How about upgrading the cross-over with the HB technique which i was mentioning some 2 months ago. The cross-over frequency will also undergo change with some changes in the filter components too.
An evening spent 'tweaking' Avidyarthy's ATL Speakers
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How about upgrading the cross-over with the HB technique which i was mentioning some 2 months ago. The cross-over frequency will also undergo change with some changes in the filter components too.
fran_elite
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avidyarthy
Well-Known Member
Let me summarize all that I happened to learn during the 3 hours audition of the TLs and Jamo d830s .... together.
The Lyrita IC was replaced with the Goldy one brought by Core.
1. The Jamo was played first. It sounded very dynamic, bright (I prefer bright sound), very clear, had wholesome bass (unlike what was reported earlier by Core to it to possess very lean bass). The separation was fantastic, the soundstage adequate.
2. The Jamo d830 is a bright speaker. But, it does not fall in the category of ear-fatiguing. The Goldy RCA was a perfect match for the Jamo .... why .... because it is a 'warm' cable. The laid back characteristic of the cable helped in supressing the brightness of the Jamo.
Let me confess, I was a bit disappointed hearing the ATLs (floorstanders) immediately after hearing to the Jamo. Had forgotten totally about the 'change' in the chain which I had been using till then. Was agast at the clumsiness of the ATLs, extreme laid back SQ, rounded sound, though smooth. The bass, though present was sounding dead, instead of tight. Had we not compared the two speakers side-by-side, the reason for this difference could never have been established.
The ATL being a slightly laid back, tubey sound HAS to be complimented with a 'bright' IC. The regular Lyrita IC, is a 'bright' one and a perfect match with the ATLs.
When the audition came to an end, Core happened to connect back the taken-off Lyrita IC ... and immediately my unshown depression was laid to rest. The SQ before the audition began .... had retuned in a jiffy.
So, a new lesson for all in here ..... conduct auditions on ICs too. My Gawd! what difference it brings in ... both, good and bad. The ICs handle very weak source-generated signals ... and any kind of resistance in its path can make tremendous difference to the SQ. This characteristic of the cable resistance determines 'quite a bit' on the SQ from the speakers, since 'these' weak signals would get amplified many times over. The overall effect of the IC is far greater to the speaker cable IMO ... digested now.
3. Coming back to the Jamo d830 .... mindblowing stuff! Such small speakers (very heavy at >12 kg each) and this SQ ... :clapping:. Did not try though, but it is quite clear now that those could easily have been ear-fatiguing with the Lyrita ICs.
So, its all a game of balancing the chain. Each component is crucial ... the source ... the ICs ... the amplifier .... the speaker cable ... and lastly, the speaker itself. Any short cuts and impatience during procurement, and you would be yearning for a new buy the moment you hear anything better.
The Lyrita IC was replaced with the Goldy one brought by Core.
1. The Jamo was played first. It sounded very dynamic, bright (I prefer bright sound), very clear, had wholesome bass (unlike what was reported earlier by Core to it to possess very lean bass). The separation was fantastic, the soundstage adequate.
2. The Jamo d830 is a bright speaker. But, it does not fall in the category of ear-fatiguing. The Goldy RCA was a perfect match for the Jamo .... why .... because it is a 'warm' cable. The laid back characteristic of the cable helped in supressing the brightness of the Jamo.
Let me confess, I was a bit disappointed hearing the ATLs (floorstanders) immediately after hearing to the Jamo. Had forgotten totally about the 'change' in the chain which I had been using till then. Was agast at the clumsiness of the ATLs, extreme laid back SQ, rounded sound, though smooth. The bass, though present was sounding dead, instead of tight. Had we not compared the two speakers side-by-side, the reason for this difference could never have been established.
The ATL being a slightly laid back, tubey sound HAS to be complimented with a 'bright' IC. The regular Lyrita IC, is a 'bright' one and a perfect match with the ATLs.
