T/s would have to be done for a batch or all the drivers in case of surplus . If it is a case of overstock then it is fine , if these drivers were pieces from QC rejects i suggest doing t/s for all the drivers and then use them
Tymphany custom OEM surplus drivers group buy
- Thread starter linuxguru
- Start date
musiklava79
Active Member
@ Vinay2013
Hi Vinay,
Here's the link to a sim that was done for the Vifa TG9FD drivers.
TABAQ TL for Tang Band - Page 29 - diyAudio
Of course, we'll all have to wait until the T/S parameters of the Tymphany drivers become available. However, you can see for yourself that BSC is not required when the speakers with the Vifa drivers are place against the wall.
The designer of the Tabaqs has stressed time and again that the dimensions of the plan have to be maintained so I suppose you can go ahead with your build. You always have the choice of switching drivers later!
hyeah:
Hi Vinay,
Here's the link to a sim that was done for the Vifa TG9FD drivers.
TABAQ TL for Tang Band - Page 29 - diyAudio
Of course, we'll all have to wait until the T/S parameters of the Tymphany drivers become available. However, you can see for yourself that BSC is not required when the speakers with the Vifa drivers are place against the wall.
The designer of the Tabaqs has stressed time and again that the dimensions of the plan have to be maintained so I suppose you can go ahead with your build. You always have the choice of switching drivers later!
hyeah:@Keith Corea - Sir - I would like to thank you for finding and mentioning this design in the first place. This seems simple and doable for a novice like me. I am thankful for your wise advice which ensures that even if I do something wrong, I am not allowed to do so or at least I will know what is not right.
I do not expect extraordinary results or phenomenal sound quality in my first build itself. As of now, I don't even know how to place the driver, what materials to use, how to air- seal the driver and enclosure. I did not even know the stuffing and inner design of a cabinet matters so much, still I want to try. HFV and esteemed members are the driving force that I could even think of building my own speakers. I am trying to acquire knowledge and will continuously do.
I like music but I am not an audiophile so few frequencies here and there will not matter much for me. I will appreciate if somebody could come forward and do all the calculations, but I intend to build it even if all the specs are not available. The advantage is atleast I will have practical knowledge of basics.
Regards,
Vinay
I do not expect extraordinary results or phenomenal sound quality in my first build itself. As of now, I don't even know how to place the driver, what materials to use, how to air- seal the driver and enclosure. I did not even know the stuffing and inner design of a cabinet matters so much, still I want to try. HFV and esteemed members are the driving force that I could even think of building my own speakers. I am trying to acquire knowledge and will continuously do.
I like music but I am not an audiophile so few frequencies here and there will not matter much for me. I will appreciate if somebody could come forward and do all the calculations, but I intend to build it even if all the specs are not available. The advantage is atleast I will have practical knowledge of basics.
Regards,
Vinay
the problem
is a have a feeling that these tympohanies are reject lots of an oem
6 ohm and 12 ohm
it will be difficult to have a proper published value for these drivers
i hope linux finds them
just saying these are similar to X driver and one should assume the TS from there
is just a shot in the dark
there has to be proper documentation connecting to the actual driver sold
is there a part no. on this thing ?
is a have a feeling that these tympohanies are reject lots of an oem
6 ohm and 12 ohm
it will be difficult to have a proper published value for these drivers
i hope linux finds them
just saying these are similar to X driver and one should assume the TS from there
is just a shot in the dark
there has to be proper documentation connecting to the actual driver sold
is there a part no. on this thing ?
@keith
you know the TS specs on these are quite diff from the w4 original right ?
Vifa TG9FD-10-04 3-1/2" Glass Fiber Cone Full Range
the sim ( TS ) for this typmpahny
becomes important now
the TL may or may not yeild dividents
but A sealed enclosure seems workable
you know the TS specs on these are quite diff from the w4 original right ?
Vifa TG9FD-10-04 3-1/2" Glass Fiber Cone Full Range
the sim ( TS ) for this typmpahny
becomes important now
the TL may or may not yeild dividents
but A sealed enclosure seems workable
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
I think Bjorn simmed the TG9FD and gave his approval for suitability in the TABAQ. I'm pretty sure that it's there buried in that thread.
A sealed enclosure will not have low frequency response worth considering. Since the driver resonance is around 110Hz you can not expect a low frequency response below that. A TL can enhance response half octave below resonance through the terminus in an ATL design. I have seen in Peerless drivers the quoted resonance is at 125Hz but the measured resonance is around 153Hz. Even after this the low frequency response is around 60Hz after measuring.
