Altec 2 ways

[prem]

Hi Yogibear

When you are in Delhi next try and listen to a 2 way Altec using the 288 and the 515 in a mid bass horn at Virens place. Viren is the owner of Lyrita Audio

 

[prem]

You can also listen to a 604 using active amplification at Malvais place in Gurgaon. Once you listen to both you can form your own preference

 

[Srinath_seshadri]

What I have heard about a 515 is that - It is the most natural replicators of human voices. That would imply its response range has to be 300 - 3500 hz and nearly flat response all the way across.

I have to stand in front of it and check what it sounds like - I have not done it yet. I may buy those GPA replica's if I cant find a 515 soon. Before that I need to caliberate my 421 with an active XO. Then I'll have a reference point.
Cool.
Srinath.

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,

This should be useful to members wanting to know the different Altec models.

The Altec 421 is a Musical Instrument(MI) speaker. Different animal from the 515 and 416. It was designed for a different application.

http://www.vallieur.de/Grafiken/Boxen/Scans/Small_Altec.pdf

http://www.vallieur.de/Grafiken/Boxen/Scans/Large_Altec.pdf

Regards
Rajiv

 

[Srinath_seshadri]

I've not seen that link - but here is the links I have used in the past.

For 416/515:
http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/vintage_altec/416A_LF_Speakers.pdf

For 421:
http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/vintage_altec/421A_lfspkr_spec_sheet.pdf


I have no idea what any of these specs mean until I am standing in front of it with it blaring. Further, I have to be able to adjust the crossover on each. The 421 is supposed to be useable 35hz to 8000 hz. Give me a break. No way it will ever paly 8000 hz right. It has an ugly peak @ 2000, but you can cut it down a bit with a zobel. But no way past 3000 is it ever going to be used. Of course they intend it as a guitar speaker so it has a bit of a need to go that high. I dunno, I'll cross out of it 2k-3K.

I'd have to experiemnt with them and then I'd probably know.

A 515, I have never even seen. I am probably going to buy the GPS item sometime, but I am hoping to get my 421/811+807 dialed in by then.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[kartick]

Hi Yogibear

When you are in Delhi next try and listen to a 2 way Altec using the 288 and the 515 in a mid bass horn at Virens place. Viren is the owner of Lyrita Audio

Hi, to my best knowledge, Viren Sir's speakers house a 416 and not the 515 as the woofer paired with a 288c as the HF.

Also, I listened to the 416 in both ported box & bass horn cabinet designs and the presentation of LF is absolutely distinct from each other. For someone like me who desires punchy bass and listens to a wide variety of genres, ported box designs works better. The bass envelops the listening space more than it does in the bass horn design. Bass horn design on the other hand could prove to be an acquired taste for listeners who have been exposed to conventional cabinet designs for the most part of their audio journey. Although in my last listening session with Viren sir, I listened to many songs & felt that the 416 in bass horn design exuded tremendous mid bass throw and the LF energies were very directional. Texture trumps quantity here. I also found it was genre limiting to some extent. I still prefer the ported design more than the bass horns.

 

[prem]

Hi Kartick, thanks for the clarification. I thought he used the 515. In the ported box I think he uses the Eminence

 

[Srinath_seshadri]

No EV when yo usay it as Evie sounds more like a girl.
You need girlfriend Evie.
Cool.
Srinath.

 

[prem]

Hi yogibear, if you want below 40 hz people add a sub using Tone Tubby drivers with their 515 mid bass horn

 

[rajagopal_j]

Hi, to my best knowledge, Viren Sir's speakers house a 416 and not the 515 as the woofer paired with a 288c as the HF.

Hi Kartick, thanks for the clarification. I thought he used the 515. In the ported box I think he uses the Eminence

Viren has paired a JBL woofer, don't remember the model though It has a shiny dust cap, with the Altec 288C.

What George is using is an Altec 416 paired with an Altec 288K.

While the 288C is big and has an alnico magnet, the 288K is a monster and has a massive ferrite magnet. They are slightly different in sound, the 288C has a slightly lush midrange but starts to roll of much earlier. The 288K has really relatively good HF extension.

The horn grande is an interesting design, it has a bass horn (with compression chamber) for the front throw and a ported box for the rear throw. While the horn provides the constant directivity, the ported rear gives the much expected thump. Use an Altec large format HF with a 450Hz cutoff and an Altec woofer it will shine

Box/Baffle design is a personal preference, there is no reference here. Think about it, every design is genre limiting in some sense right? Once your listen to blues and jazz on a horn/open baffle design you will not like the same in a bass reflex, too much unnatural bass, while a techno/trance song will never sound good in an open baffle. It boils down to what you are willing to put up with.

Making a weighted average of your listening needs is the optimal solution.

 

[rajagopal_j]

Whatever little I have read so far, 515's are to be housed in a back-loaded horn type cabinet, tricky to execute. Is it a SIN to house them in ported box?

Can you give a link to this? I have never read this. To my best knowledge, the best design for the Altec 416/515 is the Jean Hiraga Onken bass reflex box.

The Altecs Model 5 that I have are 2 way, ported box and termed as bookshelves by Altecs and are rather floor standers in 2 cubic feet, by todays standards ! No wonder what 9 cubic feet 515 wud look like.

