which sound card and dac ?

[harsha64]

hi all, im going to upgrade my AV setup, after a lot of auditions i have settled for a pair of b&w 685 speakers(41k) and a denon avr 1611(32K),in the future i will upgrade to 5.1 i,e(pair of 686,htm62 and a sub).
so im planning to connect this setup to pc for music, and also to bd player for movies.
1.as i dont know much about sound card and Dac can you please suggest me some ideal models for this setup, how about cambridge dac magic?.
2.should i get a better sound card or a dac?
3.how important is a sound card in the whole setup?

4. does (pc+sound card+dac+receiver) sound quality = cdp+receiver.

 

[sonosphere]

Hi Harsaha,
Sometime ago I was facing similar questions... below in blue text is what I gathered from web search and my audition of Beresford Caiman DAC >>
Regds,

hi all, im going to upgrade my AV setup, after a lot of auditions i have settled for a pair of b&w 685 speakers(41k) and a denon avr 1611(32K),in the future i will upgrade to 5.1 i,e(pair of 686,htm62 and a sub).
so im planning to connect this setup to pc for music, and also to bd player for movies.
1.as i dont know much about sound card and Dac can you please suggest me some ideal models for this setup, how about cambridge dac magic?.
- Among soundcards Asus Xonar ST (PCI) is the best bet (Juli@ and EMU 1212 are other options) Among DAC around USD 300/- Beresford Caiman and CA DAC magic are popular choices
2.should i get a better sound card or a dac?
- I suggest soundcard option if your budget for this is limited to USD300. Otherwise go for DAC's like Benchmark or better.
3.how important is a sound card in the whole setup?
- Since soundcard is the source, it is very important (of course other equipment in the chain also should be of the same league. Pls dont mind, but your AVR and Bookshelf speakers will not deliver even 50% of SQ of a medium level DAC like Beresford Caiman when it comes to dynamics and clarity)

4. does (pc+sound card+dac+receiver) sound quality = cdp+receiver.
- Within USD 300/- budget the (pc+sound card+dac+receiver) will deliver better than cdp+receiver in same range. When you go higher than USD1000/- the soundcard cant match the musicality of CDP's.

 

[vasishta.sushant]

^^^
DACMagic retails for 430 USD and 300 pound.

Also about the last point, if you think it this way that a CDP is transport plus inbuilt DAC, then how can the CDPs be more musical than the DAC counterparts at the same price point ?

 

[harsha64]

thanks for the replies,dac magic seems nice..but wat about the sound card? (SC - dac magic - av1611 - 685's) can u suggest me a sound card of this league??
nd with this type of setup can i get a very good sound quality??
nd do i need a separate headphone amp if i want to listen thru my headphones?

 

[marsilians]

@sonosphere..there is a fair bit of hazy information in the answers to your questions. Without mentioning other parts of your system and also the type of audio you are playing, it does not make sense to state if CDP is better or not vs. sound card.

There are lot of sound cards and DACs that sound atrocious vs. reasonable priced CDPs based on setup and content

 

[magma]

harsha

if you are buying only a SC and will take the analogue outs there are a couple options i would ponder over

However if you are going to use the SC AND a DAC and use the SC only to take a digital out - then in my opinion there is only 1 (that i consider the best for the money- the ESI Juli
(do note this is my personal opinion only )

 

[harsha64]

@magma,im going to use both sound card and dac,thanks for the advice on sound card..
@marsilians, i have intel dh55tc motherboard,i.5 processor,4.gb ram.
i listen to rock,blues,metal, psy trance..stuff like that,im planning to rip cd's in itunes in ALC format(i like using itunes)
i also watch movies,1080 rips..so i also need good surround effect..

 

[sonosphere]

Hi Vasishta,
My comments in blue below...

^^^
DACMagic retails for 430 USD and 300 pound.
Sorry my misunderstanding. Mostly it's USD 400+ on ebay.

Also about the last point, if you think it this way that a CDP is transport plus inbuilt DAC, then how can the CDPs be more musical than the DAC counterparts at the same price point ?
My comment regarding CDP being more musical was compared to case of "Soundcard-only" as source. I forgot to elaborate on the role of SC + DAC.

If we consider bit-perfect file like flac + SC + DAC then it ***"ought to" sound better than CDP in same price range. I believe since CD's get scratched over some time, they won't sound as good as new on a CDP after repeated use, however if a flac is ripped from a CD when its new, that file would sound "new" forever.

***SQ is a subjective matter... However I am presenting my personal opinion, if it is of any use to others (My own purchases have benefited from other's opinion)

 

[anm]

why buy both sound card and dac when you can buy usb dac?
options - arcam rdac, hrt music streamer within your budget.