Cheers,
cool
but ...
a 5 watter ( 85bd ) in a TL ??
You put that in a TL and drive it full range without a cap to cut of the lows
and your gonna fry it pretty easy na ?
what linux built
was more apt - dont you think ?
a shoe box speaker
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@magma
I do agree that without sim you cannot build any speaker let only the Tymphs.
Also if the speakers gets fried in a TL then i am more than 100% sure that it will get fried in a sealed enclosure too. Reason - the impedance at resonance is atleast 50% more in a sealed enclosure than in a TL speaker. Hence you will need to use a capacitors (whenn using in a sealed enclosure) to prevent those frequencies to reach the driver to protect them.
But in an ATL the impedance at resonance is much lower than in a sealed encloure and therefore it allows better control of the mechnical Q of the driver than in sealed enclosure design. One more approach could be to use it in an Aperiodic enclosure than a standard sealed enclosure.
I have already mentioned my concerns about this driver in an earlier post for design with this driver.
Cheers,
I do agree that without sim you cannot build any speaker let only the Tymphs.
Also if the speakers gets fried in a TL then i am more than 100% sure that it will get fried in a sealed enclosure too. Reason - the impedance at resonance is atleast 50% more in a sealed enclosure than in a TL speaker. Hence you will need to use a capacitors (whenn using in a sealed enclosure) to prevent those frequencies to reach the driver to protect them.
But in an ATL the impedance at resonance is much lower than in a sealed encloure and therefore it allows better control of the mechnical Q of the driver than in sealed enclosure design. One more approach could be to use it in an Aperiodic enclosure than a standard sealed enclosure.
I have already mentioned my concerns about this driver in an earlier post for design with this driver.
Cheers,
this is correct
hari
you are correct
but my logic is
5watter 500 buck speaker
in a tl
too much effort
a sealed box is much easier to build and apt for this with a cap
or an aperiodic as you say
I just found the specs (including published T/S parameters) for exactly this driver by pure chance last night at Parts Express:
Tymphany TYPY03W06O0111 3-1/2" Full Range Driver
(The reason it did not show up during my earlier searches is that Parts Express made a typo in the parts # for the speaker - it is actually TPY..., but they show it as TYPY... - which of course does not get matched during searches through Search Engines. You can see that the correct part number is TPY... from the picture at the link shown above, which is identical to the driver I have in hand.)
So in short, this is a woven-Kevlar cone, 30W, 6-ohm driver with Fs=123 Hz and Qts=0.95 - highly usable in the TABAQ and a wide variety of MLTLs, tapered horns, etc., IMHO. However, Fs is slightly higher than that of the glass-fibre cone TG9FD, which is rated at 110 Hz or so. But the pros outweigh the cons - it can handle 30W vs. 10W of the TG9FD, and it has a 6-ohm impedance which is more suitable for a wide variety of small gainclones and Class-A amps like the AmpCamp.
As for their being rejects, there are a few with dented dust caps, which I'll filter out and retain for my own use and experimentation, but almost all the others look to be cosmetically perfect. There may be a few with slightly blemished flange foam gaskets (which were intended for use when rear-mounted on baffles, but are not required when front-mounted).
Tymphany TYPY03W06O0111 3-1/2" Full Range Driver
(The reason it did not show up during my earlier searches is that Parts Express made a typo in the parts # for the speaker - it is actually TPY..., but they show it as TYPY... - which of course does not get matched during searches through Search Engines. You can see that the correct part number is TPY... from the picture at the link shown above, which is identical to the driver I have in hand.)
So in short, this is a woven-Kevlar cone, 30W, 6-ohm driver with Fs=123 Hz and Qts=0.95 - highly usable in the TABAQ and a wide variety of MLTLs, tapered horns, etc., IMHO. However, Fs is slightly higher than that of the glass-fibre cone TG9FD, which is rated at 110 Hz or so. But the pros outweigh the cons - it can handle 30W vs. 10W of the TG9FD, and it has a 6-ohm impedance which is more suitable for a wide variety of small gainclones and Class-A amps like the AmpCamp.
As for their being rejects, there are a few with dented dust caps, which I'll filter out and retain for my own use and experimentation, but almost all the others look to be cosmetically perfect. There may be a few with slightly blemished flange foam gaskets (which were intended for use when rear-mounted on baffles, but are not required when front-mounted).
