Upscaling to 1080p issues with Receivers - best choice?

[Kelpie]

There seems to be one issue, the Onkyo 606 upscales only HDMI i not p from other non HDMI sources like Satellite TV, Cable, etc. however, the HK 255 upscales to HDMI p. . . I checked the 705 it is not clear on the site about whether it upscales to i or p. Can some of you please help me with this? If I am investing in a AV receiver which I believe will last me at least 3 years from now, it has to be reasonably future proof (I know it is Blue Ray ready etc. but upscaling TV inputs is imp too. . . appreciate some words of advice here. Thanks

 

[marsilians]

Upscaling is dependent on your source resolution. If your source is 480i, then you wont see any better in 1080P. What I am trying to say is that don't stress over 1080P upscaling if you don't use Blu-Ray or PS3 (internally BR anyway).

A better adjustment would be to see difference between 720P & 1080i. My TV is set to 720P as I think it more clear than the i.

 

[venkatcr]

The 705 does the following:

HDTV-Capable HDMI Switching
HDTV-Capable (50 MHz) Component Video Switching (3 Inputs and 1 Output)
HDMI and Component Video Upconversion

It uses a Fardoudja DCDI chip for de-interlacing and up-conversion to 1080P.

Cheers

 

[Kelpie]

Thanks Mars and Venkat, appreciate the quick response. My TV is a Samsung 40 inch 1080p, the source is a LG DVD Player with HD Out, my issues with the Onkyo 606 was the upscaling other video (it does 1080 p pass through) like my Tata Sky (where I watch my premier league etc.) to 1080 i whereas the HK AVR 255 upscales it to 1080 p.

Now my dilemma is whether this difference is significant or not and moreover, am I reasonably future proofed or not.

100% video use only, of that 60% television and 40% movies.

 

[marsilians]

my issues with the Onkyo 606 was the upscaling other video (it does 1080 p pass through) like my Tata Sky (where I watch my premier league etc.) to 1080 i whereas the HK AVR 255 upscales it to 1080 p

I don't watch too much of the premier league but have seen couple games. I believe a simple test will put your doubts to rest.
Without the AVR hooked up, connect the video out from the sat cable box (HDMI or component) to your TV and check the resolution.

If it says 1080i or 720P, then there is nothing for you to do but just hooking up your Onkyo for HT

If it says 480i then you can only "upscale" to 1080i or 720P. There is no way you can get to 1080 P.

Besides all the fuss about 1080 P, did you know that you get the best resolution (optimal picture) ONLY for 1080P 24 frames/sec refresh rate or a multiple of it is required. Otherwise your TV is scaling down the pic even if your AVR shows a 1080P upconversion.

Now my dilemma is whether this difference is significant

Based on my comments above I would be very surprised if you saw a difference. But we will wait for your test results as its all in the eyes of the viewer.

am I reasonably future proofed or not.

If you see the history of how "future proof" we all have been, then for electronics its a total myth as we explore the "next best thing". The most notable examples of where we are future proofed is our homes (if you own one) or families as wedon't tend to replace them as often.


Back to your original Q,
The list below are some TVs that support 1080p 24 fps and even they are fraught with quality issues. also see no Samsung or LG though some newer ones in the last 6-9 months have supported these. The list is about a yr old though.

Hitachi P50X902 (48HZ Plasma)
Hitachi P50V702 (48HZ Plasma)
Hitachi P50S602 (48HZ Plasma)
Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-101FD 50 Plasma (72HZ)
Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-141FD 60 Plasma (72HZ)
Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-111FD 50 Plasma (72HZ)
Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-151FD 60 Plasma (72HZ)
Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD 50 Plasma (72HZ)
Pioneer Kuro PDP-6020FD 60 Plasma (72HZ)

Following plasma's though support multiple of 24fps caused some crazy flickering and were replaced when someone complained about it with a true HD signal (blu-ray or HD DVDs)

Panasonic TH-58PZ800U (48HZ Plasma)
Panasonic TH-50PZ800U (48HZ Plasma)
Panasonic TH-46PZ800U (48HZ Plasma)
Panasonic TH-42PZ800U (48HZ Plasma)
Panasonic TH-65PZ850U(48HZ Plasma)
Panasonic TH-46PZ850U(48HZ Plasma)

 

[Kelpie]

Thanks a ton Marsillians,

The decision was not on the TV, as that is already bought and running, it is a Full HD Samsung LCD TV.

