Audio Lounge - London

I believe Transfer Pricing is the term used for the above method....

I believe transfer pricing is for goods transferred between the same financial entity ie intra company
This would be a sale but the Cost of Sale is at the distributor price which is 50-60% of the MRP usually including freight. and hence duty would be at that price

But again the dealer is here is a business and this is his income. so he will be looking at maximising this and his only plays are the best option as per below
1. Reduce margin hoping for high volumes
2. High margin despite low volumes

since in our market option 1 does not appear to be feasible for these products, they are choosing option 2.
I am assuming they are willling to live with the risk for a few importing directly !

just my take on the same ;)
 
I think India is a trend obsessed nation. I am currently in UK. I realized people here pursue what they like irrespective of what mainstream trends dictate. The population is much less but people are crazy about what they like. Cars or golf or audio gear or whatever. And everyone respects that. Hence a market exists.

There are a lot of folks in India who like music but that market is eaten up whole by the HT products because that is what the rest of the family wants or trend dictates. So music is played through HT gear in India. Source is free downloaded mp3. I know at least a dozen families who at one point in time owned two channel gear ( the classics) but now they all have some HTIB or something silly.
 
There is no truth more bitter than that. We are a nation of sheeps, we just follow the trend.

this is sooooo true....

I was buying the Panasonic GH3, every review, every international Indie film maker swears by it.... but the guys here... they can't look beyond the usual (more expensive, less expressive) suspects... !

I don't care 2 hoots! Did what i had to... in the past few months, have converted 2 of the stereotypes! LOL!
 
There is no truth more bitter than that. We are a nation of sheeps, we just follow the trend.

Not so true & also so true in all most cases. Since I started AP my passion was and will always be 2-channel and not HT. My ratio even today is 90% Stereo & 10% HT.

We are a very few bunch of dedicated Hi-End dealers who concentrate on Stereo rather than HT.

Today HT is like is crazy, even the electricians are bloody doing home theatres!

As Vinny mentioned our nation is a movie fantatic nation and that is the way it will be. Period. Love live 2-channel.

Hats off to Ajay Shirke for starting Audio Lounge in London! He knows what he is doing. Doing the same here in India would be financially unviable! Funny Cadence is not on the product list . MUst be included. Hope he opens more stores all over the world.
 
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I think we are being a bit harsh on ourselves. I'm going to switch to a deeper level (for a moment) and make a comment that is needed to better understand the situation here in India.

In a very fundamental sense people in the West have an "abundance mentality" i.e. basic needs are met. In contrast we here tend to have what can be called a "scarcity mentality" i.e. resources are scarce or basic needs are not met. This severely affects the way we think about spending our money, etc. This is not so much about money but a mentality.

As we mature as a nation many of these things will change. With maturity (and resources) quality will start getting a hand up.

... ok back to audio now!
 
I beg to disagree....when we take the percentage of rich people in our country through the ages, the number will always be more/equal to the total population of most of the developed countries..... So the rich have always been here which is the target market for good audio...before the advent of HT systems, people in India did have stereo systems - turntables and gramaphones....

With HT becoming the TREND, almost everyone goes for a high end HT system and they spend a good amount of money on HT and stereo has taken a backseat...I will also attribute this to the decline in the quality of music which is more of noise nowadays and therefore could be a reason why people spend on HT than on stereo...

But as a race/country, we do run after the latest trends as we are conscious of what our neighbours/friends/family think about us....
 
I think we are being a bit harsh on ourselves.

I think so too, especially in the comparison with other countries, where there is probably a similar proportion of HT installations to stereo, and among the HT, a similar proportion of out-of-the-box buys to those seriously built from components.

If London was full of people buying high-end stereo, it would be full of shops selling it. Although, as a one-time resident and buyer of mid-end (can middle be an end? :eek:) equipment, I can say that, yes, London is a much, much better place to shop for it.

Look at UK's record-sales-per-sq-ft box shifters, Richer Sounds. Their cry used to be that they sold only stereo separates, not midi/lifestyle/whatever, not TVs, and certainly not washing machines. I'm still on their mailing list, and every mail I get from them is full of TVs and HT, and they bought a household goods chain so, yes, they sell washing machines.

Plenty of sheep buying plenty of mass-market products there!
 
