Audiophile streamer (improving source)

With that logic we'd all have the same systems. There's no one way to get to any one point, Therein lies the beauty of our hobby.
I agree with you. But in case of Digital, the technology is evolving so fast that in 6 /12 months you are obsolete. Like if you buy a SOtM 200, after 6 months add a power supply , than add a high end switch of SOtM after another 6 month, than add a master clock . Mind you every addition is costly affair. So by the time you do all this you have another device in market which will have better sound without having so many additions. Sonore Optical Rendu @1290$ will out perform yesterday years SOtM ultra Neo.
That’s what I mean. Of course if some one has ample money to enjoy this hobby this way than he is welcome to do that. This I am saying out of 35 years of experience. I don’t mean to hurt anyone. And I am sorry if I did that.
 
NUC you may get good spec but it has fan, , better will be a headless system with audio Linux I guess.
Hello
Best would be to go for hdplex fanless chassis & assemble a server with handpicked components.
You don't have to spend much on processor coz your dac only supports 192/24 & no dsd. So, oversampling wouldn't be an issue.

I am using audiolinux/gentooplayer for Rpi4b 4gb on my modded Metrum amber & sounds so much better than stock ropieee/rpi3b. The signal is fed into amber via Uptone audio etherregen(farad super3 Lps) clocked by an external 10mhz master clock.
My plans of assembling a dedicated music server are now on hold due to covid as all hdplex inventory ships from Shanghai.

I see you are in US. There sky is the limit. DIY server can be assembled at very reasonable costs bettering other absurdly priced option. Also, the preowned market (electronic components) has some amazing deals in US.

If you are open to DIY solution then I would recommend the following components:

1. HDPLEX H3 V3 fanless PC chassis
2. HDPLEX fanless 400w LPS with modular etc output( you have many choices like uptone audio, Paul Hynes etc)
3. Motherboard which supports the chassis, adequate RAM slots, processor, ssd & pcie slots.
4. Diff storage(nvme ssd) for OS & storage.
5. Jcat clocked USB card/network card
6. Gentooplayer server(free)
This way you could directly connect to USB in /ethernet in on devialet 120.

If your 120 had AES/ i2s input I would have advised Singxer SU2 (kitsune edition) DDC with option for addition of 10mhz external master clock(mutec/cybershaft/ppastudio etc) . This way you could bypass internal devialet streamer stage & directly feed a very high quality clocked signal directly to your PCM1792 dac.

Best of luck!
 
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I also use Tidal for streaming from laptop and connected to DAC using ethernet.

Is it possible that even though it is tidal from laptop, windows is altering the data before sending ? Since you are using Devialet with Ethernet or Air, the software player+ OS combo seems the potential problem.
In that case, if you try from an apple laptop, i feel the sound will be different compared to windows.
Normally whatever we play on windows, it alters the data. Unless we tweak many settings and force windows to bypass.
 
Hello
Best would be to go for hdplex fanless chassis & assemble a server with handpicked components.
You don't have to spend much on processor coz your dac only supports 192/24 & no dsd. So, oversampling wouldn't be an issue.

I am using audiolinux/gentooplayer for Rpi4b 4gb on my modded Metrum amber & sounds so much better than stock ropieee/rpi3b. The signal is fed into amber via Uptone audio etherregen(farad super3 Lps) clocked by an external 10mhz master clock.
My plans of assembling a dedicated music server are now on hold due to covid as all hdplex inventory ships from Shanghai.

I see you are in US. There sky is the limit. DIY server can be assembled at very reasonable costs bettering other absurdly priced option. Also, the preowned market (electronic components) has some amazing deals in US.

If you are open to DIY solution then I would recommend the following components:

1. HDPLEX H3 V3 fanless PC chassis
2. HDPLEX fanless 400w LPS with modular etc output( you have many choices like uptone audio, Paul Hynes etc)
3. Motherboard which supports the chassis, adequate RAM slots, processor, ssd & pcie slots.
4. Diff storage(nvme ssd) for OS & storage.
5. Jcat clocked USB card/network card
6. Gentooplayer server(free)
This way you could directly connect to USB in /ethernet in on devialet 120.