When the audition came to an end, Core happened to connect back the taken-off Lyrita IC ... and immediately my unshown depression was laid to rest. The SQ before the audition began .... had retuned in a jiffy.
So, a new lesson for all in here ..... conduct auditions on ICs too. My Gawd! what difference it brings in ... both, good and bad. The ICs handle very weak source-generated signals ... and any kind of resistance in its path can make tremendous difference to the SQ. This characteristic of the cable resistance determines 'quite a bit' on the SQ from the speakers, since 'these' weak signals would get amplified many times over. The overall effect of the IC is far greater to the speaker cable IMO ... digested now.
3. Coming back to the Jamo d830 .... mindblowing stuff! Such small speakers (very heavy at >12 kg each) and this SQ ... :clapping:. Did not try though, but it is quite clear now that those could easily have been ear-fatiguing with the Lyrita ICs.
So, its all a game of balancing the chain. Each component is crucial ... the source ... the ICs ... the amplifier .... the speaker cable ... and lastly, the speaker itself. Any short cuts and impatience during procurement, and you would be yearning for a new buy the moment you hear anything better.
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corElement
Well-Known Member
Just got home from Avid's place, it was a fun afternoon and listening session.
After both of us carried one heavy bookshelf each upstairs to the listening room and opening them up from the plastic, Atish liked the finish and mentioned on the lines of how Jamo should never have changed their designs to what they are now.
Anyway he put on an Indian classical CD, I don't remember what track was playing but I mentioned to atish the sound from the ATL was different. It was brighter, more open and less congested. Atish suggested it was because of the corrected tweeter however it was more than that. The sound signature of both the towers were different from what I remember (In the previous visit one tower was malfunctioning and one wasnt, I remember the sound signature of both of them)
So my guess was that the only thing on the line that could have made this difference was the lyrita IC cable. This was confirmed at the end of our session which you'll find out later in this post if you're reading this.
So I listened to the ATL's for a bit with Indian vocal classical, the recording seemed decent and the atl's round sound signature goes very well with indian classical.
Then we played Hotel California on the ATL's which again demonstrated it's ability to put out very natural full sounding vocals and playful drumbeats.
Now we hooked up the d830's (It was a bit of a hassle as I had no jumpers so we had to cut out more exposed wire to link the two pairs of binding posts together.) And played hotel California again. The sound was quite bright and sparkly and atish mentioned a lack of separation so decided to swap the lyrita interconnect between the cd player and krell amp to my Bogdan Audio Goldy cables.
For each channel they use 3 solid copper cores with silver plating terminated with Eichmann Bullets. The Eichmann bullets uses a different concept from traditional rca connectors. You can read about it here. Basically the goldy's have dramatically low distortion and any harshness from the source to the amp is eliminated. To me this was already known from using it at home but atish didnt entirely notice it at first but he was giving less attention to technicalities and more to the music. Suffice to say I think he was enjoying the jamos. The sound was still bright but not as bright as before but instrument separation started to reveal themselves in Hotel California. Atish said it sounds more dynamic than what he's used to on the ATL. The d830's have a lot of bass for being bookshelves but the bass is different from floorstanders, it's more like projected rather than a hum.
It was just a chill n chat hangout session with an amazing lunch inbetween courtesy Avid's lovely wife who made ultra fantastic kebab rice with chicken curry, fish curry, chicken nuggets and raita! :licklips::licklips::licklips:
After lunch we listened to some Julio iglesias (Father of Enrique), Swan Lake by Tchaikovsky, then came to Sultans of Swing by Dire Straits. The jamo's handled the Guitar sequence really well. I felt the cello in swan lake and drums in Dire straits were somewhat lacking in the Jamo's but it's not something one misses when the rest of the spectrum is being performed really well.