Square wave's comment about India being trend obsesses really resonated with me at one level. I tens to think of it more as the developed world tends to follow their hobbies and recreational pursuits with a lot more passion and focus. This is a lot less in India. Hence focused user communities and niche product offerings are a lot more prevalent and commercially viable in the developed countries.

However I posit that this shallowness is only accentuated in India because of lack of access, lack of community, lack of awareness, among other things. At least that has been my perception on this matter after living in the US for a few years. Otherwise, people are people. For example, just by being here, I was able to attend high end audio shows without even traveling to another city, something that is almost impossible in India.

In fact, I am often taken aback at how knowledgeable and how passionate some of the members are in this community, despite having such little access and other bureaucratic hurdles like import related nonsense.

The only thing that I wish would happen more is the HiFi dealers playing more of a role in increasing awareness, educating their potential client base, helping build the user community etc. Not saying it doesn't happen - just wish it happened more. It is also worthwhile acknowledging how tough the industry is because of slow moving inventory etc. And not too much of a surprise that it too evolved more like other so called gentlemanly pursuits like golfing and gymkhanas etc. However it should not be like this. Nor things like golfing or gymkhanas.

However I often feel that many people buying HT stuff do so not because they cannot afford entry level or even mid fi equipment, just because they have never ever heard a decent sounding setup. Heck a lot of the commercial stereo equipment even has better WAF than similarly priced HT stuff.

Sorry for the rambling post. One thought led to another.
 
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As someone who has been in Hifi Forums in india since 2003 .and while I was still living abroad, i must say already the knowledge level and interest today is maybe around 100 fold of what was there earlier !
Hifi discussions was stuck at Sonodyne and NAD.

today we have a vibrant DIY community, mods, talks of several brands and also the mandatory " Cables" flareups :eek:hyeah:

so it is increasing

Having lived in europe the US and also in Singapore i must say singapore (and maybe HK) folks are the most advanced as a group on hifi knowledge ..followed by most european nations. specifically Germany/Swiss and perhaps france.

Most US folks are still into the HT area and not really too much in Hifi jsut that since they are more oriented towards credit and spending they do invest in Hifi just like they would in a car. In india we are more savings oriented so spending is with high caution. it is only now that we even see the more exotic bicycles/skates etc etc being available whch are being pursued as a hobby

BTW One hobby which was prevalent in india was photography..and if you visit those forums you can see how vibrant a community that is with respect to gear and technique etc etc

So i believe it is a slow process but we will get there

Expecting dealers to do that is perhaps too much of an expectation..most are businessmen and earn a living of this so their view could be different
 
I think we are being a bit harsh on ourselves.

As we should be!

I have to admit that my comment was more on a broader level than HT vs stereo hangups or any such Hifi related matter. My feeling is that - we as a nation are too much into stereotypes. Granted, every nation has plentiful of them. But we Indians are stuck at more of these than any other (barring Africa, middle east and other muslim dominated countries).

I like to think of ourselves as a nation of smart people limited by stereotypes; a nation that could be light years ahead on all parameteres of life, only if we could start thinking out of the box. We live a life which is by and large defined by set standards and notions which play a huge role in our day-to-day decision making.
 
Compare this hobby with photography. There is actually peer pressure in this country (at least in cities) to buy an SLR when you have enough money. So they all buy it. Most folks who buy it because it is trendy keep it their cupboard after a while and buy a decent point and shoot because it is more convenient. They do not have the patience to pursue the finer nuances of photography which is possible only with an SLR.

The reason - Photography as a hobby is well entrenched in India and we have a large demographic who actually purse it. So it has become trendy for everyone to own an SLR.

For some reason, there arent a large number of people who pursue audio as a hobby. Hence there is peer pressure from the rest of the family and peers not to own one. And they all succumb.

To some extent, the reason behind all this are the brands themselves how they conduct themselves lack of promotion, lack of awareness etc.
 
Expecting dealers to do that is perhaps too much of an expectation..most are businessmen and earn a living of this so their view could be different

I have a slightly different viewpoint on this. The nature of business for niche categories and niche hobbies is very different from a more mass market category. These niche markets are more community driven and the communities need to be nurtured and grown. But growth will only come through education and awareness - someone has to drum up enthusiasm. I only say the onus is on the business people because they are the ones that have a true vested interested of making more money if more people buy the products.