If your 120 had AES/ i2s input I would have advised Singxer SU2 (kitsune edition) DDC with option for addition of 10mhz external master clock(mutec/cybershaft/ppastudio etc) . This way you could bypass internal devialet streamer stage & directly feed a very high quality clocked signal directly to your PCM1792 dac.

Best of luck!

Hello lithiumnk,

Thanks a lot for your DIY suggestion and providing details. I am really keen in going in this routs but I never did
this before. I know building a system like this add lot of flexibility and provide lot of upgrade options for future.
If it is simple connection between parts I can try but not sure if it is that simple.

I may even change Devialet bit later but before that I want to know what is the best I can get from it.

My model is entry version and hence doesnt have balanced option.
I do heard that adding a clock which can control your dac and source will improve the quality a lot.

I am just wondering how complicated is digital.

Thanks
Renjith


Is it possible that even though it is tidal from laptop, windows is altering the data before sending ? Since you are using Devialet with Ethernet or Air, the software player+ OS combo seems the potential problem.
In that case, if you try from an apple laptop, i feel the sound will be different compared to windows.
Normally whatever we play on windows, it alters the data. Unless we tweak many settings and force windows to bypass.

Amit,

I dont have a mac system but do do have ipad. I know it wont help.
People say better performance with dedicated server like Nucleus or sonic transporter compared to mac mini.

Thanks
Renjith
 
Hi,

I would suggest raspberry Pi as the streamer, with picoreplayer software and LMS server running on another PI 4, it will beat Roon any day, will have Spotify, tidal, upnp support, you name it. :). Let me know if need help on setting up.
 
Hello lithiumnk,

Thanks a lot for your DIY suggestion and providing details. I am really keen in going in this routs but I never did
this before. I know building a system like this add lot of flexibility and provide lot of upgrade options for future.
If it is simple connection between parts I can try but not sure if it is that simple.

I may even change Devialet bit later but before that I want to know what is the best I can get from it.

My model is entry version and hence doesnt have balanced option.
I do heard that adding a clock which can control your dac and source will improve the quality a lot.

I am just wondering how complicated is digital.

Thanks
Renjith
Assembling hdplex fanless pc is quite easy.
Building a Fully Silent Fanless PC - HDPlex H3
You could look into dedicated dac & amp. Many brands offer 30 day return policy. There are endless options at various price points.
 
Hi renjith,
How r u doing. Hope you were able to implement the Fibre optic cable with switches. My system has really improve A LOT.
I am really excited about it. I got shorter 24awg OFC LAN8 cables and it made a difference too.
I never heard my system sounding so good. My bookshelf speakers are sounding like floor standers. Big/huge sound.
Yesterday my receptionist called me to say people are complaining in another Tower( other building next to mine).
It’s so good that I am tempted to increase gain. Even at higher volume levers it is very smooth and listenable. Sound becomes bigger not so much louder.
Do let me know your experience.
 
Do you hear big difference between NUC and nucleus? I understand internal in a NUC may create trouble.
I do see some people using linear power supply for nucleus + and special purpose dc cables with Nucleus plus.
Nucleus is only I3 processor and if you see internal pictures other than heat fins I dont see anythings special in that. I am not sure if I am correct.
Does it have a better clock?

Yes, a Nucleus is just a fanless NUC with a nice passive cooling design (heat sink) and some niceties like Control4 automation integration.

I look at it this way; You can make coffee at home with some small investments in equipment and time but you may rather choose to get yours from your local speciality cafe. Some like the whole process of making their own and some can't be bothered with the trouble of it. Roon has given us different ways to enjoy their product, whichever way we like.

Intel NUC is just another mini PC with very weak specs, wouldn't you be better off using a PC/ Laptop with Windows/Linux dual boot?

