Are CD Player still relevant?

[Thad E Ginathom]

There is no CD versus PC fight, and I don't know why anybody is creating one. There are three mixie-type gadgets in my kitchen. The last one was bought because my wife insists that Indian mixies are designed for jobs that western ones don't do well. There is no need to fight about that!

But correcting some misconceptions is not fighting...

where is the efficiency of transport being asked here ?

No misconception there: Efficiency might be a fun thing to have a technical conversation about, but, in practical terms, unless our electricity bills are going through the roof for the lack of it, it doesn't matter

tweaking a PC maybe a one time activity but you end up using the equalizers etc.. more than you would as each genre and each recording level may be different from album to album.

That's not the case. The PC acts exactly like the CD player, and it outputs exactly the same signal to your DAC (or even to your amplifier if you use a sound card) as the CD player would. The frequency response and the relative levels (give or take an audiophile sensitivity or two) will be exactly the same.

(In fact, there is something called ReplayGain, which I have never used, that is an option to save changing volumes for different tracks/albums)

I do not dis-regard PC audio but i am of the opinion that a good PC audio costs good money much in excess of the 25k you refer to and thats my point of difference.

Pick up an old pentium machine from a junk shop or get one that someone else is throwing away, and you will have the basis of good PC audio for free or nearly free. There are zero expensive must-haves. Zero. But if you want pretty cases, and you want to experiment with power supplies and other components, then all that is available. You can even double your expence by buying two machines! How is that different to other hifi equipment?

Some of us like to experiment; some of us like to tweak. Some of us even like to talk and argue the tweaks. There are DIYers who do just the same thing in entirely analogue worlds. It is not a problem if someone does not want to do this. It is not a problem if someone does not want an audio PC.

 

[mpw]

There is no CD versus PC fight, and I don't know why anybody is creating one. There are three mixie-type gadgets in my kitchen. The last one was bought because my wife insists that Indian mixies are designed for jobs that western ones don't do well. There is no need to fight about that!

But correcting some misconceptions is not fighting...


No misconception there: Efficiency might be a fun thing to have a technical conversation about, but, in practical terms, unless our electricity bills are going through the roof for the lack of it, it doesn't matter



That's not the case. The PC acts exactly like the CD player, and it outputs exactly the same signal to your DAC (or even to your amplifier if you use a sound card) as the CD player would. The frequency response and the relative levels (give or take an audiophile sensitivity or two) will be exactly the same.

(In fact, there is something called ReplayGain, which I have never used, that is an option to save changing volumes for different tracks/albums)


Pick up an old pentium machine from a junk shop or get one that someone else is throwing away, and you will have the basis of good PC audio for free or nearly free. There are zero expensive must-haves. Zero. But if you want pretty cases, and you want to experiment with power supplies and other components, then all that is available. You can even double your expence by buying two machines! How is that different to other hifi equipment?

Some of us like to experiment; some of us like to tweak. Some of us even like to talk and argue the tweaks. There are DIYers who do just the same thing in entirely analogue worlds. It is not a problem if someone does not want to do this. It is not a problem if someone does not want an audio PC.

correcting misconceptions is where all the confusion starts. i do not consider my position as a misconception - so what are you or anyone else for that matter trying to correct ?

The last 2 lines are quite sensible in your quoted post - leave it at that. It is not a problem.

It starts becoming one when bicycles, mixies and cars are introduced and get mixed up with audiofoolia ( or music loving as many folks call it ) :lol:

regards
mpw

 

[prem]

I think Nikhil is bang on. Choose your format based on availability of good quality software

 

[ranjeetrain]

A lot of wrong notions about computer-audio being spread here. People are talking as if computer audio is some kind of rocket science. The fact is -

1. Computer audio is easier to get right than the positioning of speakers in a tricky room.
2. Computer audio is easier to get right than finding correct pair of IC and speaker cables for your amp and speakers (except in an entry-level system).
3. Computer audio is easier to get right than numerous tweaks people use e.g. fuse replacement, power cables, powerline harmonizer, power conditioner, room tweaking kits and so on.

Just because something is simple to operate doesn't mean it's better. Saying a CDP is better than computer audio is akin to saying a decades old telephone with round dials/numeric keypad is better than an iPhone/any other smartphone.

