Turning the tide... New Active Speakers

Problem is, by introducing terms like warm, cold, intimate, cozy etc all hope of objectivity is lost. Although it can be argued as to whether art or appreciation thereof needs to be objective. I think Ayn Rand got that part right in 'The Romantic Manifesto '.

Back to the subject, a neutral sound is not something lacking. It is what presents music as is. Sans bells and whistles. If the ultimate aim is to enjoy music and give credit to the musicians who produced it I would guess that a system reproducing their sound -warts and all - is what would be preferable. On the other hand if the objective is to simply enjoy music then your preferred sound signature does no harm. We just cannot criticize or praise the artist based on such listening impressions.

At least that is what I tell myself :)

mpw - I have still not recovered from the awe these speakers first ended up inducing. Soon I should be ready with a review..
 
Sir, which speakers are you talking about?
I read somewhere you are planning to buy an active set, have you bought it?

Sorry if you have mentioned it before, I missed the part.
 
Hence the desire to get the live performance in the house istelf!

Hello Arhant,
Nice to know your intentions are right (for you :)).

IMHO, Below two are two different pursuits:-
1) "Reproducing music as close to the recording as possible" as against
2) "Reproducing a live performance at home"

Setting a HIFI sterio system to reproduce music as close to recording is very achievable.
But setting a goal to reproduce a live performance is a different pursuit altogether! (I share the same goal)

I think goal 2) is relatively more challenging to achieve as it depends on lot more factors. Somethings to consider:- By live do you mean:
i) Amplified live - PA system (as in a concert) or
ii) In person live - as in a private setting where you can actually hear the singer/music without any amplification

ii) is a real challenge!

In either case IMHO achieving 70-80% of sound is not the big deal, it is the remaining 20% that is the real deal! (this is where time/money/patience is tested)!

I would like to believe myself that I would be successfully able to reproduce close to live performance at my home "some day"! :)

Sometimes it is better to come to terms with our expectations and setting them right in the beginning itself! :)

I know there are many music lovers here who have successfully moved closer this goal! Only respect for them! :)
 
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Hello Arhant,
Nice to know your intentions are right (for you :)).

IMHO, Below two are two different pursuits:-
1) "Reproducing music as close to the recording as possible" as against
2) "Reproducing a live performance at home"

Setting a HIFI sterio system to reproduce music as close to recording is very achievable.
But setting a goal to reproduce a live performance is a different pursuit altogether! (I share the same goal)

I think goal 2) is relatively more challenging to achieve as it depends on lot more factors. Somethings to consider:- By live do you mean:
i) Amplified live - PA system (as in a concert) or
ii) In person live - as in a private setting where you can actually hear the singer/music without any amplification

ii) is a real challenge!

In either case IMHO achieving 70-80% of sound is not the big deal, it is the remaining 20% that is the real deal! (this is where time/money/patience is tested)!

I would like to believe myself that I would be successfully able to reproduce close to live performance at my home "some day"! :)

Sometimes it is better to come to terms with our expectations and setting them right in the beginning itself! :)

I know there are many music lovers here who have successfully moved closer this goal! Only respect for them! :)

"achieving 70-80% of sound is not the big deal"..!!!?
i am sure none of us in this forum have reached even 30-40% of it...
 
Hello Arhant,
Nice to know your intentions are right (for you :)).

IMHO, Below two are two different pursuits:-
1) "Reproducing music as close to the recording as possible" as against
2) "Reproducing a live performance at home"

Setting a HIFI sterio system to reproduce music as close to recording is very achievable.
But setting a goal to reproduce a live performance is a different pursuit altogether! (I share the same goal)

I think goal 2) is relatively more challenging to achieve as it depends on lot more factors. Somethings to consider:- By live do you mean:
i) Amplified live - PA system (as in a concert) or
ii) In person live - as in a private setting where you can actually hear the singer/music without any amplification

ii) is a real challenge!

In either case IMHO achieving 70-80% of sound is not the big deal, it is the remaining 20% that is the real deal! (this is where time/money/patience is tested)!

I would like to believe myself that I would be successfully able to reproduce close to live performance at my home "some day"! :)

Sometimes it is better to come to terms with our expectations and setting them right in the beginning itself! :)

I know there are many music lovers here who have successfully moved closer this goal! Only respect for them! :)

Out of the the two i am sure i prefer option 2, i.e, "Reproducing a live performance at home"
but out of the sub options i am not quite sure yet.

I plan to go to the Av Max show in Delhi and just to a lot comparison to figure out where i stand.

I get what you are saying, i would be really happy if i can get close to 70%-80%,
but as soundnovice put it, most are barely at 30%-40%. So yes the goal post is far but its fun along the way!

regarding the Linkwitz speakers, have read a lot about them and they seem to be great but auditioning them or getting them here is a big issue.
Though Madisound now has a kit for their new LX 521 Monitor.

