why dolby vision missing on Samsung?

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OM_2K19

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The reason I picked Samsung is that they do a better job surpassing blooming (at the expense of black level though) than Sony. DV doesn't matter much to me since Samsung doesn't do Tone Mapping (because of higher native brightness). So, in the end, one doesn't lose much as compared to HDR (although Mastering matters). BTW, HDR 10+ didn't take off yet, there is hardly any content available. HDR 10+ being a Samsung's proprietary algorithm, they are naturally not supporting DV (their competitor.)
 

mail2sumanth

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I know HDR 10 is a open standard ( subject to correction) unlike Dolby vision where a license fee should be paid. So any manufacturer is free to work on HDR and name it what ever they want. And being Samsung moving away from uhd players, strategy is very unclear. AV enthusiasts are putting more expectations to bring on features which we don’t know if ever will be used. Tone mapping is an engg art, if you look at 4K 60hz it needs to auto correct ever frame taking nits, color bits, and various others into account. HDR10+ can push the display to 4000 nits, Dolby vision can go up to 10k nits. It should do all these in near real-time. On top HDR expects all our displays to be calibrated and color corrected. Packing this power for the price is economically challenging. We know for fact that non of the TV manufactures reveal their nits specs. On top we don’t have content that is even mastered in 4K end to end expect very few documentaries to take advantage these feature. So finally we end up upscaling the existing content ;). It will be the same fate for 8K.
 

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..... is Samsung hdr 10+ better than DV?
for whom, the Manufacturer/content maker or the End user ?
for Manufacturer/content maker -- " better " may be the wrong word , its the best to them.
from End user perspective - exactly the opposite.
 

lightgamer

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why do people still buy Samsungs given their lack of support for Dolby Vision? is Samsung hdr 10+ better than DV?
People really put too much emphasis on the formats than necessary. The difference between HDR10, HDR10+ and DV isn't that much and Samsung TVs aren't missing out on much by not supporting DV.

DV and HDR10+ are both dynamic metadata over HDR10 standard. They are beneficial if the TV can't get as bright as the mastering suggests, and they tell the TV how to tone-map.

So Dolby Vision will only be beneficial if:
  1. The content has good Dolby Vision mastering, and
  2. Your TV isn't bright enough for the content, and
  3. The dynamic tone-mapping of your TV/processor isn't good enough.
That's a lot of IFs to be honest. Honestly, if given the choice on how to rip a Blu-ray, I'll prefer ripping in HDR10 over Dolby Vision because of dual-layer compatibility reasons and the benefits aren't worth it. I just don't get the hoo-ha about Dolby Vision. It's great if the content has it, but I wouldn't lose my sleep over it. Also, it should NEVER influence your TV buying decision by even 1%.

Samsung top-end TVs are bright enough that the Dolby Vision benefits won't really matter. Also they have pretty good dynamic tone mapping, so even if a scene is too bright they'll handle it well.

As for HDR10+, I like this standard. It's available in far fewer movies, but it's backwards compatible with HDR10 without the dual-layer nonsense (so works on PC). There's no compatibility nightmare for it, so no reason to not have it over HDR10. Also, it's much cheaper to license than Dolby branded stuff.
 

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IMO we still don’t have a display that shows the full potential of DV. For now any tv that supports HDR at best will do.
 
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lightgamer

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IMO we still don’t have a display that shows the full potential of DV. For now any tv that supports HDR at best will do.
On the contrary, if the TVs get brighter and better the need for Dolby Vision will get lesser as you won't need tone-mapping to begin with.

On a TV with 4000 nits brightness for example, every single scene will look exactly the same on DV and HDR10 as it can natively follow the PQ curve.

DV is only active if the TV can't display the content properly.
 

Love4sound

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On the contrary, if the TVs get brighter and better the need for Dolby Vision will get lesser as you won't need tone-mapping to begin with.

On a TV with 4000 nits brightness for example, every single scene will look exactly the same on DV and HDR10 as it can natively follow the PQ curve.

DV is only active if the TV can't display the content properly.
Hahah now itself I don’t find the need of DV well that’s just me. I do have the Dolby vision demo disk and when it’s played through nvidia shield it plays it in HDR format. I also played the same video in the tv Dolby app which plays the same video in DV. I am happy with both and don’t miss DV.If pple like Samsung tv they should just buy it and not fuss much about DV
 

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So as DV is dynamically adjusted frame by frame as compared to HDR then if we have any device which supports HDR but not DV (like shield) do we lose the frame by frame mapping Specifically in less bright TVs. Does the movie is DV gets played in HDR and loses out on the frame by frame tone mapping.
 

lightgamer

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So as DV is dynamically adjusted frame by frame as compared to HDR then if we have any device which supports HDR but not DV (like shield) do we lose the frame by frame mapping Specifically in less bright TVs. Does the movie is DV gets played in HDR and loses out on the frame by frame tone mapping.
The shield 2019 has Dolby Vision. I guess you mean the 2017 version?

Regarding how it plays on displays that don't support it, it will depend on the player. For example, on a PC it plays but the colours look all wrong as the PC thinks it's an SDR video and hence the mapping is wrong. Skin looks purple and green(attached screenshot). The original screenshot was over 7MB at 4k, had to scale it to 25% (540p) to fit in the site's requirements.

Some devices might not even play the file full stop. That's why I don't like DV stuff as compatibility is a massive pain. This file can only be played on my TV via Plex. And even that doesn't work as firestick doesn't pass 4k 60 DV to my TV, so I only get HDR10 (but at least the file looks alright).
Screenshot (74) (Custom).png
 

lightgamer

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The shield 2019 has Dolby Vision. I guess you mean the 2017 version?

