Tymphany custom OEM surplus drivers group buy

[musiklava79]

Guys, rather than restricting sharing of information via PMs, all the information of nonpersonal nature could be shared on the thread for the benefit of all.

Hey Capt. No offense meant but some Forums do not allow direct outside links so I PM'ed FM tnvijay with the information. Besides, this thread concerns another topic. I did not want to earn a rap on the knuckles for breaking any forum rules, so....

But if there are no objections to direct outside links, I shall be glad to share all information with HFV members. In any case I'm planning to start threads for both the Tabaq and Cornu builds in the coming days and share my experiences.

 

[linuxguru]

Re: Speaker Kit-Insane value

And what would be the impedence if 3 drivers are wired in parallel?

It would nominally be 2 ohms, which is a bit too low for a lot of amps including gainclones. But series-parallel of 4 drivers keeps it at 6 ohms.

Didn't get you. Are these only three in number?

I have four uncommitted 12 ohm drivers in hand today. There are a few additional units with the vendor, which I'll pick up later for those who want to do dual-driver setups (say, a centre speaker in a 5.1 setup). I would not advise going for a line array with the 12 ohm drivers - there may not be enough stock.

Yes, looking for various ideas. Do share if you have come across any.

Tabaq, Cornu spiral - already done by FM Musiclava-- using Founteks and similar.

Pico Lino 2 - a small TL cabinet for the 8-ohm version of this driver (should work, maybe with minor padding tweaks, with the 6-ohm version also):

https://www.hifisound.de/en/Top-off...I-PICOLINO-2-SPEAKER-KIT-WITHOUT-CABINET.html

Drawings are shown on a tab there, but a bit difficult to read on my browser. It also looks like a good candidate for foam-core build.

(There are a zillion other ideas on the full-range forum at diyAudio, will take months to years to digest.)

 

[captrajesh]

Re: Speaker Kit-Insane value

I could do a quick simulation with published parameters for the 4 ohms drivers for discussion purpose. I understand that after measurements and with 6 ohm driver the situation will be quite different. I have taken the series-parallel connection.

4 drivers in line array below is the simulated response without any compensation network. The roll-off begins at around 2.5KHz as per the simulation.

3 drivers in line arry below is the simulated response without any compensation network. The roll-off again begins at around 3KHz as per the simulation.

My noob brain is just wondering! How is that a driver whose frequency response is indicated as 110 to 10,000 kHz is beginning to roll off @ 2.5/ 3 kHz!

 

[Hari Iyer]

Re: Speaker Kit-Insane value

My noob brain is just wondering! How is that a driver whose frequency response is indicated as 110 to 10,000 kHz is beginning to roll off @ 2.5/ 3 kHz!

You can also consider roll-off @ -3dB point from the linear response if required for analysis. I have taken it from 0dB from the linear response for the discussion purpose.

I have just taken the published TS parameters from the link provided by linuxguru and fed it to my simulation software. The published data shows an voice coil inductance of 0.07mH which indicates the frequency at which the driver will begin to roll-off. Hence it is always a good practice to measure rather than go by published data. In my experience there has been 10% to 30% variation in published and actual values.

 

[har297]

It would be really helpful if experienced FM's can give a opinion on enclosures which can be used for HT applications using this driver...


Regards
Harsha

 

[canchi]

Re: Speaker Kit-Insane value

Since i will be hand crafting these speakers, will request FMs to buy the drivers directly from linuxguru and if they want the advanced TL to be build by me then have the drivers directly shipped to me through linuxguru. I will be building the TL box pair for Rs.7200/- inclusive of compensation network (will use audiophile grade components) and shipment anywhere in India (expecting it to be around Rs.800/- for major metros). This offer will be for a minimum group buy of 10 FMs. I will prefer the 6 ohms driver over the 12 ohm version.