Otherwise, it will be left solely to the enthusiasts - nothing wrong with that - and this forum itself is a good example of that. And I'm not even saying that dealers are not active in this forum for example. However, if you compare this field to say, other enthusiast driven market categories - say, fine wines, watches, golf, etc. - I notice that the dealers and vendors do a lot in terms of spreading awareness through workshops, promotions, and other means.

Honestly, I'm not an expert in marketing or any of this - just some lay person observations. Maybe, there's much less money in this field compared to others. Or some other valid reason.
 
Completely agree....the audio dealers are simply not making any effort or investment but keep crying over lack of sales...everybody in the related industries as mentioned above are making a huge effort in reaching out to the customers and making decent investments which are clearly showing results....

Our audio dealers simply do not make any effort and hope customers come to them and buy whatever the dealer suggests.....


I have a slightly different viewpoint on this. The nature of business for niche categories and niche hobbies is very different from a more mass market category. These niche markets are more community driven and the communities need to be nurtured and grown. But growth will only come through education and awareness - someone has to drum up enthusiasm. I only say the onus is on the business people because they are the ones that have a true vested interested of making more money if more people buy the products.

Otherwise, it will be left solely to the enthusiasts - nothing wrong with that - and this forum itself is a good example of that. And I'm not even saying that dealers are not active in this forum for example. However, if you compare this field to say, other enthusiast driven market categories - say, fine wines, watches, golf, etc. - I notice that the dealers and vendors do a lot in terms of spreading awareness through workshops, promotions, and other means.

Honestly, I'm not an expert in marketing or any of this - just some lay person observations. Maybe, there's much less money in this field compared to others. Or some other valid reason.
 
i really dont know in which industry dealers make efforts for sales..it is usually the company which owns the brand which markets and sells.

Dealers are very rarely "married" to a brand.

Its not that they should not do it..but very rarely have i seen them doing it in any industry
 
Gentlemen - are we assuming that D & D's are 'Lazy' ?
Basically, if we on the one hand say that the D & D's are not making an effort - we are implying that they are not interested in sales...
Actually, I have seen some parts of the coin from the 'other side' & I can tell you - they are most interested & hard working fellows.
When there is a project on hand - they really toil & work on getting the contract & there after its execution is of primary importance to them...
They know that 'projects' is where the money is & therefore they run after that.
In the case of 2 channel audio - the problem, I [personally] feel is with 'us';
We come into the room with 1/2 baked ideas & pre-conceived notions & the D & D is not able to 'execute' what he wants to do....
It is like we going to a Doctor & googling the symptoms & drugs that can work & then trying to 2nd guess the doctor at each step of the way....
Basically, we are not prepared / ready to listen & execute what the D & D has to say or wants to do for us.....
How ever inexperienced we feel the D & D is - over the years - just by the number of systems that have passed through their hands / shop floor - they are well exposed & have heard & installed a lot of audio set ups & they have lots of practice solutions to problems that would elude us...

To give you a short story - several years back @ a Manufacturer Meet - I happened to interact with a few South East Asian D & D's & what ever they had to say - was most 'intently' absorbed by the European Manufacturers - cause those 'comments' were from the 'shop floor' & they were opinions that the Manufacturers would never be exposed to....

Basically, D & D 's have a lot to offer & contribute - it is just that we do not give them a chance - we should try and we will all be surprised as to what the results are...
 
Bhagwan, you are very knowledgeable and experienced in this field, so I present to you only a layman's opinion. In my opinion, the D&Ds are most certainly not being lazy, but perhaps not innovative for lack of a better word?

Take the art world for example. A niche world where the price of entry is often high - high enough that it is unaffordable for a normal salaried person (aka middle class). Actually, scratch that since it is no longer true due to the dramatic increase in wages. Art is now affordable to many, but the many will still not buy it because of mentality reasons, but in some cases, because of lack of access and awareness.

This aspect is being completely missed by the hifi world. In fact, you can call it a missed opportunity. To continue with the analogy, there are no equivalents of art exhibitions, no avenues where ill informed enthusiasts can really experience good sound that literally opens their mind and their ears, or can learn and unlearn more about the field. The few demo opportunities that one has in a typicaly hifi shop hardly scratches the surface, and even then many times one has to navigate other issues such as needing to take prior appointments, lack of time and patience on the dealer's side, snob factor depending on how humble one's budget is, etc.