The people who find computer audio hard to set up fall in two categories. Category one is people who are genuinely not tech-savvy. Category two is people with audiophile snobbery.

Want to find out which category a person falls in? Check out the phone he uses. If he is a person who is still using a landline phone/cordless/walkie-talkie kind of device or a basic cellphone he is into category one. If he owns an expensive smartphone just because he has money, but still only uses simplest of features (make call/recieve call/read message/recieve message) he is still category one, genuinely old-tech people.

But if a person who was using a phone 3 decades ago, moved to the cellphone as soon as it appeared on the market, and today owns the latest and greatest smartphone and makes use of it's various features, he is category two. Because a CDP to computer audio no more complicated than a telephone device from 3 decades ago to latest smartphones.


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I also want to touch upon the topic covered earlier by me and expanded upon by Dheeraj. The point got lost in number arguments. The point wasn't necessarily a INR 125k CDP is better than a INR 400k CDP. That would be too much of a wishful thinking. The point was - at each price point, a computer transport + DAC combo beats an equivalent CD player.

Wanna play at INR 400k level? Bring on the best CDP you can have for INR 400k and I will put together a computer based playback system for lesser than that. If the computer playback doesn't beat the crap out of the CDP I'll quit computer audio and become an advocate of CDPs Anyone is welcome to reach out to me privately or publicly here, everyone is invited!


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Edit: In the hindsight, it seems "Let's talk digital" is a really really required thread here

 

[Ambio]

Your point is that people who dont listen to music seriously cant hear differences between audio components? Similarly I dont notice a difference between blu ray and DVDs.

What does this have to do with the relevance of CD players? People who like listening to music on CDs use them. Others dont.

The point is as Nikhil alluded earlier - buy what's relevant to you. The sound quality difference got nothing to do whether to go CDP or PC. They are indistinguishable when setup correctly.

 

[jai1611]

The point is as Nikhil alluded earlier - buy what's relevant to you. The sound quality difference got nothing to do whether to go CDP or PC. They are indistinguishable when setup correctly.

I dont understand what the article you linked to has to do with that. As per that, all DACs from US$2 to US$2000 sound the same and differ only in convenience, features

 

[prem]

Ranjeetrain, let the buyer/listener decide. Just because i listen to vinyl doesn't make vinyl the best thing in the world. It would be stupid of me to go and say that. Ditto with other formats. One can't have an extreme view point on a format.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

A lot of wrong notions about computer-audio being spread here. People are talking as if computer audio is some kind of rocket science.

Absolutely. Nor is it expensive. In fact computers are one of the ways in which good sound is (for past twenty years or more) being available to people without a great deal of money.

That's all good, isn't it?

 

[jai1611]

That would be too much of a wishful thinking. The point was - at each price point, a computer transport + DAC combo beats an equivalent CD player.

Thats probably true now, at least at any kind of reasonable budget. It was a lot harder a few years back, when async USB interfaces were relatively rare.

I still use my CD spinner more than the music PC though

 

[dheerajin]

Edit: In the hindsight, it seems "Let's talk digital" is a really really required thread here

Yes ranjeet , it is quiet needed.
People dont understand it correctly rather they are taking it as a fight against CDP.

 

[Naturelover]

Well. good reason to continue where you left off....

Edit: In the hindsight, it seems "Let's talk digital" is a really really required thread here

 

[Ambio]

Wanna play at INR 400k level? Bring on the best CDP you can have for INR 400k and I will put together a computer based playback system for lesser than that. If the computer playback doesn't beat the crap out of the CDP I'll quit computer audio and become an advocate of CDPs Anyone is welcome to reach out to me privately or publicly here, everyone is invited!


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Edit: In the hindsight, it seems "Let's talk digital" is a really really required thread here

Since the thread started I am listening JRiver via Mytek. To tell the truth, there could be some difference which I was conscious of on the first day and after that completely forgotten about it and was just enjoying the music until your post.

Would you agree if the test procedures as follows:-

1) Play 10 different tracks form different CD with the orginal 16 bit 44.1Khz recording.

2) The same ripped to PC.

3) a third person will play the track randomly. He should keep a record.

4) the participant would decide the best sound. and identify the medium.

4) compare the results.

What's your opinion please?

