Torn between Yamaha-863 & Marantz-3053 AVRs

Wharfedale EVO4.1 Bookshelf Speakers

sand64

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Friends,

Sometimes It becomes really difficult to make decisions.

My quest to enjoy better music bought me here in this forum. Your advises, views & ideas helped me a lot and I finally decided to add an AVR first and then add a pair of floorstanders later on. (I have a old n faithful stereo set up with FSs)

So I did a quick audition in Delhi (due to shortage of time) but before going into it, I will let u know my needs & situations. Here are these:

- Working in central govt., transferable job so no fixed room size, decor & orientation.
- Budget constraint as usual, though recent pay arrears helped me to some extent.
- Listening tastes includes western (mostly rock) & hindi (filmy, pop & ghazals)
- Would like to have the AVR as musical as possible in its class/range (I now know it is difficult)
- Should have enough punch for movies too.

And not the least - its sound signature should be enjoyable to me.

So I planned to extract some time out of my official assignment in delhi, packed 2-3 my own CDs (but no movie clip) along with official papers & visited four dealers:

Dealer I - auditioned Denon 1910 with wharfe, not very impressive. Also auditioned marantz as integrated stereo amp paired with Wharfedale 9.5 for music (liked marantz & wharfe).

Dealer II - auditioned CA 340R with polk. Sounded good but lacked punch despite auditioning being done in a dedicated demo room....may be due to lack of availability of good software there (only Ghazni sound tracks).

Dealer III - auditioned Yamaha 863 with set of Q-acoustic 1050i and Paradigm 5.1 cinema. I was looking forward to listen 863 as it was recomended by dear venket & many other members of this forum. It is good no doubt. The amp has good punch for movies & suficient body in music too. (Dealer was playing a blu-ray demo disk....was this the reason??? not sure)

Dealer IV - auditioned marantz SR3053 & pm7001 in stereo mode, paired with some 'Rave' brand of Bookshelves. Didnt had time to see movie clip and just managed to catch train back home. Liked the sound signature of marantz, and also felt that SR3053 is not far behind in SQ than integated amp pm7001 (I may be wrong as I was in a bit of hurry)

Now here the delimma starts.....as I am torn between Yamaha-863 & marantz SR3053.

I liked the punch & looks of 863 but it cost almost double the SR3053. It is not that I can't afford it, and I know that once you buy... then you live with it. But yes I will look for the value for money. Rx-663 could have been suffice but it is not available.

SR3053 on the other hand a basic 5.1 avr. No future proofing... I am not much concerned with video capabilities...but non-availability of pre-outs, absence of formats like Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD Master Audio is a dragger. Music is good..video capabilities not seen.

As both the sets were not available with same dealer, I was not able to compare them for clarity and dynamic range.....and i am not sure of my audition too as it was hurried one and i am a novice.

What do you say.......Pl. do come up with your views as it will be a great help.

thanks.
 

sand64

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Thanks Venkat again,

I am at the verge of deciding in favour of 863.

But I will trouble you once again to sort out a situation. This is about speakers I am having and I will have to buy in near future at pair with AVR. You see, my wife is very skeptical about numbers of speakers (no grudge...it is she who do all the packing during transfers..);).

Right now I am having a pair of florstanders (paired with my BPL stereo having 2x8" driver each) a pair of WH 9.1 and a pair of old bookshelves of single driver 'Murphy' brand (Last remains of father's turn-table based music system which I enjoyed during my childhood,but sonically ok but not that good).

During my audition, I keenly observed the SQ of marantz amp,paired with WH9.5. In lay man's term I would rate SQ of my BPL system at 80% that of marantz & WH combo. This helped me to decide for continuing with my present stereo setup for the time being and add an AVR.
Now with AVR I need to add/buy a center channel speaker as it is must. But I am also toying the idea of not buying a active sub and using my stereo set as sub during movie play (by connecting .2 of 863 with stereo amp and floorstaders as passive sub.) and remaining four as front & rear. This way I feel I will be able to use my integrated BPL amp as stand alone system for music. Is this approach ok????? I hope it work to some extent OR it will be no match to a dedicated plate amplified active sub?

thanks & regard..
 
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sand64

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Thanks dear Sumit, madbullram, thevortex and other boarders for inputs...

By Sumit
Listen man, I shall tell you bluntly: We can help you here with what we feel sounds 'right'. But, Home theater is personal. Every individual is different. YOU need to audition yourself.

Yes sure. You have a valid point and though my heart is going in favor of 863, I will decide between marantz 5003 & 863 during my next audition.

