Anyone here using a Floor standers only in Approx 150 Sqft for Stereo?

[elangoas]

Hello ppl,

Just wanted to know if anyone here is using a Floorstander in approx 150 Sqft room size for Stereo listening (without Sub).... If so could you please share your setup details....

Please share you feedback / experience......

 

[doors666]

i am using bs with sub in about 12x12 room. will be bringing in my fs for a few days for comparison, will let you know. btw, what do you want to know.

 

[milestoneseeker]

I am playing my Monitor 9 in an area of ~154 sq ft. I am driving them through an AVR.

 

[corElement]

I've used floorstanders in 12x12 room with and without sub.

I've found it depends on the speaker model how the room affects it's sound but I'll say this. in a 12x12 room theres too much lower midbass freqs with floorstanders and subs when listening from the rear walls. A high performance bookshelf is better for anything below 12x12.

 

[elangoas]

Ok...My room size is 14 feet wide X 11 feet length. Approx 154 Sqft....

My current setup is Marantz SR 5200 + Sonodyne stereo Power amplifier + Wharfeale diamond 9.2. When i listen to stereo source, Marantz receiver treats the speaker as Full range (Source direct)..I have toggled between source direct on & off and found the sound is rich when Source direct button is engaged....

After adding the power amplifier, Diamond's 9.2 really started to shine..Midrange is good & clear, bass is decent enough..I could feel that more bass is produced in full range & speakers are not capable of producing this... Also on some songs, i felt that it should have been a bit bright...

So i borrowed my brothers Mission M35i FS to test it.. They are big FS & rear ported with very good sensitivity 92db...Last 2 days i spent some good time listening to Mission M35i with my above combo (Receiver + stereo amplifier).. I used FLAC files (Tamil, Telugu & Hindi film songs) for my testing...

My observations are

--> I kept them 7 - 8 feet apart, with approx 2 feet on either sides (Side walls).. Sine i didn't have much length, i kept it close to the walls

--> Because of rear port, when kept close to the wall (behind the speaker), it sounded boomy...Bass wasn't clear.

--> i used the foam plugs to block the rear ports & it started sounding better (Still close to the wall)....The bass extension was better than diamond's....

--> Because of the high sensitivity of the speaker & a smaller space of 150Sqft, i couldn't push it beyond a certain level on some songs....

So my thinking is if it was a front ported & moderately sensitive FS, i would have even more better results.....

 

[milestoneseeker]

From what I have heard, front ported speakers cause a degree of diffusion (is this the right word?) due to the front facing ports. So for bass heavy stuff, it may be detrimental to your listening session.

I guess rear ported speakers will behave differently. My speakers don't have a lot of space behind them (a max of 1') with a large TV cabinet present. I never the bass to be boomy at reasonable volumes. But then I believe the Paradigm's have a tight LFE response.

 

[elangoas]

From what I have heard, front ported speakers cause a degree of diffusion (is this the right word?) due to the front facing ports. So for bass heavy stuff, it may be detrimental to your listening session.

I guess rear ported speakers will behave differently. My speakers don't have a lot of space behind them (a max of 1') with a large TV cabinet present. I never the bass to be boomy at reasonable volumes. But then I believe the Paradigm's have a tight LFE response.

Surprising that your rear ported speaker don't sound boomy when kept close to 1 feet from the wall... May be you would notice the difference if you have a more powerful amplifier...

 

[corElement]

Ok...My room size is 14 feet wide X 11 feet length. Approx 154 Sqft....

My current setup is Marantz SR 5200 + Sonodyne stereo Power amplifier + Wharfeale diamond 9.2. When i listen to stereo source, Marantz receiver treats the speaker as Full range (Source direct)..I have toggled between source direct on & off and found the sound is rich when Source direct button is engaged....

After adding the power amplifier, Diamond's 9.2 really started to shine..Midrange is good & clear, bass is decent enough..I could feel that more bass is produced in full range & speakers are not capable of producing this... Also on some songs, i felt that it should have been a bit bright...

Direct mode is always better for clarity. Most people who start off with home theatres and avr's discover the direct mode then their minds are opened to what they've been missing all this time listening to non direct mode.

So i borrowed my brothers Mission M35i FS to test it.. They are big FS & rear ported with very good sensitivity 92db...Last 2 days i spent some good time listening to Mission M35i with my above combo (Receiver + stereo amplifier).. I used FLAC files (Tamil, Telugu & Hindi film songs) for my testing...

I'm confused, what you trying to test for?

My observations are

--> Because of rear port, when kept close to the wall (behind the speaker), it sounded boomy...Bass wasn't clear.