 

[prem]

Hi dheerajin

The problem here in this forum is to prove a format is superior people start deriding other formats. Thats simply not acceptable.

I have heard computer audio ranging from a lakh to 20 lakhs. It has a lot of conveniences but to my ears it just doesnt get the timing right. To me timing is very very important. I have been bought up in a house where i have had legends like M S Subalaxmi, Lalgudi Jayaram and the like performing at my house along with my dad. So i have grown up listening to a lot of live unamplified music. In any classical music timing is very very critical.

With very high end transport + dac, i dont find issues of timing. To my ears timing is spot on in vinyl. Now thats me. If someones ears cant pick up the timing cues, then computer audio is great. So a format really boils down to what one values in ones music. Needless to say vinyl is noisier with probably less separation. But i am willing to overlook them. To someone else the vinyl noise could be a major deterrent to the enjoyment of the music. So obviously that person will go with digital.

At the end of the day, every format has its pros and cons. One needs to evaluate them and figure out what works for them.

 

[himadri]

In the Indian scenario, Indian music is available mostly in CD format. So if you are a listener of Indian Classical, Bollywood, etc the CD is the preferred format. Hi res digital audio is almost non-existent as far as I know. It also goes that English Audio CDs are widely available so again this validates the CD player.

If you listen primarily to Western music then a PC Transport + DAC is a viable option simply based on the huge amount of material available in digital formats. With online content providers, you have access to very high quality material. .

Thanks Nikhil , I had queried about the software part far up ahead in the thread . Just a clarification- by western do you mean western classical downloads?What about the availability of hi res jazz and rock downloads?
cheers

 

[prem]

Hi Ambio

Why are you hell bent trying to force your opinion on others? Take it easy. People have their own ears and can decide whats good for them.

 

[Ambio]

Hi Ambio

Why are you hell bent trying to force your opinion on others? Take it easy. People have their own ears and can decide whats good for them.

People have the capacity to think for themselves and decide whether to suffer neurosis or enjoy music by buying what's relevant based on science.

 

[dheerajin]

Prem..true, opinions should not be forced and posts should be direct to the topic rather than testing methods and challenging others to prove something..

 

[coaltrain]

Ranjeetrain, let the buyer/listener decide. Just because i listen to vinyl doesn't make vinyl the best thing in the world. It would be stupid of me to go and say that. Ditto with other formats. One can't have an extreme view point on a format.

^^ apparently, you can.

i would like to extend my profound thanks to all you music pc gurus for showing me the light. it is, indeed, a humbling experience to finally perceive one's true self: in my case, as a snobbish audiophile luddite.

i stand in awe of your towering intellect and deep humility. and, i am eternally grateful for your overwhelming generosity in sharing your secrets to audio nirvana.

now, if you'll excuse me, i need to burn my cdp and repent for my past sonic sins.

 

[prem]

Thanks dheerajin. It would have been really nice if people had spelt out what is it that they liked in the sound quality of computer audio over a cdp or vice versa. That would have given a potential buyer a lot of insights to help him evaluate the two formats and take a call. Right through this thread i have not seen any pointers toward that

 

[ranjeetrain]

Hi Prem, you have read/understood something wrong.

How can I prevent people from buying what they want? If an adult takes a conscious decision to buy something from his legally earned money, it's his decision, and such a decision can't be questioned.

My first post in the thread was a direct answer to a simple question - "Are CD players still relevant"? And I did throw my 2 paise on that.

But since then a lot more dimensions have been added to this discussion; not necessarily by you or I. This is my strong belief that everyone is just flowing with the thread adding their thoughts as it occurs to them. I believe no one is trying to impose his opinion on others. In fact it is absolutely not possible to change other's decision. We are talking about CDPs and transports costing INR 400-500k each. As a matter of fact, even someone in the market for a INR 50k CDP does his complete research before committing to a product. In such a case assuming that you can influence the decision making of a buyer in the market for INR 400k CDP/Transport is simply too much.

I don't understand what made you say "Just because i listen to vinyl doesn't make vinyl the best thing in the world. It would be stupid of me to go and say that." I don't think I claimed computer playback to be the best. If you have concluded that from my posts, you are reading me wrong.

Yes, I do stand my ground that unless you break into ultra high-end territory you can't beat computer playback with an equally priced CDP. I welcome your thoughts on this.