Top 5 mistakes I have made as an audiophile

[COOLDUDE7808]

life was simple when I was just enjoying music in my old 2 in one ....now a lot of time is spent in analysing , buying gear , checking wiring ...recent pursuit being ...checking for a voltage stabiliser ...being an audiophile consumes lot of time and money

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Leaving anechoic chambers aside, Is that possible in a normal room? I've used DIRAC room correction along with generally accepted principles of placement and haven't even come close.

does it measure flat at your listening spot after correcting with dirac ? Still what exactly is missing in comparison to something you have listened at a mixing desk ?

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

1. Believing that speaker toe in was the way to go. Now I do toe out and am happy.
2. Trusting a mac mini as my headless music pc. the whole thing packed up, power supply, processor etc. in a short time. Now I do windows only
3. Thinking tape decks cannot record with enough fidelity and missing out on all the analog fun i could have had.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Leaving anechoic chambers aside, Is that possible in a normal room? I've used DIRAC room correction along with generally accepted principles of placement and haven't even come close.

no two rooms would sound the same, unless all parameters affecting what you hear at one point is found and compensated.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

does it measure flat at your listening spot after correcting with dirac ? Still what exactly is missing in comparison to something you have listened at a mixing desk ?

Recording and mixing engineers get paid to listen to a speaker with a flat frequency response .That should sum up the obvious

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Recording and mixing engineers get paid to listen to a speaker with a flat frequency response .That should sum up the obvious

and that’s how they decide what goes into the mix. If we want to know how they really wanted a mix to be, a similar listening environment is needed which is flat at the listening spot.

With any kind of deviations, a poor mix can sound better and a good mix won’t be heard as how it should be.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

and that’s how they decide what goes into the mix. If we want to know how they really wanted a mix to be, a similar listening environment is needed which is flat at the listening spot.

With any kind of deviations, a poor mix can sound better and a good mix won’t be heard as how it should be.

And why would I be interested in what the mixing engineer wanted . If I spent my money, I want it to please me, not him when he comes round my house

 

[arj]

My perspective is that Both of you ie @Passive_audio_enthusiast and @Yelamanchili manohar are right in your own ways. I could perhaps relate it to a hobby now dormant ie Photography.

While listening to what the recording engineer has decided is inescapable ie thats what you would listen to if you go by being true to the recording. It is a Photograph of the music given to you

There is also the fact that in the end you are listening to music and you want to move away from a "Photograph" to a "Painting" which is an interpretation of the music within your ow room which you can choose to personalize by making it play to your emotion. Depending on your objectives the photograph and painting are both right

While the two approaches are inescapable , the difference between the the 2 above and the various points in between that differentiates the differences in each one of us on how we listen.

In the end listening to music is an art rather than a science , perhaps the same as making and drinking wine and ones own tastes, history, emotion etc are going to be different

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

My perspective is that Both of you ie @Passive_audio_enthusiast and @Yelamanchili manohar are right in your own ways. I could perhaps relate it to a hobby now dormant ie Photography.

While listening to what the recording engineer has decided is inescapable ie thats what you would listen to if you go by being true to the recording. It is a Photograph of the music given to you

There is also the fact that in the end you are listening to music and you want to move away from a "Photograph" to a "Painting" which is an interpretation of the music within your ow room which you can choose to personalize by making it play to your emotion. Depending on your objectives the photograph and painting are both right

While the two approaches are inescapable , the difference between the the 2 above and the various points in between that differentiates the differences in each one of us on how we listen.

In the end listening to music is an art rather than a science , perhaps the same as making and drinking wine and ones own tastes, history, emotion etc are going to be different

The above debate has raged forever. If analysis vs enjoyment is being debated on, Id choose enjoyment every time. No matter how far it is from the truth. I can understand why some like accuracy, and thats fine too. But then I expect the analysis camp to be equally forgiving

 

[Nitin K]

And why would I be interested in what the mixing engineer wanted . If I spent my money, I want it to please me, not him when he comes round my house

In my limited experience, sometimes the sound engineer's mixing taste did not confirm to mine. Not that his taste or mine is wrong. Just that listening to music is subjective.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Listening to colored sound is like, wearing sunglasses. At some part of the day it’s comforting but when it gets dark, you don’t see half of the things.

 

[Phew]

Listening to colored sound is like, wearing sunglasses. At some part of the day it’s comforting but when it gets dark, you don’t see half of the things.

Heard of Photochromic lenses/ sunglasses?

 

[Nitin K]

@Passive_audio_entusiast, I respect your opinion. But sometimes sound engineer's too adjust sound to their preferences towards the end of mastering.
Everybody needs a little bit of spice, tadka or toppings on their dish just to have a better overall experience or some may like it bland. There is nothing wrong with either approach since music listening is very personal.

 

[Phew]

Unless one can play instruments, sing, record and master it themselves, what is offered in the market is what you are going to get, if you like it listen to it if you don't move onto another album/artist or probably make one yourself.

 

[Shinto]

Listening to colored sound is like, wearing sunglasses. At some part of the day it’s comforting but when it gets dark, you don’t see half of the things.

Please allow me to tell my opinion. No offence intended.
What is coloured sound.Every sound is coloured. You just pick your colour I guess.This is what this hobby has taught me.
Even the mixing engineer might not know what he intended after years pass.It was his mood on that day.Why should an average listener try to hear what he heard.It is like reading a book and be adamant that it needs to be interpreted in the same exact way the author had conceived it in his head . In my limited experience,every sound is coloured and the same sound that the mixing engineer heard while he mixed can only be heard by him alone in his studio.Even a different mixing engineer in the same desk would hear it differently.Would all studio monitors sound the same??are they all flat .. absolutely no.They have their own sound depending on the brand and model.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

.Would all studio monitors sound the same??are they all flat .. absolutely no.They have their own sound depending on the brand and model.

the signature of a speaker lies very much in their frequency response. Every brand is aiming for absolute flat, but so far nothing has absolute ruler flat response. There are still minor variations in the +/- 1 db or 2db limits. And this variation does happen at various frequencies for various brands making them sound different. But generally they all are within the margin of tolerance that they won’t alter the tone of an instrument completely wrong. If every dips and crests of the freq response of brand A is matched with brand B and if their directivity patterns are same it would become indistinguishable.

