john_k_antony
Well-Known Member
Wow man. That's a great news to hear. You made my day man
. I am going to do the "surgery" today and see how it sounds
.
Upgraded my Vinyl setup
- Thread starter john_k_antony
- Start date
Wow man. That's a great news to hear. You made my day man
. I am going to do the "surgery" today and see how it sounds
.
sachu888
Well-Known Member
Wow man. That's a great news to hear. You made my day man
I am going to do the "surgery" today and see how it sounds
Keep us posted.I know you are going to enjoy this cart.You may need to wait 20-30 hrs to settle in this cart.
Regards,
Sachin
john_k_antony
Well-Known Member
I'd second the above. The Super OM10/20/30/40 are great MM carts. If it wasn't too damned costly, I'd have bought a replacement OM40 stylus. It retails for $250+ the last time I checked and I just couldn't get myself to plonk that much dough. My view being that even a new Denon DL103 costs lesser (leaving aside the fact that one needs an arm that can take the heavy 103).
But it should certainly work on your Debut's arm as the OM30 is very high compliance.
john_k_antony
Well-Known Member
Hey All,
I did the stylus upgrade today. Now my Debut is running with following upgrades
1. OM 30 Stylus
2. Speed Box II
3. Acryl It Platter
I added the speed box and acryl it first before changing the stylus. I could notice a great improvement in clarity and details. However the mid range and low end was not up to the mark. Overall it was sounding "thin".
Today I upgraded the stylus to OM30. I did hear a noticeable improvement in the mid range. The highs was still great and not sharp at all. Overall the details was good. There was a slight improvement in the low end, but nothing significant.
To be frank, I didn't get the sound improvement I expected from the OM30. I was expecting it to give me a significant improvement in sound quality along with tighter low end. But that was not the case.
However, my rest of the chain is also not top end. My phono stage is the entry level phono box MM from Pro-Ject and I dont have a dedicated stereo amp. I am using Denon 2310 AVR and my speakers are Kef Q7, which are already bass shy. I have set the Denon to Pure Direct mode when listening to LP. However if I set it to Stereo, I do get better bass, but the "warmth" of listening to LP is gone. I tend to hear more digital flavor.
My next step would be to wait till the OM30 burn in for another 30+ hours and see if there are any improvements.
Any ways, soon I will be getting a tube pre+power amp and better speakers. Also I will look around for a good phono stage. I am also thinking about sachu's CNC DIY phono preamp.
That's all for now. Will update you guys after the stylus has properly burnt in.
Thanks,
John.
I did the stylus upgrade today. Now my Debut is running with following upgrades
1. OM 30 Stylus
2. Speed Box II
3. Acryl It Platter
I added the speed box and acryl it first before changing the stylus. I could notice a great improvement in clarity and details. However the mid range and low end was not up to the mark. Overall it was sounding "thin".
Today I upgraded the stylus to OM30. I did hear a noticeable improvement in the mid range. The highs was still great and not sharp at all. Overall the details was good. There was a slight improvement in the low end, but nothing significant.
To be frank, I didn't get the sound improvement I expected from the OM30
. I was expecting it to give me a significant improvement in sound quality along with tighter low end. But that was not the case.However, my rest of the chain is also not top end. My phono stage is the entry level phono box MM from Pro-Ject and I dont have a dedicated stereo amp. I am using Denon 2310 AVR and my speakers are Kef Q7, which are already bass shy. I have set the Denon to Pure Direct mode when listening to LP. However if I set it to Stereo, I do get better bass, but the "warmth" of listening to LP is gone. I tend to hear more digital flavor.
My next step would be to wait till the OM30 burn in for another 30+ hours and see if there are any improvements.
Any ways, soon I will be getting a tube pre+power amp and better speakers. Also I will look around for a good phono stage. I am also thinking about sachu's CNC DIY phono preamp.
That's all for now. Will update you guys after the stylus has properly burnt in.
Thanks,
John.
00@John: since you have changed cartridge, check following:
1) Check if you have set the correct tracking weight
2) Check if the vertical tracking angle is correct. When the stylus is resting on the record surface (don't spin), is the tonearm tube parallel to the record surface (with your eyes at arm tube level).
And of course allow it to put in more hours.
1) Check if you have set the correct tracking weight
2) Check if the vertical tracking angle is correct. When the stylus is resting on the record surface (don't spin), is the tonearm tube parallel to the record surface (with your eyes at arm tube level).