Perhaps, you are right. Normal people are full of ego and pre-conceived notions too, and don't want to learn. I don't pretend to know the answer. But if Jehangir art gallery and many others can host art exhibitions routinely, with free walk-ins, why can't the audio world do similar activities? After all, most audio equipment actually costs far more than average paintings (not by the big names though).

For the record, by dealers, I mean all commercial parties involved that make a profit from this. And that includes manufacturers or distributors or dealers.
 
Yes, I completely second what Asliarun said. There is a lot of magic in 2 channel audio. The right kind of exposure and promotion will go a long way in encouraging people to buy and increase volume of sales which will eventually bring prices down.

How many times have you seen an ad for a state of the art two channel music system in any half decent magazine ? But you see SLR camera, large TV and big car ads all over the place.

How many times have you seen a move scene where you see state of the art two channel music systems ? Hardly any !

There is a slight snob mentality in the mainstream high fidelity scene that needs to change. This is definitely a need of the hour or most people will keep away from it. The brands can do a lot of things to change how high fidelity is perceived by the music loving public.

There are a lot of nice dealers whom I know who take a lot of pride in what they do and do their bit. But the public does not really respond in kind. For this to change, the brands need to do their job well. After all, marketing and promotion is their domain.
 
What can a dealer with a shop on the street do? He can wait for people to walk in the door. He can encourage them by taking small press adverts (he probably does not have the budget for larger ones, unless they are funded by manufactures). He can make sure that he has an attractive and informative web presence that is easily found by google.

On top of that, he can strive to keep existing customers and get more by word of mouth. To do this, there has to be good products, good and transparent pricing, and good after-sales service.

Couldn't I be talking about any business there? I am sure we have enough business people among our members to see that this all only obvious. Of course, even though it may be obvious, not all will attempt these things, and not all will succeed.

Lets look at an additional instance where hifi dealers have promoted themselves, their products and helped to spread information about their products. Look at sponsorship and presence at HiFiVision meetups! It is a very fine example of the best sort of marketing and promotion by dealers, at the sharp end of the business. It is also a very long-term-view form of promotion. I doubt that many sales happen immediately, but there several dozen potential buyers who will remember the presence of those guys for years. When we see dealers and distributors doing this, we cannot say they are doing nothing!
 
Bhagwan, you are very knowledgeable and experienced in this field, so I present to you only a layman's opinion. In my opinion, the D&Ds are most certainly not being lazy, but perhaps not innovative for lack of a better word?

Take the art world for example. A niche world where the price of entry is often high - high enough that it is unaffordable for a normal salaried person (aka middle class). Actually, scratch that since it is no longer true due to the dramatic increase in wages. Art is now affordable to many, but the many will still not buy it because of mentality reasons, but in some cases, because of lack of access and awareness.

This aspect is being completely missed by the hifi world. In fact, you can call it a missed opportunity. To continue with the analogy, there are no equivalents of art exhibitions, no avenues where ill informed enthusiasts can really experience good sound that literally opens their mind and their ears, or can learn and unlearn more about the field. The few demo opportunities that one has in a typicaly hifi shop hardly scratches the surface, and even then many times one has to navigate other issues such as needing to take prior appointments, lack of time and patience on the dealer's side, snob factor depending on how humble one's budget is, etc.

Perhaps, you are right. Normal people are full of ego and pre-conceived notions too, and don't want to learn. I don't pretend to know the answer. But if Jehangir art gallery and many others can host art exhibitions routinely, with free walk-ins, why can't the audio world do similar activities? After all, most audio equipment actually costs far more than average paintings (not by the big names though).

For the record, by dealers, I mean all commercial parties involved that make a profit from this. And that includes manufacturers or distributors or dealers.

Sir,
I cannot comment on Art - please do excuse me - I do not have any idea about that;
However, we do have a few 'well appointed' audio showrooms in India.
Some pics are :-

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Uploaded with ImageShack.com

These are in India.

All persons are 'free' [maybe after an appointment] to go and visit for a demo etc.

There are several more - just have not listed them here.
 
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