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Which Sub under 20K

Wharfedale Diamond 11 Series

rahulmohan

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Hi,

My equipment: Yamaha HTR-6030 Receiver + Yamaha NS-8390 Towers and those small centre and surround speakers from Yamaha ( P-series )

I am looking for a good subwoofer under 20K that gives good thump while watching movies and renders a smooth, clear bass for music. I mostly listen to Western Classical and Rock music ( Pink Floyd etc. ).

Which sub-woofer would you recommend.

Thanks in advance.
 

hifipal4all

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Hi

If you can stretch your budget upto 25K, you can get an excellent subwoofer from Velodyne (Model: AX-10). Under 20K, you can go for the Wharfedale SW150. It will cost 18K and its a pretty decent subwoofer for this price.

Cheers,
Ramesh @ Bangalore
 
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rahulmohan

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Thanks for the info, Ramesh.

I will definitely try out the Wharfedale SW-150, Velodyne being out of my range for now.

The only one I could audition so far was PolkAudio PSW series. Frankly, I could not appreciate its presence with towers for the main speakers.

What is your opinion on PolkAudio? I am trying to figure out whether my opinion is based on a bad audition or because the polkaudio is not actually that good.

Do you have any tips to select a sub-woofer? The main issue I face is that, I am not able to figure out how a particular sub will sound in my setup. The dealers usually dont have my receiver and tower models, those being a bit out of date.
 
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marsilians

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Thanks for the info, Ramesh.

I will definitely try out the Wharfedale SW-150, Velodyne being out of my range for now.

The only one I could audition so far was PolkAudio PSW series. Frankly, I could not appreciate its presence with towers for the main speakers.

What is your opinion on PolkAudio? I am trying to figure out whether my opinion is based on a bad audition or because the polkaudio is not actually that good.

Do you have any tips to select a sub-woofer? The main issue I face is that, I am not able to figure out how a particular sub will sound in my setup. The dealers usually dont have my receiver and tower models, those being a bit out of date.

Polk PSW series subs are pretty good. The psw 10 are quite comparable to PSW 505 series. Make sure its setup properly and tuned. They can run with most decent floor standing speakers.
 
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venkatcr

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Do you have any tips to select a sub-woofer? The main issue I face is that, I am not able to figure out how a particular sub will sound in my setup. The dealers usually dont have my receiver and tower models, those being a bit out of date.

Carry a couple of CDs with a lot of drums, for example, 'Drums on Fire' by James Asher and Sivamani. If you can lay your hands on any CD of Kitaro, it will be even better. Kitaro, a Japanese musician uses the Taiko, Okedo, and Okaido drums. Some of these drums go very large - sometimes 2 to 3 meters in diameter. Another option is the Tabla of our own maestro - Zakhir Hussain.

In movies, a good option is 'Battle of Britain'. Any DVD that has war scenes or bombing scenes.

When you play these, you have to specifically look for two things from the sub - speed, and depth. By speed what I mean is that the sub should pay the sound in a very sharp manner without any boominess or echo. By depth, you should be able to differentiate between the sounds of drums of various sizes. Zakhir plays the tabla in multiple ways. One; he uses his fingers and the base of his hand to create very sharp sound that lasts for a few millisecond. Second; he rubs the bases of his hand across the face of the drum that will create a longer 'brummmmmmm'. At times, he taps the drum lightly creating a melody using very low amplitude sounds. These differences are not just volume but also the tones of the low frequency sounds.

A good sub, if you close, your eyes, should be able to make you visualize all these.

In 'Battle of Britain', in one of the initial chapters, the Germans bomb an RAF base at Biggin Hill. As the bombs fall, the camera, in the initial stages, is very close to the drop points. Here the explosion of the boom will be ear splitting, but again dying very quickly without an echo. Slowly the camera pans back to give a view of the whole airfield. At that point the volume of the explosions go down, but you can yet feel the deep thump as the bombs fall far away.

Most action movies have similar scenes. Once scene I just love is from Kill Bill 2. In this scene, Beatrix is knocked by Budd in a shootout. He and his friends then nail her into a coffin. The camera is inside the coffin as the nails are hammered in. A good sub will clearly separate the metallic sound of the hammer hitting the nail and the deep deep 'thump' that follows as the nail goes into the wood. Real creepy.

Regarding how it will sound with your system., you just have to convince the dealer to give you home demo. There is no other option unless you find a dealer who has your system in his place.

Cheers, and have fun !!
 
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Gurudristi

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Under 20K sub....Hm....

must try a Home demo with your system.:confused:

Recommended :Wharfedale SW 150: around 18K, if you can negotiate well....you can get around 10% off.:cool:

It's a darn good sub....

Best of luck buddy...
 
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prakasse

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Carry a couple of CDs with a lot of drums, for example, 'Drums on Fire' by James Asher and Sivamani. If you can lay your hands on any CD of Kitaro, it will be even better. Kitaro, a Japanese musician uses the Taiko, Okedo, and Okaido drums. Some of these drums go very large - sometimes 2 to 3 meters in diameter. Another option is the Tabla of our own maestro - Zakhir Hussain.