Most budget floorstanders are overly midbass heavy, that's why a lot of people who prefer sound quality over sound quantity go for high quality bookshelves instead of average quality floorstanders.

--> i used the foam plugs to block the rear ports & it started sounding better (Still close to the wall)....The bass extension was better than diamond's....

Extension is reduced when a vent is blocked. And also you should not compare the diamond to the mission. One is a 4 driver floorstander the other is a 2 way bookshelf. The comparison is like apples to oranges.

So my thinking is if it was a front ported & moderately sensitive FS, i would have even more better results.....

Better results in what sense? I'm a little confused as to what exactly you're trying to measure/test.

Surprising that your rear ported speaker don't sound boomy when kept close to 1 feet from the wall... May be you would notice the difference if you have a more powerful amplifier...

There is no fixed rule for close or far from wall. It depends on the speaker how it interacts with a wall. Certain speakers are designed with lean lower mid range and actually sound better / need to be placed against the wall, without the wall they sound dry and dull. For those types of speakers front or rear ported does not matter.

Often manufacturers also give cues to as what kind of sound to expect from a model. For example take a look at these stock photos from manufacturers used in brochures to see how close they've placed them to the wall

If you tell us what you're trying to achieve/look for we can help maybe help direct you towards the correct direction

From what I have heard, front ported speakers cause a degree of diffusion (is this the right word?) due to the front facing ports. So for bass heavy stuff, it may be detrimental to your listening session.

I guess rear ported speakers will behave differently. My speakers don't have a lot of space behind them (a max of 1') with a large TV cabinet present. I never the bass to be boomy at reasonable volumes. But then I believe the Paradigm's have a tight LFE response.

It varies speaker to speaker in regards to front and rear ported. Each design offers something different even if it's front or rear ported.

 

[Staxxx]

I also use large floorstanders (Marten Design Django XL) in a limited space (about 150 I hazard a guess). However, I do use wall treatment at the first reflection points and also on the wall behind the speaker. I am getting terrific imaging (although not as good as when I had them about 2 metres from the back wall and one metre from each side wall) and the depth of the soundstage is certainly more than pleasurable !

 

[elangoas]

I'm confused, what you trying to test for?

I am in the verge of upgrading to a FS.. Specifically Sonodyne Sonus 2605 FS (27K).... Hence borrowed it from my brother for sometime to get a feel of how it sounds exactly in my room.

Most budget floorstanders are overly midbass heavy, that's why a lot of people who prefer sound quality over sound quantity go for high quality bookshelves instead of average quality floorstanders.

I know that you have mentioned this already in few posts.. But my budget is 27K.. I am also considering the Polk RTi A3. But the dealer gives demo with Denon receiver...

Extension is reduced when a vent is blocked. And also you should not compare the diamond to the mission. One is a 4 driver floorstander the other is a 2 way bookshelf. The comparison is like apples to oranges.

Ok...Yes.. I shouldn't be comparing..Just wanted to see how a floorstander does against a BS for a same room dimensions/conditions...

Better results in what sense? I'm a little confused as to what exactly you're trying to measure/test.

Front ported are easy placement against the wall... Less sensitive meaning, you can crank up the amplifier volume little more...So there is more bass from speaker than a higher sensitive speaker. (I am not bass head:sad

There is no fixed rule for close or far from wall. It depends on the speaker how it interacts with a wall. Certain speakers are designed with lean lower mid range and actually sound better / need to be placed against the wall, without the wall they sound dry and dull. For those types of speakers front or rear ported does not matter.

If you tell us what you're trying to achieve/look for we can help maybe help direct you towards the correct direction

I am looking for a Front ported FS at the same time i have some doubts about its performance in my room....

 

[elangoas]

I also use large floorstanders (Marten Design Django XL) in a limited space (about 150 I hazard a guess). However, I do use wall treatment at the first reflection points and also on the wall behind the speaker. I am getting terrific imaging (although not as good as when I had them about 2 metres from the back wall and one metre from each side wall) and the depth of the soundstage is certainly more than pleasurable !

Uhhhhh...That is a very big FS...

 

[doors666]

Surprising that your rear ported speaker don't sound boomy when kept close to 1 feet from the wall... May be you would notice the difference if you have a more powerful amplifier...

subwoofer design concepts say that the sub port should be clear from all sides by 2xdia of the port. Port can be internal or external. so for 3" dia port, you need a 6" clearance. 1feet is a lot of clearance. port is only active at the lowest end of the spectrum, usually below where the driver stops giving good output (almost always below 80hz), those freq are non directional anyway.