While that works, the whole idea behind a ROCK/NUC setup is to not have any other software processes run on it and to have its resources available for one primary application: Roon

I agree with you. But in case of Digital, the technology is evolving so fast that in 6 /12 months you are obsolete. Like if you buy a SOtM 200, after 6 months add a power supply , than add a high end switch of SOtM after another 6 month, than add a master clock . Mind you every addition is costly affair. So by the time you do all this you have another device in market which will have better sound without having so many additions. Sonore Optical Rendu @1290$ will out perform yesterday years SOtM ultra Neo.
That’s what I mean. Of course if some one has ample money to enjoy this hobby this way than he is welcome to do that. This I am saying out of 35 years of experience. I don’t mean to hurt anyone. And I am sorry if I did that.

No offence taken Sir. We are merely discussing and sharing our viewpoints which are in turn a messy sum of our subjective experiences and our objective thoughts. The fun is in entertaining another school of thought and allowing the possibility of that also being correct for someone else.

Yes, Digital is evolving. But there are people using DACs bought 5 years ago with a new network bridge and their DAC delivers a new level of performance previously unknown to them. Most devices are updated often and new features and functionality are updated every now and then. But I like the fact that the old DAC is still relevant and usable today.

Hello
Best would be to go for hdplex fanless chassis & assemble a server with handpicked components.
You don't have to spend much on processor coz your dac only supports 192/24 & no dsd. So, oversampling wouldn't be an issue.

I am using audiolinux/gentooplayer for Rpi4b 4gb on my modded Metrum amber & sounds so much better than stock ropieee/rpi3b. The signal is fed into amber via Uptone audio etherregen(farad super3 Lps) clocked by an external 10mhz master clock.
My plans of assembling a dedicated music server are now on hold due to covid as all hdplex inventory ships from Shanghai.

I see you are in US. There sky is the limit. DIY server can be assembled at very reasonable costs bettering other absurdly priced option. Also, the preowned market (electronic components) has some amazing deals in US.

If you are open to DIY solution then I would recommend the following components:

1. HDPLEX H3 V3 fanless PC chassis
2. HDPLEX fanless 400w LPS with modular etc output( you have many choices like uptone audio, Paul Hynes etc)
3. Motherboard which supports the chassis, adequate RAM slots, processor, ssd & pcie slots.
4. Diff storage(nvme ssd) for OS & storage.
5. Jcat clocked USB card/network card
6. Gentooplayer server(free)
This way you could directly connect to USB in /ethernet in on devialet 120.

If your 120 had AES/ i2s input I would have advised Singxer SU2 (kitsune edition) DDC with option for addition of 10mhz external master clock(mutec/cybershaft/ppastudio etc) . This way you could bypass internal devialet streamer stage & directly feed a very high quality clocked signal directly to your PCM1792 dac.

Best of luck!

Man, You're talking about my dream DIY setup. This is pretty much what I'd do for a budget/complexity no object build.
 
Hi renjith,
How r u doing. Hope you were able to implement the Fibre optic cable with switches. My system has really improve A LOT.
I am really excited about it. I got shorter 24awg OFC LAN8 cables and it made a difference too.
I never heard my system sounding so good. My bookshelf speakers are sounding like floor standers. Big/huge sound.
Yesterday my receptionist called me to say people are complaining in another Tower( other building next to mine).
It’s so good that I am tempted to increase gain. Even at higher volume levers it is very smooth and listenable. Sound becomes bigger not so much louder.
Do let me know your experience.

Hello sir,

I also got good improvement with fiber optic cable and SFP module. In my case I need two pair one for laptop and another at Devialet or amp/dac side. Overall sound becomes more soft and less grainy. I am using 6 inch ethernet cable from mono price ( Cat6e)
I can increase the volume more because overall the sound become soft. Only thing which I didnt like is the need of four power outlet for four sfp module.
I got tied up with work and couldn't listen like before but overall I am happy with the change. I am thinking about building/getting a good server as a next step.

Thanks
Renjith

This is a dream for me as well.
Right now all the computer components are out of stock or overpriced due to ch.in.a thing. So everything is on hold.

