Why are Integrated amps MORE expensive than recievers

[Alisaghafi]

This was the most logic answer.
After all, the best and reasonable choice is AVR, if we talk about sound quality, for sure AVRs have enough quality and power that satisfy everyone.
I didn't find any reason to go for integrated amps,when AVRs offer many more choices and may connect to many more speakers as well as many more audio and video devices.
Our ears are not that sensitive to feel that 10HZ more or less that's why I always prefer AVRs
Cheaper, more functional, more speakers, more connectivity option, less expensive and much easier to find spear parts in case any repair is needed.
The only point that bothering me is that new AVRs are having less connectivity option to older devices, the new ones are having more HDMI connector but less RCA in and out put.
My old pioneer AVR has Tape input as well as output for tape, this let me to record on my cassette and reel Dec from any digital source but new AVRs usually don't support any tape input/output .
By the way, the Zone2 option on the AVRs worth more than any integrated amp, specially if you know what you may do with it and if you connect your vintage system to zone2 and play your music from 5.1 and vintage at the same time.
Mixing sounds from new and vintage speakers together and play at the same time may bring you an amazing results that you don't believe till you try it.

 

[ajuvignesh]

More speakers doesn’t mean better sound quality. For the same price, Integrated amplifiers perform better for stereo duties compared to AVR.

 

[Nitin K]

From the two channel standpoint I'll say that their specs are really honest . I am giving an extreme example -- from sony india's site
DVD Home Theatre System - DAV-DZ870W

Power Output - Total (RMS at 10% THD) 1000W

now I am not very familier with THD concept but I know lesser is better and 10% is too too high!!!!!!!!

Now once I was offered Onkyo A 809 ( regret not buying it!) must be more than 10 years old -- only 105w x 2 @ 0.008 % THD ( Also Mentioned -Both channels Driven - from 20 Hzto 20 KHz with NO MORE than 0.008% THD) !!

I remember years ago Onkyo giving their specs at 4 or at 6 ohms instead of giving both at 8 and 4 ohms.
Most of the mainstream avr's will try to show flowery specs or may be at 2 channels driven.
I found Nad to be honest with their specs in that regard with the no. of channels it can drive.

 

[alpha1]

I didn't find any reason to go for integrated amps,when AVRs offer many more choices and may connect to many more speakers as well as many more audio and video devices.

Most AVRs are not genuine in their published specs.
Their THD figures for rated power output may be missing.
Their rated power output will not be clear about whether all channels delivering power or only one channel and with what speaker impedance.
See below:

I remember years ago Onkyo giving their specs at 4 or at 6 ohms instead of giving both at 8 and 4 ohms.
Most of the mainstream avr's will try to show flowery specs or may be at 2 channels driven.
I found Nad to be honest with their specs in that regard with the no. of channels it can drive.

In general, integrated amps are truer in publishing their specs and the results you can easily make out when playing music at loud volumes.

Mixing sounds from new and vintage speakers together and play at the same time may bring you an amazing results that you don't believe till you try it.

Ah, you mean you like the stereo sound coming from your 5.1 setup?
I believe a 5.1 system trying to play stereo will create so much cross-channel interference (at our ears) that it will completely obliterate any spatial cues in the sound reaching our brain.

 

[alexclark4235]

HI,

For a typical HT system, you need the a pre-amplifier to process the signals and a power amplifier to make the signals audible.

So Integrated amplifier = pre-amp + power amp (within a single unit)

Receiver = integrated amp + built-in radio tuner.

A Pre/Power combination will always be more expensive than the equivalent integrated due to the extra hardware required.

Also a standalone power amp has a lot of high quality components that cannot be fit into a integrated due to its form factor and space constraints.

Reason integrated prices drop so much in a few years is due to the fact that the processing options are always being modified. The amplifier sections does not see much change.

Here, you have mentioned preamp and power amp but I have also heard the term that many people are talking about i.e. phono preamp. What's the exact difference between phono preamp and preamp?

 

[alpha1]

1) Most AVRs are not genuine in their published specs.
Their THD figures for rated power output may be missing.
Their rated power output will not be clear about whether all channels delivering power or only one channel and with what speaker impedance.
See below:

2) In general, integrated amps are truer in publishing their specs and the results you can easily make out when playing music at loud volumes.

3) Ah, you mean you like the stereo sound coming from your 5.1 setup?
I believe a 5.1 system trying to play stereo will create so much cross-channel interference (at our ears) that it will completely obliterate any spatial cues in the sound reaching our brain.

