Which one to go for : Rel HT1508 Predator, SVS SB3000 or Rythmik (small form factor)

[prateekatasniya]

Since u r looking for small form factor , please do checkout for mjacoustics reference 1 MKIII subs in your list .It's very good for movies and music.
The bass resolution is fantastic and very very impressive. As per spec it's goes down to 13 hz.
This brand is started by Ex.REL engineers.

Below is the link for further specs info.

MJ Acoustics – Reference I Mk3

mjacoustics.co.uk

13hz from this sub at usable SPL is next to impossible!
And as with many more subs..
Looking for Max SPL is far more important which sadly none of these brands mention

 

[Nitin K]

Since u r looking for small form factor , please do checkout for mjacoustics reference 1 MKIII subs in your list .It's very good for movies and music.
The bass resolution is fantastic and very very impressive. As per spec it's goes down to 13 hz.
This brand is started by Ex.REL engineers.

Below is the link for furt specs info.

MJ Acoustics – Reference I Mk3

mjacoustics.co.uk

Hi Rajith,

Thanks for the suggestion. Also not sure about the servicing part of MJ in India

 

[insane79]

That's a crazy price. US equivalent.

I am sure you are talking about the Svs & not the Rel.

I find the Rel prices very competitive to the international prices. Svs being sold as a premium brand here when in reality they aren't..

 

[Nitin K]

Have just recently heard the KEF KC62 and I have not heard a better sub in that price range. Ofcourse it can't beat the laws of physics but for music it was excellent. For music a sealed sub with a smaller driver or multiple small drivers are best imho.

Thanks Ramanuj.

That's a crazy price. US equivalent.

Actually DB1989, it's not far off from the international pricing.

 

[DB1989]

I am sure you are talking about the Svs & not the Rel.

I find the Rel prices very competitive to the international prices. Svs being sold as a premium brand here when in reality they aren't..

Thanks Ramanuj.


Actually DB1989, it's not far off from the international pricing.

Ummmm... I said the pricing was equivalent to the US which is crazy and unlike other brands which charge a massive premium.

I guess i should know considering the bargain basement price i bought my T9i for. Life changed. Period.

The problem (if you consider it so) is that they are underwhelming on paper. You can't understand a REL sub unless you hear it. I was much prejudiced against REL and I'd just come off auditioning the entire sub Rs 1 lakh SVS and XTZ line (every single one of them) including the XTZ 1x12 which most people haven't heard and an earth shattering SVS PB12 Plus and they were all very impressive but for music, this is where the search ends.

I'd thought of deploying it in a dual sub setup with my erstwhile Yamaha NSW-300 but i ended up disposing off the later cuz it simply couldn't keep up with the REL. Bass notes seemed to reach the Yamma after ages of the REL already having reproduced the note and having moved on to the next one. For the first time ever, the bass seemed to be in complete harmony with the loudspeakers. And it takes next to no time to blend it in with your speakers (hardly a track or two) with a turn or two of the crossover and gain. It certainly elevates the quality of your loudspeakers.

dd

Hi Friends,

I needed your advice on this. I know that auditioning is the best way to go but due to the ongoing covid conditions, it may not be possible to do that.
Currently I am having the SVS PC 2000 & I am very much satisfied with it for movies & it's decent for music though may not be like a sealed sub.
Although it occupies very less floor space it is tall & is big for the room (14 feet L X 11 ft W X 11 ft H.)

Hence I would be going for a sub with a smaller form factor & reasonably light in weight (less than 35 kgs) to shift it just in case (looks like age is catching up). The above mentioned subs are on my list & I am open to other brands as long as they sound good for movies & music as my preference for both is 50:50. I don't mind sealed or ported as long as they sound good for both. I do understand I may not get the best of both but somewhere close is also fine.

I know that the SB 3000 would go much lower down but I am assuming that the quality & articulation of the bass in the Rel may better( I may be wrong on this). Hence I don't mind sacrificing low frequency extension for that. I have heard a lot of good reviews about the Rythmiks, but the good ones seem big & heavy. If there is a smaller one which can pressurize the room size then great. The above subs are in a similar price bracket. Thank you.

Regards,
Nitin

Before you write off subs exceeding 35kgs, you might want to check out this beaut (available in India for US equivalent pricing if you speak to the dealer)!

 

[Nitin K]

Ummmm... I said the pricing was equivalent to the US which is crazy and unlike other brands which charge a massive premium.

I guess i should know considering the bargain basement price i bought my T9i for. Life changed. Period.