 

[Shinto]

the signature of a speaker lies very much in their frequency response. Every brand is aiming for absolute flat, but so far nothing has absolute ruler flat response. There are still minor variations in the +/- 1 db or 2db limits. And this variation does happen at various frequencies for various brands making them sound different. But generally they all are within the margin of tolerance that they won’t alter the tone of an instrument completely wrong. If every dips and crests of the freq response of brand A is matched with brand B and if their directivity patterns are same it would become indistinguishable.

Acheiving a ruler flat frequency response should'nt be difficult.why is it difficult to achieve in a controlled environment. The frequency response variation of a monitor is intentional.A good mixing engineer can judge how his mix translates from his monitors. They dont need ruler flat response to do it.Their aim is not a ruler flat recording right.the aim is a good sounding recording that translates well to a variety of listeners/systems I guess.the existing good recordings are the proof.Most of them have multiple sets of monitors. There is a lot of discussion on this matter in Pro audio forums.

 

[Nanotek]

When you hear a real instruments in person, their tone isn’t same across all the brands. Drums / pianos, violins all of them have variations which has their own signature sound.

Every live venue is different, some large some small, some with good acoustics, some really reflective and so on.. This influences how you hear the sound of it. Take a bucket and hit with with a stick keeping inside a small room and in an open ground. They would sound totally different. So in this case which variant is really the sound of bucket getting hit by a stick?

The recording engineer sometimes won’t be completely happy about the tone of an instrument, so he may use some eq on them to his taste and what comes through their studio monitor is how they want the recording to sound like. It may not be exactly how the instruments / people in real life would sound.

Most recording studios stick to their standards of flat sound at the reference point. So if you need to hear what is in the recording you need something that measures flat at the point where you listen to it.

There's a good post at talkclassical forum: studio monitors or hifi speakers for classical music listening. The orchestra performs. If the sound engineer uses EQ, then he has become part of the performance, he is controlling an instrument. If we buy hifi speakers instead of studio monitors as end use, we are also performing, playing instruments!

Yes, lugging tape head cleaner, demagnetisers, cartons of metal tape to the stack was very fun!

3. Thinking tape decks cannot record with enough fidelity and missing out on all the analog fun i could have had.

Listening to colored sound is like, wearing sunglasses. At some part of the day it’s comforting but when it gets dark, you don’t see half of the things.

Absolutely. The genius of the performer can be partially hidden, when we manipulate the end product. Some times we can correct problems that were intentional, required for the interpretation of the composition by the performer. This happened even before recording was invented. The piano is an improved harpsichord, but the whole effect that the composer wanted was lost by the change. That's why orchestras are trying to play compositions with the original instruments, repairing old instruments, or making new harpsichords, and wooden flutes, and recorders, the fife type flutes...

 

[Hari Iyer]

the signature of a speaker lies very much in their frequency response. Every brand is aiming for absolute flat, but so far nothing has absolute ruler flat response. There are still minor variations in the +/- 1 db or 2db limits. And this variation does happen at various frequencies for various brands making them sound different. But generally they all are within the margin of tolerance that they won’t alter the tone of an instrument completely wrong. If every dips and crests of the freq response of brand A is matched with brand B and if their directivity patterns are same it would become indistinguishable.

We are discussing only frequency response, but a more important parameter of phase is completely ignored. All speakers are playing 20hz to 20khz +/- 1 dB, then why do they sound different. The answer lies in phase response, directivity, impulse and step response. Timing is everything in speakers.

 

[arj]

We are discussing only frequency response, but a more important parameter of phase is completely ignored. All speakers are playing 20hz to 20khz +/- 1 dB, then why do they sound different. The answer lies in phase response, directivity, impulse and step response. Timing is everything in speakers.

not just that.

the tone of any sound is defined by harmonics. the difference between a Guitar playing a tone at 100Hz and a Sitar doing the same in the same instant is in harmonics
1. you will have harmonics of 200, 300, 400, 500 etc
2. you will have sub harmonics of 50, 33.3 , 25, 20 etc

all of the frequencies are combined to form 1 wave which defines the tone of the voice

I have so far understood is as the complex wave being different to cause a difference in the tone ie 2 different speakers might produce the 100 Hz fundamentally exactly the same and as per specs but if the amplitude of the 2nd/3rd/4th change then the tone will be different but will still be called accurate. some components are "Pleasing and Musical" when the 2nd order /4th order are slightly accentuated and "harsh" when the 3rd/5th are. of course the harmonics are lower in amplitude as their order increases and keeps getting smaller till it does not matter.

Getting the tone "natural" and close to real is when the harmonics all play up well and the dry tone which measures accurate and " emotion" missing is when the harmonics perhaps dont quite add up to real.

Perhaps the way any component is measured is via sine waves at a frequency but I have not heard of any measurement which measures the Harmonic content and that used to be usually "By the ear". No idea how it is done now and happy to learn how it is actually done if anyone knows.

Of course all of the above is just for 1 pluck of 1 instrument at 100Hz at one instant. now add up all the frequencies that other instruments are playing at that time and you have one complex wave for just one instant to see what the speaker has to reproduce.