Once sultans of swings finished took the wire from the d830s' and plugged it into the ATL's (This is now the ATL's running on Bogdan Audio IC instead of lyrita). The atl's undoubtedly had a much larger body of sound however it was lacking somewhat of definition. Atish probably noticed it as well. The sound was very round and gentle and playful (At this point both of us had forgotten the Goldy cable was connected) and we both sort of reached a consensus where we felt the peerless drivers might be the culprit. I felt it was more the tweeter than the woofer.
Eitherways it was time to leave so I packed up everything and left the room for a bit. Atish was reconnecting his lyrita's taking off my Goldy's from the rear and he seemed to be taken aback. The sound on the ATL's opened up with the lyrita IC and he said the ATL's much better with the lyrita cable and the Bogdan's better with the Jamos. And that's exactly what I felt when I first arrived!
The ATL's benefit from the lyrita IC in gaining brightness the same way as how my d830's benefit from Eichmann Goldy cables in controlling the brightness. It was VERY very evident.
The atl's with the lyrita's are quite nice and good all round performers.
The only thing is I would say it's not suitable for electronic, trance and textured music. Even with the lyrita IC it would still not be suitable for those genres. And since Atish does not listen to those Genre's it's no issue for him, but I listen to a lot of those genres so not entirely suited for me.
In the same way, the Jamo d830's are extremely dynamic but it cant perform indian classical and old 50's 60's western classics and classicals the way the ATL's can. However on that note, given the fact it's so drastically affected and revealing of the equipment it's connected to I feel the we haven't seen the true potential of the d830's. Maybe 80% of it. It can and will totally take advantage of very high quality amplification. Sad part is finding one thats better than either my ca840a or the krell 400xi which my wallet can afford!
Here are some pics
ROFLMAO collin farrel is being overused on this forum
hyeah:
After both of us carried one heavy bookshelf each upstairs to the listening room and opening them up from the plastic, Atish liked the finish and mentioned on the lines of how Jamo should never have changed their designs to what they are now.
Anyway he put on an Indian classical CD, I don't remember what track was playing but I mentioned to atish the sound from the ATL was different. It was brighter, more open and less congested. Atish suggested it was because of the corrected tweeter however it was more than that. The sound signature of both the towers were different from what I remember (In the previous visit one tower was malfunctioning and one wasnt, I remember the sound signature of both of them)
So my guess was that the only thing on the line that could have made this difference was the lyrita IC cable. This was confirmed at the end of our session which you'll find out later in this post if you're reading this.
So I listened to the ATL's for a bit with Indian vocal classical, the recording seemed decent and the atl's round sound signature goes very well with indian classical.
Then we played Hotel California on the ATL's which again demonstrated it's ability to put out very natural full sounding vocals and playful drumbeats.
Now we hooked up the d830's (It was a bit of a hassle as I had no jumpers so we had to cut out more exposed wire to link the two pairs of binding posts together.) And played hotel California again. The sound was quite bright and sparkly and atish mentioned a lack of separation so decided to swap the lyrita interconnect between the cd player and krell amp to my Bogdan Audio Goldy cables.
For each channel they use 3 solid copper cores with silver plating terminated with Eichmann Bullets. The Eichmann bullets uses a different concept from traditional rca connectors. You can read about it here. Basically the goldy's have dramatically low distortion and any harshness from the source to the amp is eliminated. To me this was already known from using it at home but atish didnt entirely notice it at first but he was giving less attention to technicalities and more to the music. Suffice to say I think he was enjoying the jamos. The sound was still bright but not as bright as before but instrument separation started to reveal themselves in Hotel California. Atish said it sounds more dynamic than what he's used to on the ATL. The d830's have a lot of bass for being bookshelves but the bass is different from floorstanders, it's more like projected rather than a hum.
It was just a chill n chat hangout session with an amazing lunch inbetween courtesy Avid's lovely wife who made ultra fantastic kebab rice with chicken curry, fish curry, chicken nuggets and raita! :licklips::licklips::licklips:
After lunch we listened to some Julio iglesias (Father of Enrique), Swan Lake by Tchaikovsky, then came to Sultans of Swing by Dire Straits. The jamo's handled the Guitar sequence really well. I felt the cello in swan lake and drums in Dire straits were somewhat lacking in the Jamo's but it's not something one misses when the rest of the spectrum is being performed really well.