Just to elaborate more on these points:
1) I can build a crappy amp and publish figures like 100 W output. But withhold the info that is distorting like crazy (10% THD).
If I am more sophisticated, I can make a better amp and publish figure like 100 W at 1% THD. However, I will fail to mention what happens when both left and right channels are being asked to deliver 100 W power (perhaps the amp distorts more and produces 5% THD in such case)

2) Few things I have observed that tell the ears about Wattage and THD. A high quality amp will deliver undistorted signal at high power. What this means is that:
a) when you increase the volume on the amp, you will be surprised that the volume on your ears do not increase as much! A distorted signal sound louder (because of the overtones it generates). The cleaner the amp the less loud it will sound. These can be easily made out for spectrum between 2000 Hz and 5000 Hz (ears are most sensitive to these frequencies - incidentally electric guitar amplifier speakers and cabinets amplify these frequencies the maximum lending it the tone characteristics)
b) bass frequencies test the prowess of amp components (and its internal power supply). A high-quality low distortion amp will sound "flat/meh" in bass, and low-quality high distortion amp will sound "energetic" in bass (again because of overtones)

3) This will require elaboration, but I am surprised about the prevalence of this false thought that more channels the better the sound. Only if you have multi channel source audio. If you play stereo over multi-channel speakers you will only destroy the stereo imaging (unless you also run a DSP which will do sound correction for your precise position, but this correction will sound horrible to someone who is not sitting at precise position).

 

[fLUX]

Here, you have mentioned preamp and power amp but I have also heard the term that many people are talking about i.e. phono preamp. What's the exact difference between phono preamp and preamp?

A phono preamp is needed to amplify the signal from a Turntable & generally offer much higher gain than normal preamps offer).

The general preamps are used to provide necessary line level signal to power amps & also offer volume controls.

Many preamps come with inbuilt phonos in them ( or as add-ons sometimes).

 

[Analogous]

Just to elaborate more on these points:
1) I can build a crappy amp and publish figures like 100 W output. But withhold the info that is distorting like crazy (10% THD).
If I am more sophisticated, I can make a better amp and publish figure like 100 W at 1% THD. However, I will fail to mention what happens when both left and right channels are being asked to deliver 100 W power (perhaps the amp distorts more and produces 5% THD in such case)

2) Few things I have observed that tell the ears about Wattage and THD. A high quality amp will deliver undistorted signal at high power. What this means is that:
a) when you increase the volume on the amp, you will be surprised that the volume on your ears do not increase as much! A distorted signal sound louder (because of the overtones it generates). The cleaner the amp the less loud it will sound. These can be easily made out for spectrum between 2000 Hz and 5000 Hz (ears are most sensitive to these frequencies - incidentally electric guitar amplifier speakers and cabinets amplify these frequencies the maximum lending it the tone characteristics)
b) bass frequencies test the prowess of amp components (and its internal power supply). A high-quality low distortion amp will sound "flat/meh" in bass, and low-quality high distortion amp will sound "energetic" in bass (again because of overtones)

3) This will require elaboration, but I am surprised about the prevalence of this false thought that more channels the better the sound. Only if you have multi channel source audio. If you play stereo over multi-channel speakers you will only destroy the stereo imaging (unless you also run a DSP which will do sound correction for your precise position, but this correction will sound horrible to someone who is not sitting at precise position).

Nice explanation of Amp quality and distortion
By the way where is βηανδυπ? (If you want to, of course)

 

[rwnano]

Just to elaborate more on these points:
1) I can build a crappy amp and publish figures like 100 W output. But withhold the info that is distorting like crazy (10% THD).
If I am more sophisticated, I can make a better amp and publish figure like 100 W at 1% THD. However, I will fail to mention what happens when both left and right channels are being asked to deliver 100 W power (perhaps the amp distorts more and produces 5% THD in such case)

2) Few things I have observed that tell the ears about Wattage and THD. A high quality amp will deliver undistorted signal at high power. What this means is that:
a) when you increase the volume on the amp, you will be surprised that the volume on your ears do not increase as much! A distorted signal sound louder (because of the overtones it generates). The cleaner the amp the less loud it will sound. These can be easily made out for spectrum between 2000 Hz and 5000 Hz (ears are most sensitive to these frequencies - incidentally electric guitar amplifier speakers and cabinets amplify these frequencies the maximum lending it the tone characteristics)
b) bass frequencies test the prowess of amp components (and its internal power supply). A high-quality low distortion amp will sound "flat/meh" in bass, and low-quality high distortion amp will sound "energetic" in bass (again because of overtones)

3) This will require elaboration, but I am surprised about the prevalence of this false thought that more channels the better the sound. Only if you have multi channel source audio. If you play stereo over multi-channel speakers you will only destroy the stereo imaging (unless you also run a DSP which will do sound correction for your precise position, but this correction will sound horrible to someone who is not sitting at precise position).