Am pitching in to buy the finished product from Hari Iyer. Do I need to pm linuxguru for the drivers. A noob query- what about the bass response below 125?
Cheers

 

[Hari Iyer]

Re: Speaker Kit-Insane value

Am pitching in to buy the finished product from Hari Iyer. Do I need to pm linuxguru for the drivers.
Cheers

Yes you will need to contact only linuxguru. I will build only from the final list provided by linuxguru.

A noob query- what about the bass response below 125?

In my ATL design, below the tuning frequency the response will be from the terminus and not the driver. My experience is if the driver is 84dB/W/M, the response from the terminus will be around 60dB/W/M. This will be an octave below the tuning frequency (55Hz - considering resonance of 110Hz). I will be tuning the line close to the resonance of the driver after measurement.

 

[goldyrathore]

Re: Speaker Kit-Insane value

Thanks for chipping in. In fact, Line Arrays are what I and Hydrovac have decided to build and have confirmed our requirement to Linuxguru.

As one of the very few who have experimented with line arrays on HFV, your views would carry a lot of value.

How many drivers per side do you recommend?

I would recommend a tall line that covers 70 % of the floor to ceiling height. One can leave 15% space on top and bottom each side. Such a line couples acoustically to the floor and ceiling both. The effective line length due to these couplings is thus infinite.
Normal speakers fall of at 6db per doubling of distance. Such an array would fall only at 3db per doubling of distance no matter what the distance is between the array and listener. The huge number of drivers also provide more surface area that may equal a 12" driver or 15" driver. The array can thus be EQed to extend the bottom end thus eliminating the subwoofer. Connections can be usual series/parallel to arrive at amplifier friendly impedance. Such a line actually means a lot of drivers but then in turn we are eliminating the sub. This saves quite a bit of the cost. Also such drivers are very very rare and one may not see them again

If one goes for a smaller line then it must be either frequency tapered or power tapered, the usual series/parallel connections where all drivers receive the same power (across the freq range), will not work. I would suggest power taper since its easy. Such an array will definitely need a sub.

No matter what you try, you need to have acoustic measurement capability and EQ.

I have experimented with 5" tall array with 2.5" fullrange drivers, 20 drivers per side. The drivers were OEM ones that are used in some Onkyo HT sets. I found the array to have high power handling, greater sensitivity and huge dynamics. It took me quite some time to digest the fact that i was listening to 2.5" drivers, the array was so clean and effortless. At huge volumes, I did not see the cone moving, I had to touch it to feel the motion. I had crossed them at 80hz

 

[navin advani]

Re: Speaker Kit-Insane value

Hence it is always a good practice to measure rather than go by published data. In my experience there has been 10% to 30% variation in published and actual values.

Thank you sir. I have had almost the same experience.

I would recommend a tall line that covers 70 % of the floor to ceiling height. One can leave 15% space on top and bottom each side.

Have you considered curving the array? Like these?
Line Arrays Selah Audio
Axpona 2013 Day Two Highlights | A Unique Audiophile Experience
Audio Artistry

 

[goldyrathore]

Re: Speaker Kit-Insane value

Have you considered curving the array? Like these?
Line Arrays Selah Audio
Axpona 2013 Day Two Highlights | A Unique Audiophile Experience
Audio Artistry

Those are CBT arrays. I ve thought about it for long but gave it up on complexity vs performance ratio for the intended home use.

The CBT arrays are excellent in terms of vertical pattern control that they provide. They also provide same performance at any distance from the array. The array height also controls how low it maintains pattern control. This can be a huge advantage outside the home.
Horizontaly the CBT provides a wide directivity, there is no advantage horizontally.
So, given that vertical advantages of CBT cannot be fully utilised in home listening situations, the added complexity does not yield much sonic benefits.

A normal floor to celing array (or >70% height) can perform the same and also possibly eliminate the sub since all drivers are equally sharing the load. Due to floor and ceiling reflections, the user is always in the 'near field' so distance to distance variation does not exist like truncated arrays.

