What to upgrade first?

[MaSh]

So i am really confused as to what should i uograde in my home theatre first?
My current gear is pioneer vsx 831( entry level receiver) and polk audio rti a7( L &R) and csia4(C).
I wud be celebrating 1 year anniversary for my setup and looking for some upgrade. In this one year it turned out that my avr was used 80% for music and 20% for movies. And i was satisfied with movie performance but not with music.
I ran a thread earlier as to why m i not getting good musical performance but results have been more or less same.
So in short i want to know what should add first
1) a subwoofer
2) an integrated amplifier
3) a high end receiver like pioneer lx series

My receiver doesnt have pre outs.
I mostly play music through amazon fire tv ( through youtube and gaana app)
And i dont have any blu ray player as of now.

Thanks in advance!

Hey Hi,

Some great suggestions already given. I would just add a little bit to it.

First, for movies you absolutely need a Subwoofer. For music, you can use it too, for just that little bit of oomph. Second, a Stereo amp will beat an AVR when it comes to Music. So get an Integrated amp from NAD, Cambridge, etc. Add a DAC to it with inputs suitable to your source and that should give you a sure shot improvement without a huge investment. You can go in with Pre used Stereo Amp and a Simple DAC such as Chromecast Audio(wireless), Fiio Q1(USB) to get started and get a taste for an improvement. If you see an improvement, you will have a clear idea on the direction to head into.

You might need a switch to use the same set of Speakers with a Receiver and an Amp. Not too difficult to find one.

MaSh

 

[prateekatasniya]

Hey Hi,

Some great suggestions already given. I would just add a little bit to it.

First, for movies you absolutely need a Subwoofer. For music, you can use it too, for just that little bit of oomph. Second, a Stereo amp will beat an AVR when it comes to Music. So get an Integrated amp from NAD, Cambridge, etc. Add a DAC to it with inputs suitable to your source and that should give you a sure shot improvement without a huge investment. You can go in with Pre used Stereo Amp and a Simple DAC such as Chromecast Audio(wireless), Fiio Q1(USB) to get started and get a taste for an improvement. If you see an improvement, you will have a clear idea on the direction to head into.

You might need a switch to use the same set of Speakers with a Receiver and an Amp. Not too difficult to find one.

MaSh

You are right.. but these speakers give below 30hz in room performance if played with a powerful enough amp.

 

[MaSh]

You are right.. but these speakers give below 30hz in room performance if played with a powerful enough amp.

No matter how powerful an amp. It's only the headroom that's available. A speaker can be anything on paper, it cannot do what a subwoofer can. I would prefer adding a sub, crossing the speakers for mid and high only. Everything runs unstained with sufficient headroom for better dynamics.

MaSh

 

[prateekatasniya]

No matter how powerful an amp. It's only the headroom that's available. A speaker can be anything on paper, it cannot do what a subwoofer can. I would prefer adding a sub, crossing the speakers for mid and high only. Everything runs unstained with sufficient headroom for better dynamics.

MaSh

Then why to buy such big speakers?
These can take 300 watts .

Will smaller speakers with subwoofer sound better?

 

[MaSh]

Then why to buy such big speakers?
These can take 300 watts .

Will smaller speakers with subwoofer sound better?

He he why buy speakers for watts? Buy the speakers for their sound quality. If small was good then the 2w 2 inch speaker in the LED TVs would be considered very good. No?

MaSh

 

[Akshit2111]

I am sorry guys i am really new to all this. I am sorry for sounding a bit confused and i am quite obliged your kind suggestions.
So if any person who can put all this in simpler terms it'll be quite helpful.
1)So i wud purchase crown audio xls 1502 a pro amplifier with good wattage which suits my speaker which i read is for outside use than home so some other threads said it wont be as clean as an marrants or nad or cambridge with less power please someone can clarify this.
2) Now to run this amp a pre amp is required, now why is a pre amp required actually.. just to take an input source? Like the pre amp wud have usb? Bluetooth? If this is the only use cant i connect suppose a blu ray player with rca with this amplifier? Like how can we match a pre amp with this amplifier. (Like watts or the other stuff)
3) how can i save some bucks on the pre amp thing.. is there anything which is equally good but cheaper?

 

[tuff]

Guys, I think the OP mentioned he wants a better musical experience from his speakers. One reason i mentioned Crown is because it has a very analog sound, the mid range is really sweet, and it if it can control my magnepan 1.7's like a boss, it will definitely do justice to the Polk speakers. I have used 4 different power amps to my speakers and none sounded as sweet as this one.