Altec woofers require really large boxes to work well in a bass reflex design. Also they require very large rooms as well.

Guys in US, using 515/288 combo say that the mid range and mid-bass is the best on earth but they do miss the lower bass extension. Someone even wanted to pair the 515 with JBLs 2225 for the punch using a same cabinet.

I totally agree to the 515/288 combo being the best, Once your listen to a large format (2xx) there is no way you will like the smaller format drivers (8xx, 6xx).
Lower bass extension is a very personal preference.

How do re-coned Altecs from GPA kit compare to the original one, sonically?

I use GPA paper on my 416 and GPA diaphragms on my 288k, they are superb.

I would give preference to music reproduction over power.

If you really want the instruments to sound exactly like they would in real life including percussion, then you should listen to the altecs on open baffles

 

[captrajesh]

the best design for the Altec 416/515 is the Jean Hiraga Onken bass reflex box.

Is that what Srinisundar has made? But IIRC his were 804; right?

If you really want the instruments to sound exactly like they would in real life including percussion, then you should listen to the altecs on open baffles

It is said that those drivers which are designed to work in boxes should not be played in free air to avoid over excursion of the voice coil. Isn't it a risk you are taking? How do you prevent this happening?

 

[rajagopal_j]

Is that what Srinisundar has made? But IIRC his were 804; right?

Yes, Srini has made the petit onken, which is a smaller version of the large onken. He has a 12" Altec woofer for which the petite onken is design for.

This has nothing to do with the HF unit (802) which is kept outside the box.

It is said that those drivers which are designed to work in boxes should not be played in free air to avoid over excursion of the voice coil. Isn't it a risk you are taking? How do you prevent this happening?

All drivers are designed for a box of some kind. There are hardly any free air applications for drivers, very niche.

Just because you mounted a driver in an open baffle does not mean the voice coil will pop out of the gap. Drivers best suited for an open baffle design are drivers with good xmax (large vc travel), meaning they have good excursion and will withstand large travel which the design requires. Drivers like the lowthers are not good on open baffles due to low xmax and shine better in a BLH design.

In reality, I haven't seen my 416 move at all, even at fairly high volumes.

 

[prem]

Hi Rajagopal

Viren uses the Altecs 416 with the 288c. He used to have the JBL which got replaced with the 416 in the mid bass horn

In the other iteration he uses Eminence compression driver and a 12 inch or a 15 inch Eninence woofer

 

[kartick]

Viren has paired a JBL woofer, don't remember the model though It has a shiny dust cap, with the Altec 288C.

What George is using is an Altec 416 paired with an Altec 288K.

While the 288C is big and has an alnico magnet, the 288K is a monster and has a massive ferrite magnet. They are slightly different in sound, the 288C has a slightly lush midrange but starts to roll of much earlier. The 288K has really relatively good HF extension.

The horn grande is an interesting design, it has a bass horn (with compression chamber) for the front throw and a ported box for the rear throw. While the horn provides the constant directivity, the ported rear gives the much expected thump. Use an Altec large format HF with a 450Hz cutoff and an Altec woofer it will shine

Box/Baffle design is a personal preference, there is no reference here. Think about it, every design is genre limiting in some sense right? Once your listen to blues and jazz on a horn/open baffle design you will not like the same in a bass reflex, too much unnatural bass, while a techno/trance song will never sound good in an open baffle. It boils down to what you are willing to put up with.

Making a weighted average of your listening needs is the optimal solution.

Hi Raj,

Seems you haven't spoken to Viren sir for a long time. JBL is old news now. Viren sir is using the 416/288 combo.

Cheers.

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,

Regarding my queries to comparison between the older Alnico LF's and later ferrites LF, I came across this:

Audio Asylum Thread Printer

Some banter/argument was there too......

Alnico vs Ferrite, Digital vs Analog, Tubes vs SS, etc these debates are never ending.

Listen for yourself and then choose what you like.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[arj]

Regarding my queries to comparison between the older Alnico LF's and later ferrites LF, I came across this:

Audio Asylum Thread Printer

Some banter/argument was there too......

I liked this particular comment I would just replace audiophiles with people in general !

Anyway I think these Alnico fetishists are full of ****, audiophiles like believing in nonsense and have an endless capacity for self-delusion. Me included.

 

[GeorgeO]

Update:
I connected my Anthem El 34 pp amp's 16 ohms taps to the speaker terminals on the rear and connected my HF units to them. The diaphragms were 16 ohms and the tap had to be soldered, which I finally did-so far I was using the 8 ohms tap.. It sounds a little better now, with bass a little more pronounced.

 

[Srinath_seshadri]

I got some more craziness to add to this altec madness. AKA, more crazy cabinets and random junk.
If I've exhausted my space allowed for pics etc, how to add pics ?
Thanks.
Srinath.

 

[GeorgeO]

Finally made my HF unit cradles from solid blocks of teak wood, will complete the polishing today. I plan to fix a thin layer of felt on the base to insulate them from any vibrations from the LF enclosures on which they are placed. The HF units hav been lowered by around 2-3 inches and I think for the time being there is not much more to do on this build.( Famous last words!)