 

[elangoas]

subwoofer design concepts say that the sub port should be clear from all sides by 2xdia of the port. Port can be internal or external. so for 3" dia port, you need a 6" clearance. 1feet is a lot of clearance. port is only active at the lowest end of the spectrum, usually below where the driver stops giving good output (almost always below 80hz), those freq are non directional anyway.

Thanx for the info buddy. I assumed that rear ported speakers need more space from the rear wall....

 

[corElement]

I am in the verge of upgrading to a FS.. Specifically Sonodyne Sonus 2605 FS (27K).... Hence borrowed it from my brother for sometime to get a feel of how it sounds exactly in my room.

But my budget is 27K.. I am also considering the Polk RTi A3. But the dealer gives demo with Denon receiver..

Front ported are easy placement against the wall... Less sensitive meaning, you can crank up the amplifier volume little more...So there is more bass from speaker than a higher sensitive speaker. (I am not bass head:sad

I am looking for a Front ported FS at the same time i have some doubts about its performance in my room.

Hmm, even if a speaker is front ported the sound still changes when it's placed closer to a wall so don't rely on that measure as it's not accurate. But about the sensitivity, as you increase volume on a solid state amplifier, distortion multiplies. Driving a less sensitive speaker with an amplifier at high volume generates distortion fragments in the signal and can damage the speakers.

My personal opinion is if you want the best quality sound out of your 27k budget, get Hari Iyers new transmisison line bookshelf speakers. I've heard the sonus in Calcutta back in 2010 and found it was more of a "wall of sound" rather than an audiophile grade speaker. I've also heard the rti A3 and quite honestly found the sound quite underwhelming and overly bassy without clarity. Polk audio is notorious for using cheap $10-20 drivers in their home theater speakers.

Where as for 25k with hari's bookshelves you may not get the high quality finish as the polk but you get higher value drivers, very high quality crossover components.
I kid you not I've seen the components he uses in his crossovers and they're very high quality for their pricepoint, check this pic out to get an idea of what Hari put in his ATL's which granted are more expensive but it gives you an idea of his adherence to quality.

and above all that, a genuine scientifically approached transmission line design to produce more bass at lower volume that you seek. Not to mention countless hours of effort of Hari put into making them the perfect budget bookshelf speakers at 25k. Branded transmission line bookshelves cost a LOT of money.

Here are the specs

and here's a photo incase you havn't seen it before :

 

[doors666]

Hmm, even if a speaker is front ported the sound still changes when it's placed closer to a wall so don't rely on that kind of logic because it's not accurate.

The sound change wrt the placment could be due to many reasons, soundstage etc get affected by a lot of factors. it shouldnt get impacted due to the port though. if you wish to experiment, close the port with socks and then try. You will notice similar changes, though bass will be pretty much absent.

But about the sensitivity, you seem to have a misconception. As you increase volume on a solid state amplifier, distortion multiplies.

Driving a less sensitive speaker with an amplifier at high volume generates distortion fragments in the signal and can damage the speakers.

First, what does it have to do with solid stage, wont that happen with tubes? volume control is anyway the job of the preamp, the power amp operates at full capacity at all times, hence a lack of volume control on most power amps. If you look at the curves of amps, only at extremes does the distortion increase. otherwise its rock steady in most of its comfort zone, which is pretty much most of its range. And this is also true for the ultra cheap class Ds also (including AVRs), not only the uber expensive class As or tubes.

if all this was true, no one would buy low sensitivity speakers, every one would go for a fostex and topping or first watt and be done with it.

 

[corElement]

The sound change wrt the placment could be due to many reasons, soundstage etc get affected by a lot of factors. it shouldnt get impacted due to the port though. if you wish to experiment, close the port with socks and then try. You will notice similar changes, though bass will be pretty much absent.

Yes I agree, many factors affect it over and above the ports.

First, what does it have to do with solid stage, wont that happen with tubes?volume control is anyway the job of the preamp, the power amp operates at full capacity at all times, hence a lack of volume control on most power amps. If you look at the curves of amps, only at extremes does the distortion increase. otherwise its rock steady in most of its comfort zone, which is pretty much most of its range. And this is also true for the ultra cheap class Ds also (including AVRs), not only the uber expensive class As or tubes.
if all this was true, no one would buy low sensitivity speakers, every one would go for a fostex and topping or first watt and be done with it.

He uses a solid state amp/receiver..why wouldn't it have to do with solid state? What you say is all true but at the same time they're all technicalities that vary. Higher output gain relative to total output = greater distortion is an accepted rule of thumb. Preamp, integrated, tube solid state.. all technicalities. My point view is that it's better an amp stays in it's comfort zone instead of pushing it to an extreme. I stopped there and did not go into further technical detail because the speakers in question share only a 3db difference in sensitivity which is negligible in his context and can be ignored.