And of course allow it to put in more hours.
john_k_antony
Well-Known Member
Actually I only changed the stylus. Not the entire cartridge. But I have set the tracking weight to what is recommended for the stylus.
My tonearm doesn't have VTA adjustment. So even if its incorrect, I don't think I will be able to change that. Or is there any way ?
Thanks,
John.
My tonearm doesn't have VTA adjustment
. So even if its incorrect, I don't think I will be able to change that. Or is there any way ?Thanks,
John.
Actually I only changed the stylus. Not the entire cartridge. But I have set the tracking weight to what is recommended for the stylus.
My tonearm doesn't have VTA adjustment
Thanks,
John.
Which is your cartridge? Did you buy only replacement stylus for OM 30, or the whole cartridge including stylus? AFAIK, stylus for OM 10, 20, 30 and 40 fit on same body.
Look for a large screw or Allen key at the base of the tonearm. You should be able to loosen this screw and raise or lower the tonearm height. JUST MAKE SURE YOU TAKE GREAT CARE NOT TO DAMAGE YOUR CARTRIDGE WHILE DOING ALL THIS!
sachu888
Well-Known Member
Hi John,
You will get a better performance from a two channel amp than AVR.You can try DIY CNC Phono as well.This will give you a better performance over Project Phono box.Allow your cart to burn in for 30+hrs to reach any conclusion.
Regards,
Sachin
You will get a better performance from a two channel amp than AVR.You can try DIY CNC Phono as well.This will give you a better performance over Project Phono box.Allow your cart to burn in for 30+hrs to reach any conclusion.
Regards,
Sachin
soulforged
Well-Known Member
The 'thin' sound that you are getting is exactly the way I describe the sound I get through my Project Phono Box SE. Apart from what Sachin and others are saying about Cartridge/Tonearm adjustment, I feel that your phonostage is prime factor here...
Shivam
Well-Known Member
A lot depends on the LPs that you are using. Before changing/upgrading anything try your turntable with some good pressings.
I have seen a lot of Indian pressings of various albums sounding thin with OM5e and ProJect phono and the same albums sound superb when an American or a German pressing is played.
I have seen a lot of Indian pressings of various albums sounding thin with OM5e and ProJect phono and the same albums sound superb when an American or a German pressing is played.
john_k_antony
Well-Known Member
Hey Shivam,
I got some American pressing this time from US. Even they sounded pretty thin
.@John: repeating my above question - trying to understand if you have tried to mix and match cart and stylus.
john_k_antony
Well-Known Member
I just changed the stylus keeping the old cart body of stock om5e. I checked with needle doctor before purchase of the stylus and they said om30 stylus on om5e cart body wil do wonders. But later when I asked ortofon guys about the same, the said it was a waste of money . They said the I would get the maximum benefit from om10 in debut III. They said anything above om10 is useless in debut III. Well a " very expensive " lesson learnt!
. They said the I would get the maximum benefit from om10 in debut III. They said anything above om10 is useless in debut III. Well a " very expensive " lesson learnt!john_k_antony
Well-Known Member
Update on the stylus OM 30 after playing it for a while...
1. The track ability of OM 30 stylus is simply SUPERB. OM 30 glides through the grooves of some of my old records like a charm. My older OM 5E used to struggle a lot with some of my old records. But OM 30 smoothly glides through the grooves. As I have a lots of old records, I am really happy with the OM30 performance.
2. The cracks and pops and other nagging noise from few of my old records has literally vanished with this stylus. I was really amazed with this.
3. The level of details OM 30 pulls out of the records is just amazing.
I talked to Prithvi from Absolute Phase regarding the low bass performance of my setup. He said the weak link is my Denon 2310 AVR. Any way I am going to upgrade my stereo setup to a tube amp and high end speakers soon.
However I got some bass by switching the Denon to "Stereo" mode. Earlier I was using the "Pure Direct" mode.
I think OM30 is much much superior to OM 5E in terms of track ability and extracting details. Also in reducing cracks and pops and other annoying noise while playing older records.
Thanks,
John.
1. The track ability of OM 30 stylus is simply SUPERB. OM 30 glides through the grooves of some of my old records like a charm. My older OM 5E used to struggle a lot with some of my old records. But OM 30 smoothly glides through the grooves
. As I have a lots of old records, I am really happy with the OM30 performance.2. The cracks and pops and other nagging noise from few of my old records has literally vanished with this stylus. I was really amazed with this.