Even in US, I was looking for HD Plex 400W linear power supply and it is out of stock. I contacted their support team and they said they are coming with 500W version in October but again it is expensive and will be around 850$. Then motherboard, processor, ram, chassy, Jcat card . So it can go up to 2000$ or more but I guess it will be a really good one.
 
Yes, a Nucleus is just a fanless NUC with a nice passive cooling design (heat sink) and some niceties like Control4 automation integration.

I look at it this way; You can make coffee at home with some small investments in equipment and time but you may rather choose to get yours from your local speciality cafe. Some like the whole process of making their own and some can't be bothered with the trouble of it. Roon has given us different ways to enjoy their product, whichever way we like.
I agree Roon is best option specially at this price. You can only use SSD and no fans , specially designed for Audio with audio grade parts. Fans etc will only creat distortion.
Processor i3 is no issue at all , good enough to handle huge library and highest resolution track.

Hello sir,

I also got good improvement with fiber optic cable and SFP module. In my case I need two pair one for laptop and another at Devialet or amp/dac side. Overall sound becomes more soft and less grainy. I am using 6 inch ethernet cable from mono price ( Cat6e)
I can increase the volume more because overall the sound become soft. Only thing which I didnt like is the need of four power outlet for four sfp module.
I got tied up with work and couldn't listen like before but overall I am happy with the change. I am thinking about building/getting a good server as a next step.

Thanks
Renjith
Renjith
Yes I have been saying you need a good server. Roon nucleus is reasonable and best. But you have many choices in USA so can go for higher models of other brands.
Why do you use 4 TP Link switches.
One TP Link and the other switch you buy with one SFP Port and Multiple LAN ports . So you can connect any number of equipment..
Your sound becomes SOFT at higher volume.
Mine is not Soft but smooth, Huge and Dynamic. The voices I hear are like never before . Possibly our taste differ or possibly your DAC is built in your amp which already might be smooth.
I have ordered a switch with 2 SFP ports and 4 LAN ports. I will be using only two power cables and can connect multiple equipments using 4 LAN ports.
Improvement in my system is scary. I have only connected my Roon. Yet to connect my streamer SOTM. Listening directly from Roon Nucleus to DAC. SOTM streamer not in use right now.

No offence taken Sir. We are merely discussing and sharing our viewpoints which are in turn a messy sum of our subjective experiences and our objective thoughts. The fun is in entertaining another school of thought and allowing the possibility of that also being correct for someone else.

Yes, Digital is evolving. But there are people using DACs bought 5 years ago with a new network bridge and their DAC delivers a new level of performance previously unknown to them. Most devices are updated often and new features and functionality are updated every now and then. But I like the fact that the old DAC is still relevant and usable today.
I fully agree Gunbir Network bridge make huge difference and can take your old DAC to another level as in my case. SOtM took me to another level and than roon nucleus adding to it.
 
Renjith
Yes I have been saying you need a good server. Roon nucleus is reasonable and best. But you have many choices in USA so can go for higher models of other brands.
Why do you use 4 TP Link switches.
One TP Link and the other switch you buy with one SFP Port and Multiple LAN ports . So you can connect any number of equipment..
Your sound becomes SOFT at higher volume.
Mine is not Soft but smooth, Huge and Dynamic. The voices I hear are like never before . Possibly our taste differ or possibly your DAC is built in your amp which already might be smooth.
I have ordered a switch with 2 SFP ports and 4 LAN ports. I will be using only two power cables and can connect multiple equipments using 4 LAN ports.
Improvement in my system is scary. I have only connected my Roon. Yet to connect my streamer SOTM. Listening directly from Roon Nucleus to DAC. SOTM streamer not in use right now.

I am looking for a good option. Just wondering to go with nucleus or with a server suggested by lithiumnk
Sever add lot of flexibility for future changes/updates.

I was using ethernet to connect to Devialet . So I use one at devialet and another for my laptop.
For each ethernet we need two SFP module no. Hence total 4 in my case. Only thing I didnt like is the need for 4 power outlet.