 

[elangoas]

Hmm, even if a speaker is front ported the sound still changes when it's placed closer to a wall so don't rely on that measure as it's not accurate. But about the sensitivity, as you increase volume on a solid state amplifier, distortion multiplies. Driving a less sensitive speaker with an amplifier at high volume generates distortion fragments in the signal and can damage the speakers.

My personal opinion is if you want the best quality sound out of your 27k budget, get Hari Iyers new transmisison line bookshelf speakers. I've heard the sonus in Calcutta back in 2010 and found it was more of a "wall of sound" rather than an audiophile grade speaker. I've also heard the rti A3 and quite honestly found the sound quite underwhelming and overly bassy without clarity. Polk audio is notorious for using cheap $10-20 drivers in their home theater speakers.

Where as for 25k with hari's bookshelves you may not get the high quality finish as the polk but you get higher value drivers, very high quality crossover components.
I kid you not I've seen the components he uses in his crossovers and they're very high quality for their pricepoint, check this pic out to get an idea of what Hari put in his ATL's which granted are more expensive but it gives you an idea of his adherence to quality.

and above all that, a genuine scientifically approached transmission line design to produce more bass at lower volume that you seek. Not to mention countless hours of effort of Hari put into making them the perfect budget bookshelf speakers at 25k. Branded transmission line bookshelves cost a LOT of money.

Ok.. Thanx for the info buddy....The depth of the Front ported FS is itself around 30 Cms... Around 1 foot & given that i would place it roughly 1 feet to half a feet from the wall, the port is @ a min distance of 1.5 feet from the rear wall... Isn't this more than enough for a Front ported speaker ?

Regarding the Sonodyne Sonus 2605, i have heard it many times with different combo (Receiver/Stereo amplifier) and sounded atleast good to me with my favorite film songs.....Even more for movies.....Though i am convinced about buying this, i had a small doubt if it would fit my room.... Anyways planning for a Home demo soon.....

I have fairly gone thru the Hari's ATL speaker thread review by denom, though not in detail....I sincerely appreciate Hari's efforts.....Only a person who understand/appreciate music better can build such kind of speakers......But where can i audition the speakers in Chennai ? Any FM from chennai bought them ?

BTW is there a center channel speaker in his ATL range ?

Juz out of curiosity, are these front ported (or) rear ported ?

I will consider Hari's ATL speakers if the Sonodyne Sonus 2605 doesn't suit my room conditions....

 

[elangoas]

subwoofer design concepts say that the sub port should be clear from all sides by 2xdia of the port. Port can be internal or external. so for 3" dia port, you need a 6" clearance. 1feet is a lot of clearance. port is only active at the lowest end of the spectrum, usually below where the driver stops giving good output (almost always below 80hz), those freq are non directional anyway.

Hi doors666,

Yesterday went home, made few adjustments as per your recommendation above.. The rear port dia was roughly 8 ~ 9 cm.. So i placed the speaker approx 16 ~ 18 cm from rear wall...Also i removed the port plugs (Foam plugs)... Reasonably good improvement would say....But i believe there is room for some more improvement...

 

[elangoas]

He uses a solid state amp/receiver..why wouldn't it have to do with solid state? What you say is all true but at the same time they're all technicalities that vary. Higher output gain relative to total output = greater distortion is an accepted rule of thumb. Preamp, integrated, tube solid state.. all technicalities. My point view is that it's better an amp stays in it's comfort zone instead of pushing it to an extreme. I stopped there and did not go into further technical detail because the speakers in question share only a 3db difference in sensitivity which is negligible in his context and can be ignored.

Didn't understand what a solid state power amplifier is :sad: Were you referring to the Sonodyne Stereo power amplifier ?

After connecting my stereo power amplifier to Marantz receiver, the range starts from 0 being maximum to 75 (Minimum)... @ 45 ~ 50 volume level, (<40% of the volume) it can bring even the lowest sensitive speaker (86 db for diamond 9.2's) to life.... I hope when amplifier is driven to its limits more than 80% of its volume it may disort....

 

[vjc]

I use Mission M33i floorstanders with my Denon 1911 in an area of 150 squ.ft. I keep them about 7-8 feet apart. It has a rear port . I have also filled sand in the bottom pit of the speakers to improve the bass. Due to these adjustments (distance and sand filling), I feel as if its sensitivity has come down a little bit. So I play the AVR louder for movies. But for Jazz( rock fusion, smooth jazz, trio etc) music, I enjoy the sound coming from it (I use the AVR in 'direct' mode) There is no boominess.

vjc