Hope someone builds it soon :) Then we can have listen!
 
Sir, which speakers are you talking about?
I read somewhere you are planning to buy an active set, have you bought it?

Sorry if you have mentioned it before, I missed the part.

Have not mentioned it before! Equator Audio D5. Cat is out of the bag :)
 
Have not mentioned it before! Equator Audio D5. Cat is out of the bag :)

Congratulations sir!.. Great buy... I have read about equator on some pro audio forums. They do have a good reputation. I dint know they were available in india. Will look forward to your review on the same.

Are you using them in a desktop setup? or like normal bookshelves with some distance between you and the speakers?
 
Congratulations sir!.. Great buy... I have read about equator on some pro audio forums. They do have a good reputation. I dint know they were available in india. Will look forward to your review on the same.

Are you using them in a desktop setup? or like normal bookshelves with some distance between you and the speakers?

As normal bookshelves...And thank you!
 
that's great. I think you are out of the very few who have moved from a dedicated passive stereo setup to an active monitor one. It will very nice to hear about the experience and the differences.

In relation to ongoing discussion in the thread, it will also be good to know the adjective you would subscribe (if any) to the sound - neutral - warm -bright- etc?
Only for objective purposes as you mentioned earlier.
 
that's great. I think you are out of the very few who have moved from a dedicated passive stereo setup to an active monitor one. It will very nice to hear about the experience and the differences.

IMO, most of the Active Speakers users today, must have been passive users yesterday. I would think there are very few who would have started off as active speaker users and stayed that way :)

Coming back to the Original Post, Active Speakers need a lot more discipline, IMO
Most of the active speakers, try to be neutral but it is not really very easy to achieve neutral especially at a very small prices if it is not nearfield monitoring, even if there is more than 3 feet distance from speakers to the listening space.
Also, there is this thing about not beating physics. What large drivers (read as >= 8" drive)could do to sound vs a smaller 6.5" drive
Given all this, a particular active speaker sound only one way, whether you like it or not. Some believe that it is the accurate sound but in reality it might not be as accurate as one wants it to be.

So how is all this different from passive? In passive configuration, one tries to balance the sound of the speaker with the sound of the amplifier in their preferred way where as in an active configuration one tries to enjoy what the manufacturer thinks is the right matching.

For some, manufacturer's matching is acceptable and I might even say, enjoyable. For some others like me, at my given price point, the passive combination works best to my sound liking.

Coming back to the Pro-Audio range of Active speakers, there is a tremendous value one can buy in. One gets an active bi-amplified speaker (even tri-amplified speaker with a stretch on budget).

So, what's the catch? There is actually almost none - Most Pro audio speakers are meant for the Sound engineer to analyse the recordings rather than put his legs up and enjoy. This is where the most discussions are centered around. Some says there is no difference in the above two scenarios. If so, the whole home audio business is all about rebranding the pro audio stuff into home decor friendly clothing. Personally, I think there is a major difference between the two. This is where the analytical nature of the gear comes into picture.
When a pro-audio makes a pair of active speaker, I would assume that he tries to make the amp + speaker combo as much analytical as possible to give the sound engineer the needed insight into the recording so that he can tweak the mix for wider acceptance. A sound engineer does not have to be a musician but he needs to know the sound of the instruments and possibly have greater idea of what might be appealing to wider end consumer of the recording.
My guess is if a Sound engineer is into listening to music at home, he might not have the same gear as his studio but the one that would play the recording as an enjoyable piece of music.

If all the above is true, then why there is so much overlap / confusion? I would say, over the years, the job of Sound Engineer (like many other professions) has spread over from larger studios to home production. With the internet boom, youtube artists, garage bands all this has spread over like wildfire. Now the pro-audio companies are also into the business of catering to the home production and hence the gear are slightly tuned to home but overall the main objective is not lost - that is being analytical and ability to look into the recording are still the the strength of the pro-gear.

All this brings to another interesting aspect of our hobby.. If something is really neutral and accurate, then how can one not enjoy the music? The answer is there is nothing really neutral out there. Atleast at the normal asking price that I can think of. Also the mic that are used to record, the sound engineer's thoughts on how things should sound, his gear all add up the recording that we are playing being already different from the live sound. The last chain our gear, adds its own distortion be it small or large.

So, I gave up on neutral long time back and look for something that I can enjoy with minimum distortion. Pro-audio gear though sounds good and great VFM, IMO sounded best from a desktop position (Adam A7x that i auditioned, for example). It was very clean but still sounded detached. I am no sound engineer and may be they help the sound engineer better. Also, the speakers sounded very different when I was some 7 feet away from them.