Moreover Aperiodics are easier to build and can use the same Vb as the sealed box. Also damping needs to be less than a sealed design allowing the air to pass through the variovents. If building aperiodic i will suggest equal distribution smaller vents at all 4 sides than one single vent in one corner.
:yahoo: :clapping: Great find Siva. You have removed many doubts (including 5 watters). Thank you for taking the pain. Now since original specs are available for these drivers, I am hoping that someone will come forward and run the necessary simulations required.
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I just managed to assemble a pair of TABAQ-like MLTL cabinets with the Tymphany drivers for testing and auditioning. Here's a pic of one of them:
I did not use any stuffing and omitted the BSC network, just
for convenience to get a quick idea of the sonics.
My preliminary impressions: It works, and sub-100 Hz bass is
present in abundance. However, it is too bright in the upper-mids
and highs, which will have to be tamed with a combination
of light foam lining of the closed end of the pipe, as well as
a Baffle-Step Compensation (BSC) network.
I did not use any stuffing and omitted the BSC network, just
for convenience to get a quick idea of the sonics.
My preliminary impressions: It works, and sub-100 Hz bass is
present in abundance. However, it is too bright in the upper-mids
and highs, which will have to be tamed with a combination
of light foam lining of the closed end of the pipe, as well as
a Baffle-Step Compensation (BSC) network.
I located a professional cabinet builder who builds speaker cabinets for assembled HT speakers as well as autos, maxicabs, buses, etc. with MDF and decorative black laminate. I spoke to and gave him two box designs:
1) a simple 5" sealed cubical enclosure with two cutouts - front for the speaker, and rear for the connector, to be used for HT satellite, sound bar/dock and various other price-sensitive applications where bass response is not critical.
2) A folded mass-loaded transmission line similar to the folded TABAQ (with changes for the Tymphany driver and aesthetics - e.g. rounded edges on 4 sides, etc.). I asked for prototypes in pinkish 12mm MDF with *no* decorative mica laminate attached.
He was able to do it in less than a week (in addition to his normal production work), and it was surprisingly good work. I still have to get the price from him in larger quantity, which should be reasonable as long as it is unfinished, and delivered in Chennai - it's too big to ship elsewhere.
The grey colour visible in the pic comes from my own ham-handed attempt to use a rattle-can spray to coat it with Siemens Grey aerosol spray paint. It's a bit of a mess, since I did it without primer, but it's still OK, since the colour is an unobtrusive pastel similar to the underlying pink MDF. It would have been a disaster if I had used a bright (say Caterpillar Orange or Bright Silver) or dark colour instead.
musiklava79
Active Member
I just managed to assemble a pair of TABAQ-like MLTL cabinets with the Tymphany drivers for testing and auditioning. Here's a pic of one of them:
I did not use any stuffing and omitted the BSC network, just
for convenience to get a quick idea of the sonics.
My preliminary impressions: It works, and sub-100 Hz bass is
present in abundance. However, it is too bright in the upper-mids
and highs, which will have to be tamed with a combination
of light foam lining of the closed end of the pipe, as well as
a Baffle-Step Compensation (BSC) network.
Great going, linuxguru. :clapping:
Those rounded edges are especially drool-worthy!
Waiting to hear about your listening impressions after completing the build.
Good work Siva.:clapping:
This is why is the old saying: 'Proof of the pudding is in eating'
Physically listening to the gear is far more relevant than specifications, measurements, simulations et al.
Our forum's TL guru did some stimulations which he has shared in this post and stated this:
Had the roll off begun at 2.5 kHz, surely the phenomenon of brightness in the upper-mids and highs would not have been audible. May be things would settle down after some break-in.
@ Captain Rajesh
My analysis was clearly for discussion purpose based on published TS parameters based onfree air mounting. IIt's a well known documented fact that driver when mounted in an enclosure changes its behaviour because of the enclosure tuning . The driver has its own resonance behaviour and so do the enclosure. When both are combined and gelled properly they become a speaker system .If any passive device is added they too contribute to the electrical and acoustic character.
My analysis was clearly for discussion purpose based on published TS parameters based onfree air mounting. IIt's a well known documented fact that driver when mounted in an enclosure changes its behaviour because of the enclosure tuning . The driver has its own resonance behaviour and so do the enclosure. When both are combined and gelled properly they become a speaker system .If any passive device is added they too contribute to the electrical and acoustic character.
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