In movies, a good option is 'Battle of Britain'. Any DVD that has war scenes or bombing scenes.

When you play these, you have to specifically look for two things from the sub - speed, and depth. By speed what I mean is that the sub should pay the sound in a very sharp manner without any boominess or echo. By depth, you should be able to differentiate between the sounds of drums of various sizes. Zakhi's plays the tabla in multiple ways. One; he uses his fingers and the base of his hand to create very sharp sound that lasts for a few millisecond. Second; he rubs the bases of his hand across the face of the drum that will create a longer 'brummmmmmm'. At times, he taps the drum lightly creating a melody using very low amplitude sounds. These differences are not just volume but also the tones of the low frequency sounds.

A good sub, if you close, your eyes, should be able to make you visualize all these.

In 'Battle of Britain', in one of the initial chapters, the Germans bomb an RAF base at Biggin Hill. As the bombs fall, the camera, in the initial stages, is very close to the drop points. Here the explosion of the boom will be ear splitting, but again dying very quickly without an echo. Slowly the camera pans back to give a view of the whole airfield. At that point the volume of the explosions go down, but you can yet feel the deep thump as the bombs fall far away.

Most action movies have similar scenes. Once scene I just love is from Kill Bill 2. In this scene, Beatrix is knocked by Budd in a shootout. He and his friends then nail her into a coffin. The camera is inside the coffin as the nails are hammered in. A good sub will clearly separate the metallic sound of the hammer hitting the nail and the deep deep 'thump' that follows as the nail goes into the wood. Real creepy.

Regarding how it will sound with your system., you just have to convince the dealer to give you home demo. There is no other option unless you find a dealer who has your system in his place.

Cheers, and have fun !!

Hi Venkat,

Thanks for your excellent reply. But i always had this question. our audible range is 20 hz to 20Khz. Will sound engineers keep this in mind while doing recording for films/music cd's. I always find satellite speakers handling 100hz to 20 Khz, Book shelf 50hz-20Khz, Floor standers 45-20khz, and MOST of the Sub's handling between 35hz to 20 KHZ.

So what happens to the frequency rance of 20hz to 35 hz. Obviously we lose those frequencies in our system right no matter how best AVR's, Sources, Cables we have.

I know certain subs go till 20 HZ but they are extremely costly. Can you advice a Sub that handles the frequecy starting from 20 HZ and a good Value for Money. it will be very helpful to the forum members.

Thanks,
Prakash.
 
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Gurudristi

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I think we should start a new thread for the Frequency hearing range of sub- woofers.....

While I fully agree with Prakash regarding the frequency range of speakers. I have a small question: :eek:
Tell me how many of us can really hear the 20Hz ~30Hz lower end or frequencies at the upper end beyond 15 khz, 20Khz upwards.

Most human hearing actually stops below 35~40Hz. Its the Rumble or the feel of that lower end of frequency or that slight tingle on your arms which that frequency might rub as it passes you .....if lucky, you might feel that inaudible range.:rolleyes:

Thus for me, a sub , which can comfortably handle those audible frequencies as also give me the thump and rumble like what Venkat has explained and above all costs which really suits my pocket....I will be a very happy man.:D
 
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marsilians

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Its hard to audition low freq effects for music. Movies offer a better bet and also need the sub more than music unless you are into hip hop and rap or blue man group types.

Not surprisingly animation provides lots of effects to test subs. Some scenes to check for and the times on the DVD are

1. "Finding Nemo" - "Darla taps the tank", Scene 25 (1:18:14)

If this scene does not get you to feel the impact, then check the conenctions and settings for the sub properly. Otherwise go to the next model.

2. "The Incredibles"

"Building comes down", Scene 6 (0:22:59)
"Syndrome", Scene 13 (0:52:01)
"Ouch", Scene 15 (0:58:15)
"Sticky balled", Scene 16 (01:02:30)

3. "Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Rings"
"Ring drops", Scene 1 (0:03:49)
"Sauron Explodes", Scene 1 (0:04:04)
"Skeleton falls into well", Scene 8 (0:27:39)


4. "Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers"

"Gandalf falls", Scene 1 (0:02:48)
"Black riders", Scene 14 (0:49:42)
"Gandalf slays Balrog", Scene 15 (0:53:54)
"Oliphants charge", Scene 30 (1:44:52)


5. "Lord of the Rings: Return of the King" This is the ultimate test for any sub. If it handles these scenes smoothly, then you are good to for fro any LFE!

"Green light" Chapter 11 (0:41:40)
"Undead King" Chapter 27 (01:27:22)
"Shelob" Chapter 33 (01:51:40)
"Olephant charge, again" Chapter 42 (2:12:48)
"Mount Doom" Chapter 53 (2:40:50)

If you want to test "clean bass" a very good test is

Lagaan - Ghanan Ghanan esp. the starting part and

Mann Ki Lagan in movie Paap. These are some of the fastest.
 
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Gurudristi

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Dear Sachi,
How much is the definitive technology Prosub100(the new one is prosub1000)? and what are the specs?
 
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