Regarding how it plays on displays that don't support it, it will depend on the player. For example, on a PC it plays but the colours look all wrong as the PC thinks it's an SDR video and hence the mapping is wrong. Skin looks purple and green(attached screenshot). The original screenshot was over 7MB at 4k, had to scale it to 25% (540p) to fit in the site's requirements.

Some devices might not even play the file full stop. That's why I don't like DV stuff as compatibility is a massive pain. This file can only be played on my TV via Plex. And even that doesn't work as firestick doesn't pass 4k 60 DV to my TV, so I only get HDR10 (but at least the file looks alright).
View attachment 58799
@dillihifi Actually, upon further research I've found some more information.

There are (obviously) two types of Dolby Vision encodings:
  1. Single-layer, where the file is played like a Dolby Vision file. The above example is one such example. Hence a device that doesn't support DV can't play the file correctly or at all. Here in the above screenshot, you can see that the player is interpreting it as an SDR video (BT.709 primaries). This is the type you'll find with Web services like Netflix or Disney since they'll just serve the HDR10 version to displays that don't support DV.
  2. Dual-layer DV where there are two video streams. This is for the compatibility layer in Blu-Ray players so if the display is HDR10 only, it will play the HDR10 compatibility layer. If you play a dual-layer DV file in a player which doesn't support DV, it will play the HDR10 version discarding the DV metadata.
It just happens that I have a copy of such a file for the Knives Out movie, which plays perfectly on my PC despite being DV as there's an HDR10 compatibility layer. Also, MadVR dynamic tone mapping works wonderfully with this movie.
 

Decadent_Spectre

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Honestly I couldn't care less about HDR/DV etc. Even 1080p works fine for me. I have no issues with Samsung as long as the TV is bright and has good colors so for me whether it has HDR or DV is irrelevant.
 

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@dillihifi Actually, upon further research I've found some more information.

There are (obviously) two types of Dolby Vision encodings:
  1. Single-layer, where the file is played like a Dolby Vision file. The above example is one such example. Hence a device that doesn't support DV can't play the file correctly or at all. Here in the above screenshot, you can see that the player is interpreting it as an SDR video (BT.709 primaries). This is the type you'll find with Web services like Netflix or Disney since they'll just serve the HDR10 version to displays that don't support DV.
  2. Dual-layer DV where there are two video streams. This is for the compatibility layer in Blu-Ray players so if the display is HDR10 only, it will play the HDR10 compatibility layer. If you play a dual-layer DV file in a player which doesn't support DV, it will play the HDR10 version discarding the DV metadata.
It just happens that I have a copy of such a file for the Knives Out movie, which plays perfectly on my PC despite being DV as there's an HDR10 compatibility layer. Also, MadVR dynamic tone mapping works wonderfully with this movie.
recently mobiles coming with hdr10+,atmos even at 15k budget ,does hdr 10+ really works in mobile?(lossy)
 

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recently mobiles coming with hdr10+,atmos even at 15k budget ,does hdr 10+ really works in mobile?(lossy)
Obviously, it works. My OnePlus 7 Pro with Dolby Atmos can destroy any non-Atmos home theatre system in sound quality and loudness. Even my neighbours feel it when the ringtone produces the full surround dome around my society, with Dolby written in the air.

In all seriousness though, they are just formats and when they say it's an HDR10+/DV or has Dolby Atmos, it just means that the phone can play those formats or has some tuning by Dolby. Even 30k TVs have Dolby Atmos and Vision, but their displays and speakers are garbage anyway.
 

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Obviously, it works. My OnePlus 7 Pro with Dolby Atmos can destroy any non-Atmos home theatre system in sound quality and loudness. Even my neighbours feel it when the ringtone produces the full surround dome around my society, with Dolby written in the air.

In all seriousness though, they are just formats and when they say it's an HDR10+/DV or has Dolby Atmos, it just means that the phone can play those formats or has some tuning by Dolby. Even 30k TVs have Dolby Atmos and Vision, but their displays and speakers are garbage anyway.
how can we identify content playing on hdr 10+ ?is logo appear like on TV
 

Rane-2020

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There is no standard with Dolby Vision.In market you will from 300 nits-3000 nits having Dolby Vision. Anyone can get it by paying a fee.it was 3 dollars last when I checked.

Just focus on 2 things brightness and contrast.a 300 nits DV tv is not gonna beat a QN90A. even if you use quantum computer for picture processing and hire the best engineers to fine-tune the DV algorithm.

this is what Rtings says "Ultimately, the difference between the two formats isn't that important. The quality of the TV itself has a much bigger impact on HDR"

You can read the full article here https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/hdr10-vs-dolby-vision
 

rajeshpapani

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There is no standard with Dolby Vision.In market you will from 300 nits-3000 nits having Dolby Vision. Anyone can get it by paying a fee.it was 3 dollars last when I checked.

Just focus on 2 things brightness and contrast.a 300 nits DV tv is not gonna beat a QN90A. even if you use quantum computer for picture processing and hire the best engineers to fine-tune the DV algorithm.

this is what Rtings says "Ultimately, the difference between the two formats isn't that important. The quality of the TV itself has a much bigger impact on HDR"

You can read the full article here https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/hdr10-vs-dolby-vision
which tv give better DV ? which tv u prefer over qn90a
 
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