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moserw

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Hi,

Has anyone purchased anything on 20north yet? If so how is the service and any issues?

There is a Sherwood RX-4105 Stereo Receiver for Rs. 6112 on it. Of course shipping by air brings it to Rs. 13233, but shipping by ocean its coming to Rs. 9220. Just wondering how good is 20north to shop online with.
 

reju

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Yeah even I am keen to know this:)

BTW are Sherwood products good? I see them at eZone and always felt that it is some assembled sort of stuff?
 

moserw

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Yeah even I am keen to know this:)

BTW are Sherwood products good? I see them at eZone and always felt that it is some assembled sort of stuff?

Its USA based. Not sure though about performance but I would assume they would be good. Maybe others on the forum who've used or heard will throw some light.
 

iaudio

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Its USA based. Not sure though about performance but I would assume they would be good. Maybe others on the forum who've used or heard will throw some light.

I feel one should look at 20north for stuff that cant be sourced here rather than from the savings point of view, because with the duty and shipping charges and also considering the fact that you need a step down transformer, there is no price advantage. For that one would still have to depend on kind relatives and friends coming down from usa/uk/singapore etc:D
 

reju

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I feel one should look at 20north for stuff that cant be sourced here rather than from the savings point of view, because with the duty and shipping charges and also considering the fact that you need a step down transformer, there is no price advantage. For that one would still have to depend on kind relatives and friends coming down from usa/uk/singapore etc:D

Right. But don't forget to mention Dubai. It can be cheaper from here.
 

nitinbose

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Gentlemen, (Ladies if there are any),

I have a hunch that this site is somehow connected with circuit city and are selling their leftover products.

Because the products and brands seen are quite common in circuit city outlets.

Thanks,

Nitin.
 

ashishkesarwani

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They sell products sourced from US and some of the latest models are far more cheaper as compared with the same model here. The price includes the custom duty and then the shiiping charges are also reasonable. For eg: Panasonic Blu Ray Player model BDP-BD60 is availiable for Rs. 17000 which includes shiping by air and Custom Duty. Whereas in India its availiable for Rs 24000, even if we buy a step up or step down convertor for the same that would mean additional 500 to 600 expense which is again cheaper then what we get it here for.They also have a call ceter based in Bangalore so you can call them and get all the information required.
 

venkatcr

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For eg: Panasonic Blu Ray Player model BDP-BD60 is availiable for Rs. 17000 which includes shiping by air and Custom Duty. Whereas in India its availiable for Rs 24000, even if we buy a step up or step down convertor for the same that would mean additional 500 to 600 expense which is again cheaper then what we get it here for.They also have a call ceter based in Bangalore so you can call them and get all the information required.

If a product is X Rupees by a legal channel through the manufacturer's own distribution methodology, I wonder how anybody can sell stuff at a lower price. There is something fishy. The products are either being smuggled into the country in an organised manner, or they are seconds or refurbished units that the web site has picked up cheap.

If I were buying through such methods I would demand a written warranty as well as a copy of the customs receipt with serial number of the product shown. If the operator is legal, he should be able to show that easily. If not, I don't know what to say.

In Delhi there is market where you can pick up any electronics item you want. The shopkeeper will then stick whatever label you want - Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer - you name the company he has the label.

In our quest for cheaper items let us not cross a threshold of business ethics. When you get any item at low cost, please remember there is a catch somewhere.

In my mind the only way you can get something lower than the price in India is to buy it yourself from a good shop in places such as the US, Europe, Dubai or Singapore, and manage to bring it across with either zero or very low customs duty. Or the product is manufactured or assembled in India. I cannot think of a third way that is straight forward. I am talking about current models.

Cheers
 

iaudio

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If a product is X Rupees by a legal channel through the manufacturer's own distribution methodology, I wonder how anybody can sell stuff at a lower price. There is something fishy. The products are either being smuggled into the country in an organised manner, or they are seconds or refurbished units that the web site has picked up cheap.

If I were buying through such methods I would demand a written warranty as well as a copy of the customs receipt with serial number of the product shown. If the operator is legal, he should be able to show that easily. If not, I don't know what to say.

In Delhi there is market where you can pick up any electronics item you want. The shopkeeper will then stick whatever label you want - Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer - you name the company he has the label.

In our quest for cheaper items let us not cross a threshold of business ethics. When you get any item at low cost, please remember there is a catch somewhere.

In my mind the only way you can get something lower than the price in India is to buy it yourself from a good shop in places such as the US, Europe, Dubai or Singapore, and manage to bring it across with either zero or very low customs duty. Or the product is manufactured or assembled in India. I cannot think of a third way that is straight forward. I am talking about current models.