 

[sonosphere]

Hi Harsha,
My comments in blue below...

thanks for the replies,dac magic seems nice..but wat about the sound card? (SC - dac magic - av1611 - 685's) can u suggest me a sound card of this league??
If you are looking at Soundcard only as Digital-out device then M-AUDIO - Audiophile 2496, Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 look like good candidates around USD 100/-. No need to spend higher on Asus Xonar essence ST if you intend to spend on external DAC.

nd with this type of setup can i get a very good sound quality??
DAC magic will sound better than DAC in your AV1611. "Very good" sound quality will come when you have a good stereo amp + good BS or FS speakers in chain. My Onkyo AVR was very good for me till I auditioned a stereo amp in my chain. Of course YMMV .

nd do i need a separate headphone amp if i want to listen thru my headphones?
Your AVR headphone amp should be good enough to power most headphones, except the really power hungry types.

 

[sonosphere]

@sonosphere..there is a fair bit of hazy information in the answers to your questions. Without mentioning other parts of your system and also the type of audio you are playing, it does not make sense to state if CDP is better or not vs. sound card.

There are lot of sound cards and DACs that sound atrocious vs. reasonable priced CDPs based on setup and content

Hi Mars,
Actually this is a very debatable topic, because subjectivity comes into play.

I ventured out to share my "personal" conclusions with Harsha direclty, without getting into how's/why's of it. Many a times such threads develop into long pages whereas the OP is clueless even after 30 posts.

To Harsha: If you search this forum, there is lot of gyan on the issue that Mars has noted about "parts of system"... mostly spoken about as "synergy" between components. If time permits I'll post my opinion on it shortly.

Lot of reasonable priced Tape-players /LP players /CDP's /DVPD's /DAC's actually sound better than their higher priced brothers, so the saying goes "always audition before purchasing". However for many, this is a luxury, and they have to rely on other's opinion.

Regds,

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

My thoughts...

Take things stage by stage.

Most PC motherboard come with an included "sound card". Use it... for a while, get used to it, see how you feel about it. Whilst a built-in card can never rival an expensive add-in card or external card/DAC, modern PCs output sound that is infinitely better than the original Soundblaster cards of years ago. Let this be step one on your possible upgrade path. Starting here means that you will know what you are upgrading from, and what you want to improve. While you do that, let your cash grow a little in the bank

Then you have the complex choice of where to go next.

If you go for an external DAC, then, again, if your PC motherboard has digital out, then use that --- or alternatively, go the USB DAC route.

I think you will have a lot more fun and interest this way than by trying to work out what might be the ideal end point of your journey and starting there.

Please remember that if you ever want to record analogue sound on your PC (eg digitizing tape or vinyl) then you need a sound card, internal or external, as DACs, obvioulsy, do not have ADCs (analogue to digital converters). A DAC only does half the job of a sound card --- which is fine if that is all you need.

Do not assume that just because something says "DAC" on the box it will sound better than something that says "sound card." That's just marketing. On the other hand, of course a better DAC will sound better than a poorer sound card.

 

[Cnu]

Hai Harsha

First of all let me make u clear that dac (Digital to analog convertor) is already there in Sound card like asus essensce ST or STX...if u want to upgrade to 5.1 then buy ST and if u dont wanna upgrade buy STX(as its little cheaper)....in between ST and STX...both have same internal compnents and give same 124dB SNR...i use Asus ST sound card and i can say it gives a very good sound...what i feel is for a system of budget(amp+speaker) of around 60k...it is good...if u think to upgrade to a nice set of speakers & amp...then they may be very gud to show the distortion of the sound card...just try audition before buying...and one more thing if u buy asus sound card , u can upgrade its internal parts with newest op-amps...i did n found it very fine...i wud advice u to do some sort of expt over this n give us ur results....it will be useful for other newbies

since u have avr..i guess it has spdif/optial inputs...if u r interested only in sending Digital input...then u can directly take from mother board...doing a bit of soldering job...it is easy i have seen..and if u wanna give analog input(using dac of sound card or external dacs output)...then i wanna say..change ur avr with a 2 or 5 channel amplifier...not an avr...i dont think that avr wud sound best than a amp with a decent dac...

 

[harsha64]

thanks for the replies guys, i have done a lot of reading, nd i have decided i definitely need a sound card, most probably asus st,but i want 5.1 too, so if i use the digital out no need of any upgrading or i have to. if yes then how to do that? is it easy?

or is it wise to go for asus d2x, this way i could use it for both music and movies nd avoid the hassle of upgrading.(but i prefer st)

i think the onboard dac of asus st card is good but will there be any major diff in SQ if use an external dac like dac magic?

@Thad E Ginathom, like u said, im going to build my setup step by step,this way i would know to what i would be upgrading to, so 1st im going to buy the card then later think about the dac. thanks for the tip.

@sonosphere, thanks for answering my each and every query, it helped.