Once sultans of swings finished took the wire from the d830s' and plugged it into the ATL's (This is now the ATL's running on Bogdan Audio IC instead of lyrita). The atl's undoubtedly had a much larger body of sound however it was lacking somewhat of definition. Atish probably noticed it as well. The sound was very round and gentle and playful (At this point both of us had forgotten the Goldy cable was connected) and we both sort of reached a consensus where we felt the peerless drivers might be the culprit. I felt it was more the tweeter than the woofer.
Eitherways it was time to leave so I packed up everything and left the room for a bit. Atish was reconnecting his lyrita's taking off my Goldy's from the rear and he seemed to be taken aback. The sound on the ATL's opened up with the lyrita IC and he said the ATL's much better with the lyrita cable and the Bogdan's better with the Jamos. And that's exactly what I felt when I first arrived!
The ATL's benefit from the lyrita IC in gaining brightness the same way as how my d830's benefit from Eichmann Goldy cables in controlling the brightness. It was VERY very evident.
The atl's with the lyrita's are quite nice and good all round performers.
The only thing is I would say it's not suitable for electronic, trance and textured music. Even with the lyrita IC it would still not be suitable for those genres. And since Atish does not listen to those Genre's it's no issue for him, but I listen to a lot of those genres so not entirely suited for me.
In the same way, the Jamo d830's are extremely dynamic but it cant perform indian classical and old 50's 60's western classics and classicals the way the ATL's can. However on that note, given the fact it's so drastically affected and revealing of the equipment it's connected to I feel the we haven't seen the true potential of the d830's. Maybe 80% of it. It can and will totally take advantage of very high quality amplification. Sad part is finding one thats better than either my ca840a or the krell 400xi which my wallet can afford!
Here are some pics
Looks like you are high on some 'intoxicant'
Yea, this is core's expression at the moment
ROFLMAO collin farrel is being overused on this forum
hyeah:
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corElement
Well-Known Member
Oh you posted before me!
Funny how we described our thoughts the exact same way haha. The difference between the two IC's was seriously disturbing wasn't it? Who would have imagined it made that huge a difference.
srinisundar
Well-Known Member
Avd,
Try pairing the ATL speakers against Krell with another amplifier which give equivalent power, then you will know full difference and you may know the potential of speakers
Do not believe in Krell 400xi and come to an conclusion
Regards
Try pairing the ATL speakers against Krell with another amplifier which give equivalent power, then you will know full difference and you may know the potential of speakers
Do not believe in Krell 400xi and come to an conclusionRegards
corElement
Well-Known Member
Avd,
Try pairing the ATL speakers against Krell with another amplifier which give equivalent power, then you will know full difference and you may know the potential of speakers
Regards
What are your suggestions?
srinisundar
Well-Known Member
Any Integrated amps like NAD also will do.
But the power should match the Krell 400xi.Regards
corElement
Well-Known Member
Any Integrated amps like NAD also will do.
Regards
I don't think it will be easy get ones hands on a class A NAD integrated in Delhi =\
Then again, I have a feeling the ATL's might sound better on a class A/B amp from what I saw with the lyrita cables.
However regardless, as the setup is right now with the krell and lyrita cable, I don't think he needs any change for a long time. :licklips:
2chFreak
New Member
corElement
Well-Known Member
NAD making Class-A amps ?
I don't know, all I know is other than virens tube amps and some very high end amps with only a select few people, it's hard to come across people with class a amps in delhi, pure class a or high bias.
Moving around the ATL is not practical and asking someone to bring over their amp without the circumstance of a meetup is not practical either. Especially when it's just to hear it without any important reason. I know because I've done so. It's hard work and takes a lot of time and it was to help setup the ATL's when it first arrived. And from what I've heard the atl's are quite at home with the Krell and lyrita IC.