The question was on the receiver and its capability to upscale to 1080p or 1080i, since the Onkyo did 1080i on the Sat and other inputs, whereas the 255 upscaled all to 1080p, was in a dilemma as the Onkyo is reputed and advised to be a better AVR.

The TV is 1080p full HD

Cheers Thanks again, looking forward to your reply.

 

[marsilians]

My point was to check your TV first for the input signal before asking your AVR to do some sort of black magic.

Also the examples I provided below re: TVs was that even if your AVR pulled through the TV might end up being the limiting factor. So, go ahead and post the test results.

 

[venkatcr]

Kelpie:

I am writing this with the assumption that you are in the market for an AVR that can upscale to 1080P. The second assumption is your LG DVD Player up scales to 1080P

There are a couple of things you have to keep in mind.

1. In this mad rush for Full HD and 1080P, many of us are missing an important reason for an AVR - good surround sound.

2. The capability of the AVR to play music well - this again comes down to sound.

3. Manufacturers such as Onkyo, Denon, and Yamaha are realising this. Marantz has gone one step forward. They have completely avoided scaling in all models other than their topmost models.

4. By 2011, Blu-Ray (or some variant) will become very common. Then scaling will not be needed unless some idiot comes with a 1620P or something.

5. Full HD makes sense only if you are watching it on a TV that has a minimum size of 42 inches. For anything less than that, you will not be able to discern any difference between 720P and 1080P signals. This has got to do with what is called acuity of the eye. I have a detailed posting on this. Please check http://www.hifivision.com/television/1604-whats-difference-between-hd-ready-full-hd.html for more details.

6. Many DVD Players are providing full 1080P upscaling, and this is sufficient for seeing DVD based materials.

So what do we have here? I understand your excitement to get an AVR that can scale to 1080P. It basically boils down to budget. The AVRs I know that upscales to full 1080P start around 50,000 or more. These include Denon 1909, Onkyo 705/706, Yamaha 863, Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K and similar models from other companies.

Cheers

 

[Kelpie]

Thanks a ton Marsilians and Venkat (yes I read the detail earlier). I guess you have hit the nail on the head, it is the ability to distinguish which limits the choice. And yes the surround sound etc. I guess that just closes the topic and I go out and purchase the 705 (706 is not available in India). And I drop the HK AVR 255.

I tried to find out the resolution of the Tata SKY feed to my TV, could not figure out how

So am ditching further research and getting the Onkyo705 and setting up

Thanks again for all he help, and Moserw thanks for the emphatic Onkyo vote

 

[moserw]

4. By 2011, Blu-Ray (or some variant) will become very common. Then scaling will nit be needed unless some idiot comes with a 1620P or something.

Ha ha! Totally agree with you Venkat. Incidentally I was reading that Quad HDTV at 2160p is being worked on in Japan and will start shipping (expectedly) in 2014/2015.

 

[RSRAMESH]

Thanks a ton Marsilians and Venkat (yes I read the detail earlier). I guess you have hit the nail on the head, it is the ability to distinguish which limits the choice. And yes the surround sound etc. I guess that just closes the topic and I go out and purchase the 705 (706 is not available in India). And I drop the HK AVR 255.

I tried to find out the resolution of the Tata SKY feed to my TV, could not figure out how

So am ditching further research and getting the Onkyo705 and setting up

Thanks again for all he help, and Moserw thanks for the emphatic Onkyo vote

I do wanted to know how to identify my input signal resolution, can some one please let me know how to check this.

Thanks
Ramesh S