Cheers

Exactly! Venkat sirs post hits the main point! How can the site be allowed to sell the product at a much cheaper price than the indian market price? :confused:
If this was possible one wouldnt have to pay more than double the international price to buy a superbike in India!:mad:
 

grubyhalo

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...How can the site be allowed to sell the product at a much cheaper price than the indian market price? :confused:...

Greedy dealers could be part of the reason. Based on what I've read on the site, they appear to be legit. I might bite by ordering my favorite sneaker from there to see how their service is...
 

hemantwaghe

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If a product is X Rupees by a legal channel through the manufacturer's own distribution methodology, I wonder how anybody can sell stuff at a lower price. There is something fishy. The products are either being smuggled into the country in an organised manner, or they are seconds or refurbished units that the web site has picked up cheap.

Venkat yes ,there might be something fishy-but then greedy indian distributors are main culprit.
The markup is high really high....
And in international markets discounts can go lower and lower -especially in electronics and in fashion industry ,when replacement arrives1
How come you explain the ver high price of OPPO DVD palyers???

I've seen discounts of the tune of 60-70 % on watches & fashion items in Dubai in 2003-04. At that time when avarage tissot chronograh was costin 15+ k in India I bought one @ RS 5600 In Dubai! If you check international hi-fi mags you see a lot of stuff available at lower price.

A example I can give is in India a semi premium whisky wll cost around Rs 3500-4000 a litre ( Chivas Regal) Same you can procure in Duty free around INR 1100-1300!

Funnily our customs treats 1 item for personnel consumption and multiple for commercial us ---so there is a point that these sites may be involved in some illegal sales...

Unless someone come who bought from these sites and tell what kind of papers he got
 

reju

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(Look at the prices for the Polk LSi9 and LSi15 and you'll see what I mean).

But I have seen that in US bookshelves are always more expensive than FS. I had mentioned this some other thread. You may find such difference in Amazon as well.
 

venkatcr

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I am not supporting any distributor or dealer, but I will try to answer some of questions raised by Hemanth. There is something called Economics that includes supply and demand. If you take an amp, for example, when it is released it will, let us say, be sold at 1000 a piece. After about 2 or 3 years, the same product will be sold at 600 to 700 a piece. You can see this happening very much in TVs. Is the manufacturer cheating us when he sells at 1000 a piece? There are a number of factors that control the price:

1. Estimated demand in the market
2. Investment made on the design and development of the technology
3. Investment made on distribution, marketing, advertisements and a lot of other steps taken by the manufacturer to get the product to the market.
4. Profit percentage that the manufacturer is expecting.

As the product matures in the market, the manufacturer gets back a major portion of the investment. At the same time, the product becomes less competitive as better products would have arrived. Thus the manufacturer will reduce the prices to keep the product moving till the date he feels it is not worthwhile any more.

When a product is sold in places such as Dubai, Singapore or other free markets, the pricing of the products are based mostly on supply and demand.

In India, for the products we are looking at, the market environment is completely different. Most manufactures have no idea how many pieces will sell. For example, for companies like Bridgestone, Indian's full annual off take is just 7 days production in one of their factories in Japan or the US. What happens in an environment like this is that the economies of scale are turned completely topsy turvy. Why would Bridgestone, for example, every bother about a production centre in India when they can divert just 7 days production from one of their factories?

In India, demand is just not enough for any product for economies of scale to set in. This is even more relevant for products such as amplifiers, speakers, and AVR that we are all looking at. So the products have to be sold through a set of national distributors, who in turn appoint regional or city wise dealers. Again the number of products moving through this whole system is so small that it just does not justify any major investment. For example, if a distributor goes to Onkyo, for example and say I will take 10,000 pieces, he will get a much better price than when he picks up, say, 500 pieces. But what does the Indian distributor do? He only picks up against orders as he is never sure how many pieces will move. And then when you place an order with a dealer, you want the product yesterday. So air freight, transportation insurance, and customs duties and other expenses come in. Just place an order with your dealer and tell him you are ready to wait for 4 to 6 weeks for delivery. You will get a different price. To satisfy a prospective customer, distributors and dealers take the risk of stocking items that may never be sold. This is also an investment.

All these add to the landed cost of products in India. You can ask me the question why should I bother about all this when I can get in from Dubai at half the price. You are correct that you can do that, and that is because the government of India is allowing you to do that. You cannot do that with all products such as cars, for example. Since we do not have major investments in India on Audio / Video products, the Government does not think that the industry needs protection against what is called dumping. The day the government changes it's mind, you will not be able to get any of these products through any means whatsoever.