We haven't had a proper Delhi meet since 2010.
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I am planning to build a class A amp for my personal use 50W + 50W solid state which will be Nelson Pass stage. Currently the project is under study phase and am doing the feasibility study with respect to time, cost and final quality.
corElement
Well-Known Member
Nice!
hyeah: hyeah: wish I knew how to haha but even if I did I'd probably never get around to it at this stage of my life :licklips:avidyarthy
Well-Known Member
Cmon ..... 57 is still pretty passable. In the US, this bracket usually live-in with the P bunnies ..... 
avidyarthy
Well-Known Member
For a change, had the 70+ (age bracket) crowd, comprising of Dadus, Didas, Meshomoshois and Pishemoshois of our neighbourhood troop in today for quite an elongated listen of 'Rabindra Sangeet', Baul Geet and other traditional Bengali folk of yesteryears. I believe it is a result of the word-of-mouth from some of the younger generation which made it happen. Who am I to say no?
I have been into Western and Hindustani classical ... vocals and instruments, some rock and selected Bollywood .. predominantly .. uptil now. Did'nt try out the Bengali CDs which I possess ... only a few. Most are on LPs.
Since the TLs play the vocals with excellence, I too ended up being engrossed by the 'depth and feel' of the ones heard today. Most of the CDs belonged to the visitors ... and never once did I feel left-out due to inability to fully understand the meaning of the recitals. There was one which stood out .. inked by Nazrul .... starting with Bolobir Unnoto Momoshir .. ended up getting goosebumps ..... so, would now start collecting the till-now left-out massive .. massive Bengali offerings on CD ...
... more expenses lined up, huh!
I have been into Western and Hindustani classical ... vocals and instruments, some rock and selected Bollywood .. predominantly .. uptil now. Did'nt try out the Bengali CDs which I possess ... only a few. Most are on LPs.
Since the TLs play the vocals with excellence, I too ended up being engrossed by the 'depth and feel' of the ones heard today. Most of the CDs belonged to the visitors ... and never once did I feel left-out due to inability to fully understand the meaning of the recitals. There was one which stood out .. inked by Nazrul .... starting with Bolobir Unnoto Momoshir .. ended up getting goosebumps ..... so, would now start collecting the till-now left-out massive .. massive Bengali offerings on CD ...
... more expenses lined up, huh!
M
mpw
Guest
the TL's are attracting the opposite crowd that u wannja attract avid...
any 20 something PYT's ?
)
mpw
any 20 something PYT's ?
)mpw
corElement
Well-Known Member
Baaah, khoob bhalo
It's true, the atl's are very good classical vocal performers
It's true, the atl's are very good classical vocal performers
2chFreak
New Member
For a change, had the 70+ (age bracket) crowd, comprising of Dadus, Didas, Meshomoshois and Pishemoshois of our neighbourhood troop in today for quite an elongated listen of 'Rabindra Sangeet', Baul Geet and other traditional Bengali folk of yesteryears. I believe it is a result of the word-of-mouth from some of the younger generation which made it happen. Who am I to say no?
I have been into Western and Hindustani classical ... vocals and instruments, some rock and selected Bollywood .. predominantly .. uptil now. Did'nt try out the Bengali CDs which I possess ... only a few. Most are on LPs.
Since the TLs play the vocals with excellence, I too ended up being engrossed by the 'depth and feel' of the ones heard today. Most of the CDs belonged to the visitors ... and never once did I feel left-out due to inability to fully understand the meaning of the recitals. There was one which stood out .. inked by Nazrul .... starting with Bolobir Unnoto Momoshir .. ended up getting goosebumps ..... so, would now start collecting the till-now left-out massive .. massive Bengali offerings on CD ...
:clapping: .. :licklips: .. :yahoo: ..
hyeah: .. :clapping:
Hmm, just saw this posts. Too bad I couldn't make it.:sad:
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