The problem (if you consider it so) is that they are underwhelming on paper. You can't understand a REL sub unless you hear it. I was much prejudiced against REL and I'd just come off auditioning the entire sub Rs 1 lakh SVS and XTZ line (every single one of them) including the XTZ 1x12 which most people haven't heard and an earth shattering SVS PB12 Plus and they were all very impressive but for music, this is where the search ends.

I'd thought of deploying it in a dual sub setup with my erstwhile Yamaha NSW-300 but i ended up disposing off the later cuz it simply couldn't keep up with the REL. Bass notes seemed to reach the Yamma after ages of the REL already having reproduced the note and having moved on to the next one. For the first time ever, the bass seemed to be in complete harmony with the loudspeakers. And it takes next to no time to blend it in with your speakers (hardly a track or two) with a turn or two of the crossover and gain. It certainly elevates the quality of your loudspeakers.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify things. The Rel bass quality is praised by many Rel owners . Although the HT 1508 does not have the high level connections, yet it seems to do well in music too as per reviews. They may not be as good for music like the T or S series . But I guess a balance has to be sought for HT and music.

 

[DB1989]

fdd

Thanks for taking the time to clarify things. The Rel bass quality is praised by many Rel owners . Although the HT 1508 does not have the high level connections, yet it seems to do well in music too as per reviews. They may not be as good for music like the T or S series . But I guess a balance has to be sought for HT and music.

Thats because the HT series use the same quick filters in the LFE as that used by REL in their high level inputs. The HT series simply foregoes the latter to lower costs. Let John Hunter himself inform you about the HT Predator:

 

[liverpool_for_life]

For the first time ever, the bass seemed to be in complete harmony with the loudspeakers. And it takes next to no time to blend it in with your speakers (hardly a track or two) with a turn or two of the crossover and gain.

I understand that you have a UMIK-1. While I get that there's folks who simply tune by ear, I tend to rely on measurements (especially for the LF). Would it be possible for you to measure your L alone and (L+Sub) and post it here (or in a separate thread if it is considered OT for this one)?

The reason I ask is that LF sound waves have to yield to the laws of physics (no matter the source). No amount of perceived subwoofer sorcery can alter this fundamental fact. Room dimensions and room boundaries have the same effect on all sources, as long as the acoustical center of those sources remains the same.

 

[RajithKumar]

Are the MJ subs available here?
Reviews r however quite poor for these.

Yes it's available,AV lounge - Chennai was one of the dealer .Had a demo of that sub about few years back there.It was one of the very very impressive demo .The bass was enormous and it's resolution was way ahead than the subs I have had so far.
Yes u r correct ,u may not find reviews about this sub generally.

 

[RajithKumar]

I heard I think the MJ100 and the MJ150....dont think its a great sub....borrowed it from a friend 2 years back for a day and honestly didnt like it.

Yes ,I too heard ( don't remember the exact model but it is a smaller version) .Me too not impressed.
It was mostly used for music to pair with bookshelves speakers.

 

[RajithKumar]

13hz from this sub at usable SPL is next to impossible!
And as with many more subs..
Looking for Max SPL is far more important which sadly none of these brands mention

Sadly no measurements available.
But believe me ,the bass produced by that sub was kick-ass.
I literally felt that somebody was kicking up my back strongly down from the recliner.( I doubted any bass transducer /butt kicker mounted on the recliner ) .But didn't find anything.
Till now I didn't find that much bass resolution in anyother brand I have heard so far , except from Seaton submersive subs @liverpool_for_life (This was very very powerful and different beast too).
The speakers were mj acoustics ,AVR used Anthem MRX 720 . Everything was perfectly integrated .
I myself & one of other FM @vinothkumar had the demo and we both were under the same impression.

 

[RajithKumar]

Hi Rajith,

Thanks for the suggestion. Also not sure about the servicing part of MJ in India

Hi Nitin,
It's available only if purchased through authorized dealer. AV lounge was the dealer ,but not sure any other dealers available.
But please note that it was a costly sub . Since you were looking for small form factor ,I recollected this model which may do justice.
You can also look out for KEF subs alternatively which have small form factor.

 

[DB1989]

I understand that you have a UMIK-1. While I get that there's folks who simply tune by ear, I tend to rely on measurements (especially for the LF). Would it be possible for you to measure your L alone and (L+Sub) and post it here (or in a separate thread if it is considered OT for this one)?