3. The level of details OM 30 pulls out of the records is just amazing.
I talked to Prithvi from Absolute Phase regarding the low bass performance of my setup. He said the weak link is my Denon 2310 AVR. Any way I am going to upgrade my stereo setup to a tube amp and high end speakers soon.
However I got some bass by switching the Denon to "Stereo" mode. Earlier I was using the "Pure Direct" mode.
I think OM30 is much much superior to OM 5E in terms of track ability and extracting details. Also in reducing cracks and pops and other annoying noise while playing older records.
Thanks,
John.
Hi John,
You are right that the Super OM 30 stylus is much better than the OM 5E. It is not clear to me after reading your recent posts if you bought the full Super OM 30 cartridge or you just bought the stylus (the needle part) and attached it to the OM 5E body.
As Joshua has pointed out earlier that the Super OM 10, 20 30 and 40 bodies are all same, the difference lies in the stylus (actually the cut - elliptic, fine line etc and the attachment of the diamond - nude etc). But, the OM5E body is much more basic than the Super OM series' advanced body, and hence if you attach the Super OM needle stylus to the OM5E body, you will not get the full benefit of the Super OM cartridge. The body (also known as the cart engine) is responsible for converting the mechanical signals received through the cantilever into electric signals.
Hence, if you bought the full Super OM 30 cart, you should remove the OM 5E body from the headshell and attach the full new cart, regardless of whether the Debut III can do full justice to it or not. Of course, in this case, you will have to very carefully mount the full cart and align it according to the rules of the game. Bangalore has a few experts in this business, and if you do not feel confident of doing it yourself alone, you should take their help.
If you bought the full cart, there is one more thing, you should know. The full Super OM carts have a detachable weight on top of the cart body. If I remember it correctly, removing this will lower the mass of the cart by 2.5 gms. Depending on the effective mass of the tonearm and calculating he resonance freq, you may or may not want to remove this extra weight. In my case with the Scheu Cello TT with a Rega RB 251 arm, this was removed to produce a better value for the resonance freq, but the RB251 is perhaps is slightly heavier than the Pro-Ject 8.6 arm in your case.
Regards.
You are right that the Super OM 30 stylus is much better than the OM 5E. It is not clear to me after reading your recent posts if you bought the full Super OM 30 cartridge or you just bought the stylus (the needle part) and attached it to the OM 5E body.
As Joshua has pointed out earlier that the Super OM 10, 20 30 and 40 bodies are all same, the difference lies in the stylus (actually the cut - elliptic, fine line etc and the attachment of the diamond - nude etc). But, the OM5E body is much more basic than the Super OM series' advanced body, and hence if you attach the Super OM needle stylus to the OM5E body, you will not get the full benefit of the Super OM cartridge. The body (also known as the cart engine) is responsible for converting the mechanical signals received through the cantilever into electric signals.
Hence, if you bought the full Super OM 30 cart, you should remove the OM 5E body from the headshell and attach the full new cart, regardless of whether the Debut III can do full justice to it or not. Of course, in this case, you will have to very carefully mount the full cart and align it according to the rules of the game. Bangalore has a few experts in this business, and if you do not feel confident of doing it yourself alone, you should take their help.
If you bought the full cart, there is one more thing, you should know. The full Super OM carts have a detachable weight on top of the cart body. If I remember it correctly, removing this will lower the mass of the cart by 2.5 gms. Depending on the effective mass of the tonearm and calculating he resonance freq, you may or may not want to remove this extra weight. In my case with the Scheu Cello TT with a Rega RB 251 arm, this was removed to produce a better value for the resonance freq, but the RB251 is perhaps is slightly heavier than the Pro-Ject 8.6 arm in your case.
Regards.
john_k_antony
Well-Known Member
I just got the OM 30 stylus. Not the full OM Super cart. I attached OM 30 stylus to OM 5E cart body. I know that I am not getting the full power of the OM30 stylus. However, it did improve the tracking and details a lot.
I didn't want to change the cart now as I am not sure how to fiddle around with it and then the pain of calibrating and aligning the new cart. So I took the shortcut, just try changing the stylus keeping the cart body intact.
May be my next upgrade would be to try out an MC cart when the current OM 30 wears out. I already got Acryl It platter that is very much needed for using an MC cart on Debut III.
John.
I didn't want to change the cart now as I am not sure how to fiddle around with it and then the pain of calibrating and aligning the new cart. So I took the shortcut, just try changing the stylus keeping the cart body intact
.May be my next upgrade would be to try out an MC cart when the current OM 30 wears out. I already got Acryl It platter that is very much needed for using an MC cart on Debut III.
John.
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