVR for supporting tracks from

Lata, Kishore, Asha, Rafi amongst the golden yrs. Its not so great for Talat Mahmood types.
 

bazee

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i too was a owner of yamaha. This post was not started to critisise yamaha...... i wanted more inputs of the new models. I am aware there are lots of old fans of yamaha on board. Your valuable comments are welcome.

regards
 

marsilians

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Hi Bazee

I udnerstand your point now though your statement in the first post was a bit emphatic re: the audio quality of Yamahas.

I did not mean to come out harsh myself just was asking a curious question.

Yamahas traditionally come out every year with new models bearing RX-V and HTR lines. There is usually a correspondence between the RX and HTR lines. In North America the R lines are sold only by audio speaciality stores. The HTR line is sold by major retailers such as Circuit City, Best Buy etc.

The internal components and spec are exact between the 2 lines. The only difference I have seen are that the warranty from audio stores usually extend (informally) for upto 4 yrs.

The pricing difference is also quite significant between the lines
 

venkatcr

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Over the last few weeks I have auditioned the Yamaha 663 at Decibels in Chennai. Mr Raghu, an excellent person and very knowledgeable, was kind enough to let me listen to the Yamaha over extended periods of time.

I have auditioned the 663 across three speaker sets - EPOS, PSB Alphas B1, and Canton diminutive Movies 60CX.

I must say I was very impressed with the way the 663 handled music and movies across all these speakers. The DVD player was a Yamaha 661, an entry level player from Yamaha. In spite of the fact that neither the 663 nor the 661 did any upscaling, the pictures were excellent.

Yamaha we always excellent for movies for a long time. Last year, of course, Onkyo upset the market with their products. I am glad Yamaha is coming back with gusto to take their place as an excellent AVR maker.

I believe the 863 has the same sound signature with the additional capability of upscaling to full 1080p.

Cheers

Cheers
 

bazee

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hello venkat

We are eagerly waiting for your views and possible a review on Pioneer AVR and also the yamahas one mentioned here.
Many people want to know wether the Yam 863 at 63k is a better bet than similarly priced avrs.

regards
 

amol12

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As we are on yamahas, here are the differences (from US site Comparison Detail).



AV Receivers----------------------RX-V663---------RX-V863
PRICEMSRP------------------------$549.95----------$999.95

TECHNOLOGIES
SRS Circle Surround II----------------N------------------Y
HD Radio----------------------------N------------------Y

SPECIFICATIONS
RMS Output Power (20Hz - 20kHz)--95W x 7------------105W x 7
Total Power (20Hz - 20kHz)----------665W-------------735W
HD Radio Tuner-----------------------N-----------------Y
SRS (Circle Surround II)---------------N-----------------Y
HDMI (In/Out)--------------------(2 / 1) Ver. 1.3------(3 / 1) Ver. 1.3
Digital Inputs/Outputs
[O: Optical, C: Coaxial]-----------(O: 3, C: 2)-------(O: 4, C: 2 / O: 1)
HDMI Up Conversion-------------------Y-----------------Y (Scale to 480p / 720p / 1080i / 1080p)


The price of 663 is approx Rs35K (correct me if I am wrong). From above differences most sensible ones are more digital inputs and upscaling (which 663 is not capable of ; it only upconverts - analog to HDMI). Is it wise to shell out 28K more just for more inputs, upscaling and power?
 

venkatcr

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Is it wise to shell out 28K more just for more inputs, upscaling and power?

This depends on the other units that you have and your individual preferences.

If you have a Full HD TV that can display 1080P signals, and are interested in looking at using Blu_Ray a year down the line, the additional investment on the 863 will be worth it. BluRay discs will come with Dolby And DTS Hgh Definition sound that will be a cut above what you hear on HT systems today.

If you want to just watch good movies with good surround sound, and are not bothered much about the quality of the video, the 663 will more than suffice.

Cheers
 

bazee

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Won't a good Upscaling DVD player like Oppo 983 or other coupled with 663 make up to the mark of 863...

I mean if only AV upscaling is the issue there are other ways to handle it instead of leaving it to the AVR.

regards
 

amol12

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Won't a good Upscaling DVD player like Oppo 983 or other coupled with 663 make up to the mark of 863...

I mean if only AV upscaling is the issue there are other ways to handle it instead of leaving it to the AVR.

regards

True. But for sources not capable of doing this (e.g.DTH) a AVR may be good upscaler.
 

marsilians

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Won't a good Upscaling DVD player like Oppo 983 or other coupled with 663 make up to the mark of 863...

I mean if only AV upscaling is the issue there are other ways to handle it instead of leaving it to the AVR.

regards

Yes, this is a way to go but what about TV and games for upscaling? Another thing is the total cost.

In most cases,

Upscaling AVR + non Oppo DVD player < non-upscaling AVR + Oppo
 

bazee

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hi marsillian

you have a point.

Can you post some Upscaling AVR in this price range...

regards
 

marsilians

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hi marsillian

you have a point.