The reason I ask is that LF sound waves have to yield to the laws of physics (no matter the source). No amount of perceived subwoofer sorcery can alter this fundamental fact. Room dimensions and room boundaries have the same effect on all sources, as long as the acoustical center of those sources remains the same.

Sure. Could you explain what this test is used to establish/demonstrate?

On another note, if the perception is there, why care about measurements?

Do you decide whether the sound is musical if it represents measurements well on paper? If that was the case, i think B&W would be out of business. I fall into the camp which tunes by ear and i use the Umik because i want to see which way my preferences lean if i had to represent them statistically.

Also, there is a fallacy in measurements which i have noticed though i can't explain it (maybe you can throw some light on it). The measurements for the lower frequencies are identical on my KEF Q350 and Evo 4.2. When i mean identical, i mean peak for peak and trough for trough tracking of both graphs in lower frequencies. On paper, they produce the same amount of bass. While the SPLs are the same for both, the KEF Q350s bass is perceivably more nuanced and dynamic. But again, on paper, its the same as the Evo 4.2. Danny from GR research also claims that he can make two speakers which give the same measurements but can sound very different. All hooey?

 

[DB1989]

Sadly no measurements available.
But believe me ,the bass produced by that sub was kick-ass.
I literally felt that somebody was kicking up my back strongly down from the recliner.( I doubted any bass transducer /butt kicker mounted on the recliner ) .But didn't find anything.
Till now I didn't find that much bass resolution in anyother brand I have heard so far , except from Seaton submersive subs @liverpool_for_life (This was very very powerful and different beast too).
The speakers were mj acoustics ,AVR used Anthem MRX 720 . Everything was perfectly integrated .
I myself & one of other FM @vinothkumar had the demo and we both were under the same impression.

But you haven't recommended the Seaton Submersive subs because?

 

[RajithKumar]

But you haven't recommended the Seaton Submersive subs because?

It's huge in size.

 

[Nitin K]

It's huge in size.

And its way beyond my budget

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Sure. Could you explain what this test is used to establish/demonstrate?

I would like to see if I can understand your perception through measurements.

On another note, if the perception is there, why care about measurements?

Your prerogative, of course. I trust my ears far less than pure subjectivists do, especially in the LF.

One of the world's best subwoofer manufacturers is on the record as saying that he gets the calibration results he does because he measures (iteratively). I tend to pay attention to people far smarter than I'm. And when my subjective listening experiences improve as a result of running measurements and fixing issues, I know I'm on the right track.

The typical tune-by-ear enthusiast doesn't have a UMIK or some such. So, one is limited to their subjective impressions. You do, so I asked.

Do you decide whether the sound is musical if it represents measurements well on paper?

The proof of the pudding is in the listening, of course. In the LF region, I use measurements as a tool to get to an accurate baseline, if you will. Even with 4 subs and EQ, at my MLP, the bass in my room is not as close to flat as I would like (+-3 dB from 10-80 Hz), but the closer I get to it, the more my ears have been opened.

As for mids and highs in my room, there is a demonstrated drop in decay times (I've posted the difference in my thread on room treatments a while back) which has allowed the sound to remain lively, but not harsh. So, yes, if you're looking at the right set of measurements, you can get a reasonable, but not complete, sense for the sound. Listening is always part of the evaluation, but measurements preceding it can help to a large degree.

I fall into the camp which tunes by ear and i use the Umik because i want to see which way my preferences lean if i had to represent them statistically.

I merely reverse the order of the two operations.

Also, there is a fallacy in measurements which i have noticed though i can't explain it (maybe you can throw some light on it).

I wish I could help. The FR is but one part (albeit very important part) of what one hears in the room for LF.

I don't know who Danny from GR Research is, but as for measurements and listening preferences, I'd recommend looking up Harman's multi-year research into this led by Dr. Floyd Toole. I believe their conclusions were that they are an identifiable set of measurements for loudspeakers that can predict with around 87.5% accuracy what speakers listeners will choose in a blind listening test.

 

[pks.k]

Any compact Rythmik model recommendations for music and HT ?

Try Rythmik L12 , a very good one for stereo and good choice for HT .
It's a small size (14 inch all sides) sub.

 

[Nitin K]

Try Rythmik L12 , a very good one for stereo and good choice for HT .
It's a small size (14 inch all sides) sub.

Sure, thanks Pks.

 

[smltngs]

Try Rythmik L12 , a very good one for stereo and good choice for HT .
It's a small size (14 inch all sides) sub.

Other day when I called avenuesound, they quoted L12 for 92k. Is it worthy at this price.