 

[tuff]

I am sorry guys i am really new to all this. I am sorry for sounding a bit confused and i am quite obliged your kind suggestions.
So if any person who can put all this in simpler terms it'll be quite helpful.
1)So i wud purchase crown audio xls 1502 a pro amplifier with good wattage which suits my speaker which i read is for outside use than home so some other threads said it wont be as clean as an marrants or nad or cambridge with less power please someone can clarify this.
2) Now to run this amp a pre amp is required, now why is a pre amp required actually.. just to take an input source? Like the pre amp wud have usb? Bluetooth? If this is the only use cant i connect suppose a blu ray player with rca with this amplifier? Like how can we match a pre amp with this amplifier. (Like watts or the other stuff)
3) how can i save some bucks on the pre amp thing.. is there anything which is equally good but cheaper?

Good questions.
1)The crown amp has lower distortion and lower noise floor(very important in an amp). Because they are well built to be tossed on tours and events, they don't have fancy looking plates, and anyone who says that the Crown XLS has no place in home,has never heard one. There are users around the world who have paired this amp with speakers in the range of 2 to 10 lakhs. Even sensitive speakers sing with it because of its smoothness.
You may want to read this one thread out of hundreds on the net singing praise for its musical abilities.https://www.stereophile.com/content/crown-xls-series-any-good-severe-bargain-pro-amp
a preamp is what you need to control your source and volume. If you get something like the Schitt SYS, around 6000RS, it's a passive preamp, it has two RCA inputs, and one RCA output that goes into the power amp. But then you will need a DAC (again easy to find something in your budget.)
You can plug a Bluetooth adapter, But Chromecast is better IMHO.
3) I think the answer is in the above point #2.
Now , When you buy an AVR ,You are paying for a lot of things that a stereo setup does not need, like HDMI connectivity, Dolby,DTS codecs, room correction software,and a host of DSP features that may or may not be used at all. So all these features are not needed when it comes to music only playback.

 

[prateekatasniya]

I am sorry guys i am really new to all this. I am sorry for sounding a bit confused and i am quite obliged your kind suggestions.
So if any person who can put all this in simpler terms it'll be quite helpful.
1)So i wud purchase crown audio xls 1502 a pro amplifier with good wattage which suits my speaker which i read is for outside use than home so some other threads said it wont be as clean as an marrants or nad or cambridge with less power please someone can clarify this.
2) Now to run this amp a pre amp is required, now why is a pre amp required actually.. just to take an input source? Like the pre amp wud have usb? Bluetooth? If this is the only use cant i connect suppose a blu ray player with rca with this amplifier? Like how can we match a pre amp with this amplifier. (Like watts or the other stuff)
3) how can i save some bucks on the pre amp thing.. is there anything which is equally good but cheaper?

Forum member aniket might have product suitable for your requirement within your budget. He is from Delhi too. Talk to him once.

 

[Akshit2111]

So my last two questions.
1) what exactly is a dsp?
2) now i was being suggested this dsp coz my receiver did not have pre outs. This requires an investment of 44k and 26k for amplifier.. now what if i change my receiver get one with pre outs lets say a good marrantz model which is like 2 3 years older model but with pre outs and connect this crown power amlifier to it? Will this be fine as compared iffi idsp as suggested.. do AVR'S inbuilt dac good enough for power amplifiers.. if this would do then it'll be better as a better AVR wud be an upgradation for future as well.

 

[rpmahale]

You may select Marantz NR1508 AVR with front pre out which can be connected to power amplifier for better stereo performance. You will get better pre-amp section with better control on bass management. Recently one of the FM has purchased Emotiva A-300 power amplifier and happy with purchased. You may check his thread.

 

[tuff]

So my last two questions.
1) what exactly is a dsp?
2) now i was being suggested this dsp coz my receiver did not have pre outs. This requires an investment of 44k and 26k for amplifier.. now what if i change my receiver get one with pre outs lets say a good marrantz model which is like 2 3 years older model but with pre outs and connect this crown power amlifier to it? Will this be fine as compared iffi idsp as suggested.. do AVR'S inbuilt dac good enough for power amplifiers.. if this would do then it'll be better as a better AVR wud be an upgradation for future as well.