There will definitely be different sonic signatures from both the arrays but I wonder whether it will justify the added complexity of CBT. If I were to do a CBT, I would do a horizontal CBT rather than a vertcial for the sonic advantages. Such an array would have a very very poor WAF and take lost of horizontal real-estate

 

[captrajesh]

What's the latest on the drivers?

 

[linuxguru]

What's the latest on the drivers?

As of today, I have enough drivers to meet all requests so far, except maybe the 12 ohm ones - for which I'll go back today to see if there are some. I have also given the plans for a simple 5" x 5" x 5" cubical sealed MDF enclosure (similar to designs from Parts Express) to a cabinet maker. If the initial lot works out OK, it will be an inexpensive option for those who want a simple enclosure for HT, gainclone or 2.1 satellite applications.

 

[captrajesh]

Good going. I've taken up my speaker build of GR8 Research speakers. The X-SLS boxes are 70 % ready. In addition, I've ordered 2 pairs of Alpair 7 gold drivers for making 2 pairs of frugal horns. I intend to make a pair of Line Arrays and am looking forward to receiving these drivers.

 

[jls001]

Good going. I've taken up my speaker build of GR8 Research speakers. The X-SLS boxes are 70 % ready. In addition, I've ordered 2 pairs of Alpine 7 gold drivers for making 2 pairs of frugal horns. I intend to make a pair of Line Arrays and am looking forward to receiving these drivers.

Nice, nice. You found good carpenter for GRR speakers? What finishing do you have in mind for the GRR speakers?

You finalized line array plan?

 

[captrajesh]

Yes finally the build has started in all earnest. The carpenter is a real professional in speaker box making for theaters. It's a huge learning curve for me. As for line arrays, I won't do anything before laying my hands on those drivers.

 

[keith_correa]

The carpenter is a real professional in speaker box making for theaters. It's a huge learning curve for me.

I had found one like that. Came highly recommended because he supposedly had built enclosures for a lot of theatres in Mumbai. When I met him, he tried to give me "gyaan" on why particle board was best for building speaker enclosures because it reverberated and so "bass" sounded better. If I had started my spiel to the contrary it would have been a huge learning curve for him but I chose the easy way out - I walked away. ?

 

[captrajesh]

I had found one like that. Came highly recommended because he supposedly had built enclosures for a lot of theatres in Mumbai. When I met him, he tried to give me "gyaan" on why particle board was best for building speaker enclosures because it reverberated and so "bass" sounded better. If I had started my spiel to the contrary it would have been a huge learning curve for him but I chose the easy way out - I walked away. ?

LOL. These guys (there are two; one is the owner and the other is a working partner) are in awe looking at the stuff that I have. Vintage Tannoy Reds in DIY Rectangular GRF cabinets, DIY B1 Preamp, DIY Class D Power Amp, DIY 6 Channel Power Amp, Hundreds of CDs LPs and what have you and this 5.1 kit. I've shown them the build threads on our forum and some of those on audiocircle. They are very keen to learn about DIY hifi home audio.

When I said learning curve, I'm talking about how much professionalism is needed in making the cabinets. I hope to elaborate that in a build thread.

 

[magma]

Linux
Capt

I would be intrested in making a soundbar

Mini horizontal array with these

I need to bring the impedance down
Though
Since I plan to run it with a low watt class d amp

Any thoughts??
Basically a 35 inch soundbar

 

[goldyrathore]

A Horizontal array will have severe sonic problems due to high center-to-center between the drivers. Using these drivers as full range is a better idea even when implemented as a sound bar

 

[magma]

Hey
^^^^^

I was hoping you would add a reply

Please elaborate

I would want the soundbar to be driven by a 20 watt / channel t amp

You advice building a soundbar which is basically just 2 bookshelves joint together ?

Or doing a series parallel using 3 drivers and single cabinet
So that we can gain from the higher sensitivity
But then how do I connect to the t amp