Can you post some Upscaling AVR in this price range...

regards

I am not sure what your price range is as I see only USD quoted. Some decent ones are

Yamaha RX-V 463, 563 and upwards
Onkyo TX-SR605 and upwards
Denon AVR 588, 589 and upwards to name a few
 

hemantwaghe

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Hi I am currently owing RX-V 486 and somewhat satisfied.
I am getting RX V 795 ( used must be 7-8 Years Old) ..... any expereinces? As I understand Bigger the Series number better and more powerful is the amp.
 

bazee

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hi Marsillian

You misunderstood me.

I wanted to gather which AVRs provide true 1080p Upscaling including the analog video sources to HDMI. So it should upscale the DVD player, the STB, the video games etc.

The Yamaha 663 does not upscale (as has been shown in comparision table given by i think Anooj)
The Onkyo 606 up-converts and does not upscale( correct me here).

True upscaling starts at models like :
Onkyo 705,806,906.
Yamaha 863, 1900, 3800
Denon 2308/9, 1909( ??)

Venkat, whats your view..

So I was looking for a AVR in price of 30k-60k that upscales too ( and probably has THX too :rolleyes:).


regards
 

marsilians

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hi Marsillian

You misunderstood me.

I wanted to gather which AVRs provide true 1080p Upscaling including the analog video sources to HDMI. So it should upscale the DVD player, the STB, the video games etc.

The Yamaha 663 does not upscale (as has been shown in comparision table given by i think Anooj)
The Onkyo 606 up-converts and does not upscale( correct me here).

Bazee,

I believe your are wrong on a few things here.

Upscale = Upconvert (except if you ask Marketing guys)
All the players I listed above are upconverting or upscaling.

Here are some quotes from the products .

Yamaha 663 - "Analog video to HDMI digital video upconversion and deinterlacing with TBC"

Denon 588 - "Video Conversion Analog to HDMI Scaling 480p 720p 1080i 1080p"
...

All these will upscale analog to HDMI video

As an aside and more interestingly, even if you achieve this, you are asking the AVR to do magic by taking an analog signal (480i or 240i) such as DVD and then getting them all to 1080P? Where and how can additional data be created for such a large jump?

Finally, I would also look into setting the upscale settings in your TV as ultimately that will decide how to show the picture irrespective of the "magic" that your AVR has come up with.
 

spirovious

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Over the last few weeks I have auditioned the Yamaha 663 at Decibels in Chennai. Mr Raghu, an excellent person and very knowledgeable, was kind enough to let me listen to the Yamaha over extended periods of time.

I have auditioned the 663 across three speaker sets - EPOS, PSB Alphas B1, and Canton diminutive Movies 60CX.

I must say I was very impressed with the way the 663 handled music and movies across all these speakers. The DVD player was a Yamaha 661, an entry level player from Yamaha. In spite of the fact that neither the 663 nor the 661 did any upscaling, the pictures were excellent.

Yamaha we always excellent for movies for a long time. Last year, of course, Onkyo upset the market with their products. I am glad Yamaha is coming back with gusto to take their place as an excellent AVR maker.

I believe the 863 has the same sound signature with the additional capability of upscaling to full 1080p.

Cheers

Cheers

Can you tell me the price?Will it match Tannoy f1?
If not wrong US model of 663 can upscale to 1080p.
 

marsilians

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Hi I am currently owing RX-V 486 and somewhat satisfied.
I am getting RX V 795 ( used must be 7-8 Years Old) ..... any expereinces? As I understand Bigger the Series number better and more powerful is the amp.

Slightly better amp. with larger nos. though not very much better.

THe 795 was released in 1999 (so its going to be 10 yrs old). Thats a very long time in the receiver world only from a technology improvement perspective. This particular receiver has had excellent reviews over all these years. HOpefully you are getting a reasonable price due to its age.
 

bazee

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SPirovious

the quote of Venkat that you have included in your reply has the answer on upscaling.
He has stated the 863 has the same sound signature as the 663 but with addtional power of upscaling.

This thread had Amol's important question is it worth paying 28k more for 863 if you can sacrifice the upscaling that 663 does not have.

Quote Amol
The price of 663 is approx Rs35K (correct me if I am wrong). From above differences most sensible ones are more digital inputs and upscaling (which 663 is not capable of ; it only upconverts - analog to HDMI). Is it wise to shell out 28K more just for more inputs, upscaling and power?

Quote Venkatcr:
The DVD player was a Yamaha 661, an entry level player from Yamaha. In spite of the fact that neither the 663 nor the 661 did any upscaling, the pictures were excellent.

the MRP of 863 is 63 k.

i hope it is clear.. 663 DOES NOT UPSCALE.:)

Marsilian :
If entry level avrs like 463 upscale to 1080p , people wont invest more amounts in high end AVRs.
No offense meant.

Comparision of Yamah 463 and 863 on Yamaha website

regards
 
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amol12

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Bazee,

I believe your are wrong on a few things here.

Upscale = Upconvert (except if you ask Marketing guys)
All the players I listed above are upconverting or upscaling.

Here are some quotes from the products .

Yamaha 663 - "Analog video to HDMI digital video upconversion and deinterlacing with TBC"

Denon 588 - "Video Conversion Analog to HDMI Scaling 480p 720p 1080i 1080p"
...

All these will upscale analog to HDMI video

marsilians,
at least in terms of yamaha,
Upconvert = convert from analog to digital (HDMI)
Upscale = scale from lower resolutions to higher (or from i to p)
 
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