DSP is Digital sound processing.. AVR has these DSP modes to give different flavors to the sound in different modes. Nothing to do with pre-outs. Getting a Marantz AVr with pre outs and connecting it to a power amp should work fine. If you want best performance go for a stereo setup. Look at this up for sale. https://www.hifivision.com/threads/vincent-pre-power-stereo-amp-sa30-sp330.72053/
One reason something like Crown works because of it's lower budget and excellent quality.(No affiliation of mine.)
But if you stretch your budget a bit, you can get something like this and it should make a big difference. Wattage wise, most entry and mid-level AVR's are mis leading. Try to connect with forum members in your area. Request them a visit, and see what they have in their setups. This whole thing can get confusing at first, but take your time and experience what others have done and learn from their experiences. never forget, that these recommendations are what we have experienced and what we expect from our systems. Else upgradation path is endless.

 

[Akshit2111]

DSP is Digital sound processing.. AVR has these DSP modes to give different flavors to the sound in different modes. Nothing to do with pre-outs. Getting a Marantz AVr with pre outs and connecting it to a power amp should work fine. If you want best performance go for a stereo setup. Look at this up for sale. https://www.hifivision.com/threads/vincent-pre-power-stereo-amp-sa30-sp330.72053/
One reason something like Crown works because of it's lower budget and excellent quality.(No affiliation of mine.)
But if you stretch your budget a bit, you can get something like this and it should make a big difference. Wattage wise, most entry and mid-level AVR's are mis leading. Try to connect with forum members in your area. Request them a visit, and see what they have in their setups. This whole thing can get confusing at first, but take your time and experience what others have done and learn from their experiences. never forget, that these recommendations are what we have experienced and what we expect from our systems. Else upgradation path is endless.

Sir if i take front left and right channel from AVR which supposedly has 185 wpc snd take it into power amp which is 300 wpc like in our case crown then wattage wud be restricted to 185 ( or whatever the actual is if these numbers are farse) or will it be 300... how come this setup us not stereo?
Your comment got me a little confused. The iffi product which is worth 44k.. i din quite understand the price of it.. i basically want to know how is it so expensive what special does it have and what special is it required for power amps? Does it have a special or superior DAC which AVR dont have? Has it got anything to do with power (wpc) what is it..??

 

[tuff]

When you use an AVR pre out, it bypasses the internal amplifier. So you pay for an AVR and not use one of its most important functions. Would that make sense? Yes the power amp wattage is what will be used and not the AVR wattage. Now iFi products are made in UK and are well built to last. Secondly in separates, you pay only for the one thing that it does best, against an all in one box. When a company puts out a separate product, all the money is invested into that, So a stand alone Power amp will be designed to deliver the wattage per channel, 300 X8ohms in this case. iFi has a excellent DAC implimentation, which also means how a DAC chip sounds at the output. Even if you get the best DAC chip out there, if the output implementation sucks, the best DAC will sound worse than an average DAC. Finally, pricing is something that has a few more different angles involved, as brand value, availaibility and make quality, our own taxation policies etc. I bought a used Peachtree decco65 almost 4 years ago, and i have so far not felt the need to change or upgrade it. The amp works like a champ and the DAC is amazing in my setup. Most AVR's give up in 2 to 4 years or get outdated because of newer technologies coming out every year. So if anytime in the future, you need to upgrade, in a separates scenario, you just need to do it to one component, whilst the whole AVR has to go if something goes wrong or if you need to upgrade it. The trick is to put a setup together that works for you in your given budget. Hope this helps.

 

[newlash09]

Iam with tuff on this one. I deliberately went for a lower model marantz 6011, which has the features and functionality I need. And added a external 2 channel amp from the pre outs to drive the front L&R. Now in the process of adding a power amp for the center channel too.

So since the power end of the system is taken care of, whenever my avr breaks ...which eventually it will, I will again add a lower model marantz avr just with the functionality I need. So in the longer run, my power amps will be coming free, once i change my avr twice in place of top end avr's like the marantz, sr8012.

 

[Mi_10]

So my last two questions.

my 2 cents, this hobby called Audio is an endless pit. There is no one here or anywhere in the world who saw the end of this pit. Every single person stops somewhere ! Either because their ears have found something new to ingest or due to lack of funds. They will resume this journey (fall) once their ears get accustomed to this new sound or found more funds to burn.
Point is, unless you know what you want, there are many ways to spend more money and remain unhappy.