Thanks
Renjith
 
I am looking for a good option. Just wondering to go with nucleus or with a server suggested by lithiumnk
Sever add lot of flexibility for future changes/updates.

I was using ethernet to connect to Devialet . So I use one at devialet and another for my laptop.
For each ethernet we need two SFP module no. Hence total 4 in my case. Only thing I didnt like is the need for 4 power outlet.

Thanks
Renjith
I have bought one TP Link and another with 2 SFP ports and 4 LAN ports. So only two power cables
 

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Oh nice. I am still unclear about the connections.
Hi Renjith,
Here is post by an audiophile using Roon nucleus plus , Lumin 1 and Dutch & Dutch active speakers with built in DAC. He also converted his LAN connections to Optical using SFP modules and optical cables. And he finds a huge improvement.
Read what he has to say :—
Now that I've switched to the Dutch & Dutch 8c speakers, I need three ethernet cable connections in my audio room. Thus the need for an ethernet switch in this room. One ethernet cable is needed for my Lumin X1 streamer and one for each of the D&D speakers.

It also occurred to me that now that I had ethernet in this this room, I could also move my Roon Nucleus+ and the Keces P8 linear power supply for it to my audio room. Until now, they had been in my dining room immediately below my audio room, where the Nucleus+ could be attached via a short ethernet cable to my Xfinity Advanced Gateway modem/router. That router is in a great spot for supplying strong Wi-Fi signal throughout my old plaster-walled two-story house. I had tucked the Nucleus+ and its power supply under a hutch where they were out of the way of foot traffic. The router sits on the floor under a stationary stool right next to the hutch--I'm not sure why that location works so well for Wi-Fi in my home, but so it does.

I did not want to also move the router to the audio room for three reasons. First, the router has a fan which operates most of the time and thus would be audible during quiet passages of music. Second, I would have to route a cable connection to the audio room in addition to the ethernet connection and didn't want to incur the expense for that, given the $1,000 I just spent to get the ethernet connection to this room. Third, putting the router in this room probably would not give me the great Wi-Fi coverage I currently have in the house, necessitating some sort of mesh router system. Most of those (if not all) do not have the Wi-Fi bandwidth I currently get from my Xfinity router with Gigabit service. Even with Wi-Fi I regularly clock speeds of 600 mbps and above in my audio room. Most mesh systems are only rated for 100 to 200 mbps.

The advantage of moving the Roon Nucleus+ and its Keces P8 power supply to the audio room is that I could take advantage of the vibration isolation and purer powerlines available in the audio room, courtesy of my Salmander Archetype rack, A/V Room Service EVP isolation feet, the dedicated power lines, and P.I. Audio Group outlets and UberBusses in this room.

I also thought I'd take this opportunity to try out the fiber optical connection my Lumin X1 offers in place of the copper ethernet connection I'd been using. This type of wired connection is explained on the Lumin website at this fibre networking page. This required swapping out my TP Link gigabit switch for a switch with an SFP slot. Since I know little about fibre networking and did not want to have to learn how to troubleshoot such network connections, I followed Lumin's instructions to the letter, figuring that they know what fibre networking equipment works with their Lumin X1.

Thus, going by the recommendations on the Lumin Fibre Networking page I purchased the recommended Cisco switch (about $170 through Amazon), plus two of the 10GTek single-mode 1310nm SFP modules (about $40 from Amazon), plus a one-meter fibre optic cable from FS (about $10), for a total investment of about $220 to move from a copper ethernet connection between the Cisco switch and the Lumin X1 to a fibre optic ethernet connection between those two components.

I moved the outboard Lumin X1 linear power supply up to the top shelf of my three-shelf Salamander rack alongside the main chassis. I mounted the Roon Nucleus+ and its Keces P8 outboard linear power supply side by side on the middle shelf. I mounted the Cisco switch atop the two P.I. Audio Group UberBusses on the lower shelf. Each piece of equipment is mounted atop four A/V Room Service EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors) of the proper weight rating for each component. All equipment, including the D&D 8c speakers, is plugged into the UburBusses.