By Sumit
The 863 is fabulous but it is much costlier.
No matter if it satisfy you, otherwise you will remain wanting for more. To prove my point I will tell you, I bough my present stereo set (BPL D-1000) way back in 1997 for 24k. I was four years in service, had some money, and not exposed to premium brands like CA, NAD or marantz. That time I compared it to some sony model (SEN or something wich was costing 48k) which was sonically better than BPL, though difference was not huge. I had that money but out of economy I went for BPL. I would not say that I did'nt enjoy BPL, but from the day one I felt I wanted more...... With wife, kids, parents, job and other matters of life, I did'nt go for quick upgrade, but manytimes when I use to play music, I wanted for more. So the point is "You buy it, and You live with it..:mad:

By madbullram
A good 20k system will definitely play better than a AVR setup.

May be true in case of AVR but for music a 20k system will be a very average system. I had auditioned Norge 1000 & marantz amp (do'nt remember the model number) with WH 9.5 and I feel Norge do not stand. Refinement of SQ in comparison to marantz was not there. So for quality you need to put money (but do'nt just throw it for gimmics, audition it yourself) and go for AVR if u have a stereo set.

cheers...
 
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Raghav

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I think it is the simplicity, lack of useless clutter of connections and ease to understand which attracts people to stereo setups. Also they tend to last longer as AVRs are outdated in a few years.

I feel AVR give the same value at twice the price for stereo use. AVRs costs are controlled largely by higher volumes vis-a-vis amps.

Raghav


Raghs: You have a point but somehow I was never satisfied with a AVR setup for music though I have auditioned many places. In fact, I was advising him to look at a second hand system. A good 20k system will definitely play better than a AVR setup.

Also, see the number 20 and 90 is huge. The point i was trying to make is, if music is primary, look for a setup in music, as in 20k pure music setup will beat a 90k setup with sheer value :) May be i went little overboard with 90k :eek:hyeah:
 
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venkatcr

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But I am also toying the idea of not buying a active sub and using my stereo set as sub during movie play (by connecting .2 of 863 with stereo amp and floorstaders as passive sub.) and remaining four as front & rear. This way I feel I will be able to use my integrated BPL amp as stand alone system for music. Is this approach ok????? I hope it work to some extent OR it will be no match to a dedicated plate amplified active sub?

Theoretically, you can connect the .2 to the Left and Right of a stereo amp and drive passive speakers with it. If you speakers have 8 inch drivers, they should deliver decent low frequency sound.

Whether it will be a match for a dedicated sub or not, I have no idea. I have not heard LFE amplified in the novel way that you are suggesting. So, at least for me, it will be difficult to compare.

Cheers
 
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thevortex

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Sand - I think if you audition an integrated amp at the Rs. 30,000 mark, you will be able to easily understand what many of us are saying. There really is no competition as far as the ability to produce music is concerned. The AVR is left far behind. But the whole question is whether you need that level of musical performance. Whether you would be satisfied with what the AVR gives you plus all the fancy features you get along with it.

You would have to have multiple auditions of both sorts of equipments to make up your mind.
 
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sand64

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thevortex

I am fully aware of this fact. I have auditioned marantz amp (7002 or 6003 I don't remember) side by side with marantz AVR and the difference was very clear. With AVR, the music lacked the body....

But watch a movie with AVR and it becomes awsome.. so as venkatcr and many fellow boarders have already said... one should not seek a product between these two ends.

In my earlier posts i have said that I already have a music system which I will rate at SQ of 75-80% of that of marantz & WH9.5 combo (in quanitative sense). So I feel no point spending another 30-50k for another stereo (will do that when my present music system start dying). Instead I prefer adding a new dimension to AV experience through AVR:licklips:.

cheers..
 
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thevortex

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thevortex

I am fully aware of this fact. I have auditioned marantz amp (7002 or 6003 I don't remember) side by side with marantz AVR and the difference was very clear. With AVR, the music lacked the body....

But watch a movie with AVR and it becomes awsome.. so as venkatcr and many fellow boarders have already said... one should not seek a product between these two ends.

In my earlier posts i have said that I already have a music system which I will rate at SQ of 75-80% of that of marantz & WH9.5 combo (in quanitative sense). So I feel no point spending another 30-50k for another stereo (will do that when my present music system start dying). Instead I prefer adding a new dimension to AV experience through AVR:licklips:.

cheers..

Fair enough. In which case, the Yamaha AVR makes more sense. But maybe not the 863 as it is quite a bit costly. But if it is within your ambit, please go ahead.
 
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sand64

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Folks,

Is there any issue in connecting speakers of different impedance to AVR? Say my proposed fronts are 8 ohm, rear 6 ohm and centre 4 ohm. So is there any problem in AV experience? I think speakers should draw current according to the requirement and their resistance/impedance....

cheers..
 