Very good explanation

 

[dafreaking]

I think what sucks more is that simple (6channel) AV Processors are so expensive. Like All I need is HDMI to pre-outs and that's 6 figures.

 

[EswarReddy]

Just to elaborate more on these points:
1) I can build a crappy amp and publish figures like 100 W output. But withhold the info that is distorting like crazy (10% THD).
If I am more sophisticated, I can make a better amp and publish figure like 100 W at 1% THD. However, I will fail to mention what happens when both left and right channels are being asked to deliver 100 W power (perhaps the amp distorts more and produces 5% THD in such case)

2) Few things I have observed that tell the ears about Wattage and THD. A high quality amp will deliver undistorted signal at high power. What this means is that:
a) when you increase the volume on the amp, you will be surprised that the volume on your ears do not increase as much! A distorted signal sound louder (because of the overtones it generates). The cleaner the amp the less loud it will sound. These can be easily made out for spectrum between 2000 Hz and 5000 Hz (ears are most sensitive to these frequencies - incidentally electric guitar amplifier speakers and cabinets amplify these frequencies the maximum lending it the tone characteristics)
b) bass frequencies test the prowess of amp components (and its internal power supply). A high-quality low distortion amp will sound "flat/meh" in bass, and low-quality high distortion amp will sound "energetic" in bass (again because of overtones)

3) This will require elaboration, but I am surprised about the prevalence of this false thought that more channels the better the sound. Only if you have multi channel source audio. If you play stereo over multi-channel speakers you will only destroy the stereo imaging (unless you also run a DSP which will do sound correction for your precise position, but this correction will sound horrible to someone who is not sitting at precise position).

Nice explanation

 

[rwnano]

The basic reality and principle is that LoudSpeakers are low resistance loads. 4-8 ohms. Therefore the primary fact is that they will consume high current at most voltages. Thus weight of the transformer and capacitor and heatsink and good ABILITY TO HANDLE LARGE CURRENTs is the most important parameter in the amplifier.

 

[alpha1]

Nice explanation of Amp quality and distortion
By the way where is βηανδυπ? (If you want to, of course)

The place is written using greek script instead of Roman/Latin (English script). See if you can work backwards. ;-)
(I think I have made a mistake in second letter though)

 

[alpha1]

Just to elaborate more on these points:
1) I can build a crappy amp and publish figures like 100 W output. But withhold the info that is distorting like crazy (10% THD).
If I am more sophisticated, I can make a better amp and publish figure like 100 W at 1% THD. However, I will fail to mention what happens when both left and right channels are being asked to deliver 100 W power (perhaps the amp distorts more and produces 5% THD in such case)

2) Few things I have observed that tell the ears about Wattage and THD. A high quality amp will deliver undistorted signal at high power. What this means is that:
a) when you increase the volume on the amp, you will be surprised that the volume on your ears do not increase as much! A distorted signal sound louder (because of the overtones it generates). The cleaner the amp the less loud it will sound. These can be easily made out for spectrum between 2000 Hz and 5000 Hz (ears are most sensitive to these frequencies - incidentally electric guitar amplifier speakers and cabinets amplify these frequencies the maximum lending it the tone characteristics)
b) bass frequencies test the prowess of amp components (and its internal power supply). A high-quality low distortion amp will sound "flat/meh" in bass, and low-quality high distortion amp will sound "energetic" in bass (again because of overtones)

3) This will require elaboration, but I am surprised about the prevalence of this false thought that more channels the better the sound. Only if you have multi channel source audio. If you play stereo over multi-channel speakers you will only destroy the stereo imaging (unless you also run a DSP which will do sound correction for your precise position, but this correction will sound horrible to someone who is not sitting at precise position).

Addendum to Point 1:
Speaker impedance is also important factor.
So, an amp that is delivering 100 W (say 1% THD) to 8Ω load; should be able to deliver 200 W to 4Ω? (Ohms law Power = Voltage² / Resistance).
Well in doing so it will most likely distort (e.g. it will deliver 200 W but with 10% THD, because the components are not capable of enduring the high current). That's why most of the good amps publish impedance figure also, and you WILL observe that the power figures will never be in the same ratio as the stated load impedance (because in the above example the same amp can perhaps power only 125 W to 4Ω while maintaining 1% THD).