• If you are after 2 channel music, as some said, first you need to change the source! The Files need to be in much better format / resolution. for 60k, i would probably, get a nice DAC + AMP Combo (based on audition) and be happy still second anniversary
• If you are looking at a compromise in Music and want Music + Movies, Throw out your AVR and get some mid priced ones from Marantz or Yamaha.
• If you want Just Movies, spend the money on Good Sub..maybe couple of them and keep the blood flowing through your veins (and probably your neighbors ears )
• If you want to start everything from scratch, sell everything including your speakers and start a fresh, drawing out budget and priorities

 

[Akshit2111]

Iam with tuff on this one. I deliberately went for a lower model marantz 6011, which has the features and functionality I need. And added a external 2 channel amp from the pre outs to drive the front L&R. Now in the process of adding a power amp for the center channel too.

So since the power end of the system is taken care of, whenever my avr breaks ...which eventually it will, I will again add a lower model marantz avr just with the functionality I need. So in the longer run, my power amps will be coming free, once i change my avr twice in place of top end avr's like the marantz, sr8012.

One thing i din understand as to why everyone believes that an AVR wud definitelt break within a span of 3 to 4 years. Had this been known to me i wud not have invested my hard earned money into all this. When we buy tv's or other consumer grade electronics we generally presume that it is going to last years and years until we feel the urge to upgrade... so if a person buys an AVR worth 1 lakh then it will just last 4 years? Now if my AVR breaks i need to replace it..then again ill shell thousands of bucks .. but how can we gaurantee long term use for this crown amp and the iffi dac? Wont they break down? Replacing them wud cost me equally

 

[Mi_10]

One thing i din understand as to why everyone believes that an AVR wud definitelt break within a span of 3 to 4 years. Had this been known to me i wud not have invested my hard earned money into all this. When we buy tv's or other consumer grade electronics we generally presume that it is going to last years and years until we feel the urge to upgrade... so if a person buys an AVR worth 1 lakh then it will just last 4 years? Now if my AVR breaks i need to replace it..then again ill shell thousands of bucks .. but how can we gaurantee long term use for this crown amp and the iffi dac? Wont they break down? Replacing them wud cost me equally

AVRs usually have highest reported breakdowns. Simply because of the complex nature of the product. The Amount of Circuitry even in an Entry level AVR is way too high when you compare a simple 2 Channel Amp or a DAC. In System design, the most elementary principle is more the components : higher chances of breaking down.

This is why some of the well built 2 channel Amps stand the test of time, i won't be surprised if few members here still use 20 year old Amps in their current setups.

 

[Akshit2111]

my 2 cents, this hobby called Audio is an endless pit. There is no one here or anywhere in the world who saw the end of this pit. Every single person stops somewhere ! Either because their ears have found something new to ingest or due to lack of funds. They will resume this journey (fall) once their ears get accustomed to this new sound or found more funds to burn.
Point is, unless you know what you want, there are many ways to spend more money and remain unhappy.

• If you are after 2 channel music, as some said, first you need to change the source! The Files need to be in much better format / resolution. for 60k, i would probably, get a nice DAC + AMP Combo (based on audition) and be happy still second anniversary
• If you are looking at a compromise in Music and want Music + Movies, Throw out your AVR and get some mid priced ones from Marantz or Yamaha.
• If you want Just Movies, spend the money on Good Sub..maybe couple of them and keep the blood flowing through your veins (and probably your neighbors ears )
• If you want to start everything from scratch, sell everything including your speakers and start a fresh, drawing out budget and priorities

Hahahha thanks for the crisp answer.
I basically want good performance in terms of music as often times i have people coming over for a party. And till date i have been using my entry level AVR for these kinda occassions which basically is quite opposite to what it is meant for. On weekends i love watching a movie too.. so i have need for both movie + music.. its just that usually m listening to music and Obviously we can hear it on the go thats why its like 80% music and 20% movie...

 

[tuff]

There are no guarantees that it will break. But seems past 5 years or so the average breakdown numbers are up. mostly HDMI board failures and things like that. There can be numerous reasons for that , like power surges or fluctuations. But there is also the other issue of "upgradation" in AVR's. If you are an avid movie buff, avr makes sense, but the new codecs introduced by the industry does not allow you to retain your avr for long. first it was 5.1, then came 7.1/2, then 9.2 and now its 11.2. Codecs like DTS were state of the art 5 years ago. Now atmos and what not. so even if the product performs fine, it gets outdated because of these above reasons.
a 20 year old Norge will still perform flawlessly. I gave up my Yamaha AVR as movie watching in stereo is enough for me. But my priority is music hence no need for all those extra channels.