Here's a picture of this new set up:

IMG_7707.jpg

Note that if you want to try the fibre optic connection with the Lumin X1, I recommend that under options in the Lumin App you first select that the Network LED be on. I had it off before. While I don't know for sure, I think this is necessary for the fibre optic network connection. I did not call Lumin about this and can't find any online discussion about that option, but it makes sense that the option refers to enabling the fibre optic networking option. It does not refer to anything visible on the Lumin X1's screen display since the display stays the same with that option on or off.

Also note that the instructions for installing the SFP modules stress that these are static sensitive devices. In other words, you are advised to wear a wrist strap grounding device when working with these. I attached the grounding cable of mine to the ground screw on the back of my Lumin X1 and had no mishaps. There were no instructions supplied as to how to attach the two "wires" of the fibre optic cable to the modules or which side is "up" when you insert the modules. I saw what I thought was color coding (white and yellow) on both the cable and modules, but when I tried to match up these color codings the cable would not fit into the modules. I went with the way everything physically went together easily and got a reassuring click when the fibre cables mated with the modules. Similarly, the modules would only physically insert into the ports in one orientation, so that was decided for me. I "got sound" immediately the first time I hooked up the new connections with no "network error" messages.

So, how does it sound compared to the previous ethernet connections? More marvelous!

This system was already marvelous in sound, the best by far I've had in this room. But the combination of better vibration protection, purer powerlines, and the fibre optic connection between the switch and the Lumin moves the performance up to a level of naturalness and a freedom from distortion which I had to hear to believe. There is simultaneously an increased smoothness and transparency to the sound without any real detail being lost. What is lost is distortion which was adding just a bit of edge that was not really noticed until I heard its absence.

I did A/B the Lumin with a copper ethernet link, then with the optical link. That change in itself is a significant part of the transformation I'm hearing.

Changing from copper ethernet to the fibre optic connection between the switch and the Lumin X1 meant even less "grunge" in the background, blacker backgrounds, even less high frequency digital nasties, and a generally more open sound. This is true regardless of the quality of the program--it applies from low-bit-rate internet radio up through high-res programs from Tidal or Qobuz. Lumin and the reviewers who have commented on this type of connection's performance are correct. This is better yet than an ethernet connection, which itself was better than a single Wi-Fi link in the streaming connection.

I can heartily recommend that those of you who have a Lumin X1 (or another streamer with a fibre connection potential built in--are there any others?) try this right away. The money spent, at least in my system, was way out of proportion to the audible improvement. What was obviously already a top streamer before in terms of sound quality is now at another level entirely, qualitatively superior to anything I've previously heard in network streaming.
 
Hi SKR,

There is no question about sound quality, it is improving over long Ethernet copper cables for sure. Some Lumin streamer even accept fibre optic cable directly I guess.

I am using PI audio product for power in my setup. I am getting a sonicTrasnporter to use as a dedicated audio server
Renjith
 
Can anyone comment on the dCS network bridge and how it compares to a Bluesound based (NAD) streamer? Would appreciate replies only if you've actually experienced this change.
 
Can anyone comment on the dCS network bridge and how it compares to a Bluesound based (NAD) streamer? Would appreciate replies only if you've actually experienced this change.
I used to run a bluesound node2 and now run a dcs bartok . The bartok has in built dcs network bridge capabilities . You cannot put the two on same level to compare . Not only price wise but performance wise u wid take a quantum jump
 
@renjith lal I went from using a Macmini direct to my integrated to a UltraRendu with LPS & i am satisfied.
I would suggest a Network transport. There are great choices like Allo, Rendu series, Lumin, Auralic, Aurender & dCS Network Bridge.

Separately from your signature, seems you already have a Sonic Transporter - a roon core, similar to a NUC or Roon Nucleus.
Is there a reason you are exploring another Roon core?
 
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