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ashishkesarwani

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If any of your speakers in the chain is of 4 ohms or 6 ohms then you should select the lower possible value in your AVR and as per Yamaha it allows to select between 6 and 8 ohms, so here you should select 6 ohms as thats the only option present there otherwise if 4 ohms was selectable then its good to choose that setting. None of the AVR gives you the option of selecting impedience for individual speakers so we have to select it for the entire series of speakers you have with you. Thats why its always recommended to buy all the speakers from the same series so that their current requirements matches each other.
 
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sud98

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Just checked the manual for 863 and you can set the speaker impedance to 6 ohm min or 8 ohm min. In 8 ohm min setting, all front,centre, surround and surround back have to be min. 8 ohm. In 6 ohm setting, the fronts have to be 4 ohm min, the center and surround have to be min. 6 ohm.

There seems to be no setting for surround speakers of 4 ohm.
 

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sand64

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Thanks friends,

I am using my 863 with 6 ohm setting without any problem. So this issue is closed.

But recently my BPL amp developed some snag and service centre is asking
10k for main card replacement. This is too high and right now Yamha 863 is doing the duties of Stereo as well as HT.

So I am looking to add a stereo amp. for music in near future. I am getting Marantz 7001 for 22k. Will it be ok? Will it sound better than my 863 for 2 channel music? Or I should go for somethig else...
 
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Sumit

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Thanks friends,
So I am looking to add a stereo amp. for music in near future. I am getting Marantz 7001 for 22k. Will it be ok? Will it sound better than my 863 for 2 channel music? Or I should go for somethig else...

7001 will beat the hell out of 863 for Music. No question about it. I have personally auditioned the amp and I can say that it is a well rounded amp.

If i remember, you are using BPL speakers. if this is the case then I would suggest you upgrade your speakers and then think about the stereo amp.
Also, don't buy 7001 for 22K. It is on the higher side for a model that is 2 generations old.

Cheers!
 
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sand64

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7001 will beat the hell out of 863 for Music. No question about it. I have personally auditioned the amp and I can say that it is a well rounded amp.
Cheers!

Thanks sumit,

And how would you rate 7001 to Norge1000? Norge is quite popular in this forum and a VFM.

And yes I am also looking for a pair of good FS speakers. Will let you people know.... What should be the best price of 7001. Is 7001 better than 7003?
 
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Sumit

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I cannot comment about the Norge as I have not heard it. Since you are looking to buy floorstanders as well, I suggest you finalize the speakers first. You have to follow the chain.
Speakers>Amplification>Source

So, we shall decide about the Marantz or any other amp when you finalize speakers.

Cheers!!
 
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jai1611

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Also, don't buy 7001 for 22K. It is on the higher side for a model that is 2 generations old.

The 7001 is one generation old, not two. Its replacement (the PM7003) is around 27k. At 22k, its pretty good value (especially if you compare to Nad, Denon, CA etc in the same price range)
 
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Sumit

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The 7001 is one generation old, not two. Its replacement (the PM7003) is around 27k. At 22k, its pretty good value (especially if you compare to Nad, Denon, CA etc in the same price range)
Well Jai, if you look at it this way:
7003> One generation
7002> Two generation

I don't know about CA/ Denon, but NAD C315 retails at 21k, C 325 = 24.5k and C 326 at 28.4 K. So, NAD is pretty competitive. It actually boils down to the speakers and the sound signature Sand is looking for.:indifferent14:

Cheers!
 
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jai1611

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Well Jai, if you look at it this way:
7003> One generation
7002> Two generation

I don't know about CA/ Denon, but NAD C315 retails at 21k, C 325 = 24.5k and C 326 at 28.4 K. So, NAD is pretty competitive. It actually boils down to the speakers and the sound signature Sand is looking for.:indifferent14:

Cheers!

There is no PM7002 so you are counting an extra generation. Among the Nad range, the comparable amplifier for the 7001/7003 range (based on international pricing) is the C355.

You are right about the purchase decision boiling down to system matching. However, to classify the PM7001 as overpriced at 22k is bit misleading. It is definitely worthy of consideration at that price.
 
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sand64

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Thanks a lot...

On speaker front, I have auditioned MS mezzo-6 & 8, Aviano6. Mission74i, Jamo C405 & C605.

Liked Mezzo & Aviano-6 & mission 76i at their respective price points. Jamo C405 is also good, but I feel tweeter becomes hyper active at high volumes. Shall wait to look for Dali Ikon-6 and some more. Though Mission is VFM, your suggestions are requested....

I have never auditioned Nad. How is its sound signature?

Again thanks for help...
 
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