Coming back to discipline, one needs to be very clear about what kind of sound they want and a particular active or pro-audio speaker makers definition of SQ is matching their own definition and if they are happy with that kind of accuracy / neutrality for longer periods of listening then they hit the jackpot! As it costs a lot lesser to go pro-audio route or active speakers route.

By no means, I am saying that active speakers are cheaper. There are some competent active speakers which costs a lot of more but also if you look at real pricey ones most of them tend to be passive. But the good news is that active speakers entry price for a given technical level of performance (read as RMS and SPL) is much VFM than passive counterparts. But in terms of ground reality about how much fun one can get out of them (keeping the technicality aside for a minute) is all for you to decide!

Now, Burn me!
 
First off - these were not planned purchases. More in the nature of a gift really. However I did love the sound signature of these speakers and their coherent presentation.

My Lyrita speakers had spoiled me with their extremely coherent single range driver speakers. I might perhaps have fallen for this speaker because of its coaxial nature - contributing to its coherence.

satmumbai - no need to burn you :)

Having met a few audio engineers and interacted with them they are not, on the whole, people who listen to music as a hobby at home. They tend to find other hobbies :)

I had pretty much the same apprehensions as you before I got to listen to these. To say these are value for money is to say that the sky is blue!

2 Class D matched amplifiers in each speaker and tuned DSP are just icing on the cake. Not that I am a big fan of voicing based on other's preferences. One small thing about neutrality is that it is not variable and subjective. Response curves for frequencies have to be flat. Then why do different speakers sound different even in pro audio? The ports, tuning thereof, amplification and speaker and driver shape and material apart from design basics make the difference.

I don't know if active VS passive is even a worthwhile discussion. Suffice it to say these help me delve deeper into the music without robbing any of the enjoyment factor. Cannot complain, can I? :)
 
Response curves for frequencies have to be flat. Then why do different speakers sound different even in pro audio? The ports, tuning thereof, amplification and speaker and driver shape and material apart from design basics ...

And how they interact with your room. I guess that is the reason that even studio monitors may have DSP for tuning, or it may be applied externally.
 
And how they interact with your room. I guess that is the reason that even studio monitors may have DSP for tuning, or it may be applied externally.

Indeed Thad! In fact the room is a much bigger factor when it comes to overall sound than those other 'small things' I was mentioning :)

But I was speaking with reference to different active monitors - perhaps with the same room as reference.
 
IMO, most of the Active Speakers users today, must have been passive users yesterday. I would think there are very few who would have started off as active speaker users and stayed that way :)


Sir, you forget that we "computer generation" that is, start of as active or rather powered users these days.
With our neat little computer speakers, then we realise there is such a thing as dedicated stereo setup and vinyls and cd's and so forth that give so much more in terms of enjoying music.

What i meant with my comment was that there would be very few people on this forum currently, who have a very good passive setup and then they move to active monitors.
Therefore, it will be good to get a comparison and set the notion about "active monitors just being for the studio and not for stereo" right with an experienced perspective.

Its not an active vs passive discussion. But its about letting people know that active or studio monitors can give the same enjoyment.
 
Therefore, it will be good to get a comparison and set the notion about "active monitors just being for the studio and not for stereo" right with an experienced perspective.

Its not an active vs passive discussion. But its about letting people know that active or studio monitors can give the same enjoyment.

That I can straightaway clarify, arihantd! Music is Music - it does not make sense to say that what is right for the studio is not right for the home. Of course I have not heard all the active monitors out there. But here is a perspective.

In the years gone, studios actually tried to use the most revealing speaker that they could lay their hands on (for this purpose, the mids had to be pushed forward so much that there remained nothing of anything else). This used to be the Yamaha NS10's - so I am told. The criteria of listening on that speaker was that - if it sounded good on that, then it will sound good anywhere! :)

But times have changed. Genelecs and Bagends grace many studios now. Even those of the big names like Rahman.

There is one small thing that sticks in my mind - the creator of the song cannot produce something that sounds bad on the setup he uses to evaluate it!

There are other things that go against home hifi use. Mixing and matching amps is not going to be possible. At least not easily :). And these speakers are not focused on looking good. No veneers, no fancy shapes etc.

Sonically these are very hard to dismiss! From there, tastes can be the only determinants!
 
Thats exactly what i feel but i really am not experienced enough to say that authoritatively.
But if someone who has experience with a great passive set and now an active one, like you, says it then it means something.

Obviously the ultimate test to go out there and hear a set of actives for yourself but no one into Hifi really carries them and yes they dont look that great as well. So its a special effort. But sonically form what little i have heard they are good.
 
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