The only way this will change is when the demand in the country goes up and manufacturers start investing in production/assembly centres in India. This has happened in small audio products, TVs and such items. Unless demand for AVRs and amp goes by 500 times or so, none of the major manufacturers will show any interest in our market. This is simple Economics.

-but then greedy indian distributors are main culprit. The markup is high really high....And in international markets discounts can go lower and lower -especially in electronics and in fashion industry ,when replacement arrives1 How come you explain the ver high price of OPPO DVD palyers???

Do you know how many pieces the National distributor has sold of the Oppo 981? Less than 100 in one full year. Yes we all discussed the Oppo to death. We are about 3000 members in HVF. How may members purchased the Oppo? Ten? Twenty? I doubt it will be more than that. I am aware that the distributor has imported over 500 pieces. What do you expect him to do with the unsold 400 pieces when the product is getting out of date? If he finds a market in Philippines or Singapore, he will just ship it out.

I've seen discounts of the tune of 60-70 % on watches & fashion items in Dubai in 2003-04. At that time when avarage tissot chronograh was costin 15+ k in India I bought one @ RS 5600 In Dubai! If you check international hi-fi mags you see a lot of stuff available at lower price.

Large discount are given for only one reason. And that is to empty shelf space and remove stocks from warehouses. The cost of maintaining non moving stock for a shop is more expensive as compared to losing on the volumes, margins and demand for a current product.

A example I can give is in India a semi premium whisky wll cost around Rs 3500-4000 a litre ( Chivas Regal) Same you can procure in Duty free around INR 1100-1300!

Liquor is a different matter altogether. The central and state governments have different rules, duties and other taxes on liquor. In most states, the minimum duty and taxes usually upto 100% or more. In Dubai and duty free shops, these duties and taxes do not apply. That is why each traveller is allowed to bring in 2 bottles into the country.

Funnily our customs treats 1 item for personnel consumption and multiple for commercial us ---so there is a point that these sites may be involved in some illegal sales...

That is how it is done around the world. Will you go to a shop and buy 5 wrist watches or 10 TVs for yourself, and that too in one purchase? If anyone brings in more that one item when coming into the country, the customs officers will naturally be suspicious.

Cheers
 
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cmsajith

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Could somebody please tell me how much a 100" (16:9) or 115" (4:3) manual pull down projection screen (Matt White) costs? Please asap.. This post is not to hijack this thread... Once i get a reply (to confirm), i can tell you something about the 20North.
 
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venkatcr

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venkat, I agree with the principles of what you're saying, but obviously this is a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. Unless prices are competitive, the number of buyers will remain low. In a country like ours the number of people interested in hifi is very low, even people who have the money.

I agree completely. Unfortunately this again boils down to investment and use of time. I know of people who think spending their time and money on the finance market market earns them more revenue per rupee invested than on A/V products.

During discussions with distributors and dealers, I was quite shocked to hear that most of them, in their hearts at least, hate audiophiles and videophiles. They feel that such people ask too many questions, ask for prices, bargain ceaselessly, and go and buy from some other dealer. A person who is slightly 'dumb' (pardon the expression) about these things is much easier to deal with. Thy are happier to deal with people who come in, mention a budget, and ask for the best possible within that budget. I have sensed a great reluctance in retail outlets after the first few minutes when I start asking questions.

BTW, at least in this thread, we are sticking to the topic - Retailing of audio and video products.

Cheers
 

anm

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have sent mail to their customer support with link to this thread. Hope someone from their team will answer.

regards
 

psychotropic

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venkat and others,

i am fairly sure that 20north is completely legit and are not "smuggling" or anything. How this works is this.

The Indian AV distributors and dealers price components with a very high margin. Their justification is that for someone to get the similar component from the cuntry of origin or the US, not just the duties, but the sheer logistics and hassle of importation would not make it worthwhile for them to bring it in, which is why an Onkyo 606 which costs 20k rupees there is sold for 36-40k here. THis is the gap that 20north hopes to fill, where the cost + shipping + duty will still be lower than the high-margin price that is slapped on these components by their official distributors.

There are some distributors like the distributors for cambridge audio, mordaunt short, wharfedale, Usher, Sennheiser etc., who are not indulging in this usury which results in components being available in India for prices which are near or slightly higher the prices in the country of origin, if you look at products from these brands, you will not find any or much savings when buying from 20north.com.

Of course buying an electronic item also means getting a transformer for the voltage and all that, but even then buying from 20north seems like a decent deal, when you are dealing with the "super high margin" brands. Of course how good their logistics and service are is not something any of us can comment on without trying the out.
 

doors666

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some of the prices are odd and dont make sense. KEF PSW2500 sub costs 32k in india, while these guys are quoting like 52k + shipping.
 
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