Bass Traps

1. Thanks again. Can you please also specify the distance of the speakers from the Rear wall ? Or can they be placed anywhere in a line that is 2.5 feet from the side wall ?

I can answer your question of where to place your speakers to get smoothest frequency response. I can't guarantee you'll be happy with the answer.

Would love to learn, please do tell. ( Even though I have never been a fan of such sound...
 
Can you please also specify the distance of the speakers from the Rear wall ? Or can they be placed anywhere in a line that is 2.5 feet from the side wall ?
Placed anywhere along the length of the room, as long as they are at the quarter points of the width of the room.
Would love to learn, please do tell.
You're joking, right? What do you think we've been discussing all this time?
Even though I have never been a fan of such sound...
You don't like smooth response? You prefer to hear room generated peaks & dips that were not in the original recording?
 
You don't like smooth response? You prefer to hear room generated peaks & dips that were not in the original recording?

Sanjay, what often is passed off as 'Smooth" or "Flat" or "Neutral" sound is Castrated Bass. !!:mad:


I can answer your question of where to place your speakers to get smoothest frequency response. I can't guarantee you'll be happy with the answer.

Originally Posted by IndianEars
Would love to learn, please do tell.
You're joking, right? What do you think we've been discussing all this time?

Maybe I am missing something ? From what I have read only addresses evening out the (Most Difficult) Bass ( below 200 Hz ) region.

Besides a mention to reflect the Mid and HF by a membrane in front of the acoustic padding, I dont see any suggestions to balance the rest of the Freq response.

and you DID Offer new advise ( i presume) when you said :
I can answer your question of where to place your speakers to get smoothest frequency response. I can't guarantee you'll be happy with the answer.

Else you should have simply referred to the earlier content of this post....
 
Last edited:
Sanjay, what often is passed off as 'Smooth" or "Flat" or "Neutral" sound is Castrated Bass. !!:mad:
I tried to choose my words carefully, so I can't help if I wrote "smooth" but you read it as "flat". The former means fewer peaks & dips, the latter means all frequencies measuring the same level.

Smooth response can be tilted to have as much bass as you want, just without peaks & dips. For example, the famous B&K target curve is smooth (no irregularities) but not flat (downward tilt).

index.php
Maybe I am missing something ? From what I have read only addresses evening out the (Most Difficult) Bass ( below 200 Hz ) region.
With only 2 speakers available, cancelling the first three width modes (the three largest peaks & dips in the frequency response) is the smoothest response you're going to get using placement.
Besides a mention to reflect the Mid and HF by a membrane in front of the acoustic padding, I dont see any suggestions to balance the rest of the Freq response.
The rest of the frequency response cannot be fixed by placement. Notice the room mode calculator you downloaded and the article I posted are relevant to low frequencies only.
and you DID Offer new advise ( i presume when you said :
I was referring to your disappointment with the answer, since I was replying to your "not a happy situation" post I quoted.
 
Thanks for your feedback.

An anechoic chamber will also provide s smooth response, but I dont particularly care for he way music or even speach sounds in such a room.

The rest of the frequency response cannot be fixed by placement. Notice the room mode calculator you downloaded and the article I posted are relevant to low frequencies only.

Yes, I am aware of that, as I have mentioned in my post. However, playing around with the speaker toe-in ... ie Speaker positioning will also yield quite dramatic changes

But here Are other measures (besides speaker placement ) that can help significantly, such as diffusers or absorbers at the First Reflection point & behind the listening position, especially if its close to the rear wall.
 
Last edited:
An anechoic chamber will also provide s smooth response, but I dont particularly care for he way music or even speach sounds in such a room.
Anechoic chambers provide flat response (no room gain), which is why speakers are measured in such a room. Let's not continue to conflate "flat" with "smooth".
However, playing around with the speaker toe-in ... ie Speaker positioning will also yield quite dramatic changes
Sure, but we were discussing placement. It is a stretch to refer to toe-in as making use of placement, since the speakers stay in the same place as you rotate them towards or away from you.

Toe-in can affect the smoothness of frequency response IF your speakers have poor off-axis response. This is because you never hear a speaker alone, you always hear a speaker and its reflections. So even when the speaker has flat on-axis response and is pointed towards you, the side of the speaker is pointed towards the side walls. Reflections coming off the sides will sound very different from the direct sound from the speaker. When they combine, it will result in very uneven response.

Below is an example of a speaker with poor off-axis response. Notice that as you move off-axis, the high frequencies don't just roll off, they really change in character.

ow2_off_axis.GIF


By comparison, speakers from Kef or anything from one of the Harman lines (Infinity, JBL, Revel) will have very consistent off-axis response. Side wall reflections from these speakers will sound very similar to the direct sound from the speaker. When they combine, the sound of the speaker won't change.

Below is an example of a speaker with decent off-axis response. Naturally, the higher frequencies are going to roll off, but it looks fairly similar to the on-axis response.

idunn_offaxis.jpg


Toe-in will affect the frequency response smoothness of the top speaker, but not have much effect on the frequency response smoothness of the bottom speaker.
But here Are other measures (besides speaker placement ) that can help significantly, such as diffusers or absorbers at the First Reflection point & behind the listening position, especially if its close to the rear wall.
If I'm using speakers with poor off-axis response, then I'll absorb the side wall reflections (so the sound of the speaker won't change in character with a ragged response). If I'm using speakers with good off-axis response, then I'll leave the reflections alone (so I get a wider soundstage).

In both cases, I try to cover the wall behind the speakers with as much absorbtion as I can. This has nothing to do with smooth frequency response but more to do with improving imaging in the front soundstage. All I want to hear from between my front speakers is their direct sound, not extraneous reflections that will muddy the delicate phantom imaging. Same reason to put absorbtion on at least the middle half of the wall behind me (since the speakers are pointing there and could result in distracting reflectons).
 
sdurani said:
Remember to make them at least 4 inches thick and, if possible, space them 3-4 inches away from the wall.

I totally agree, but believe that a 3 inch air space between the padding and wall is ESSENTIAL.
 
I totally agree, but believe that a 3 inch air space between the padding and wall is ESSENTIAL.
Essential to saving money. There are very few times in audio when you get something for nothing.

A 3 inch absorber spaced 3 inches from the wall will be about 90% as effective as a 6 inch absorber, but at half the cost since it uses only half the material (the air gap costs nothing).

To get broadband absorption (absorb effectively down to around 100Hz or so) it would be better to use a 4 inch absorber placed 4 inches from the wall.

Below that frequency range, absorbers start becoming too thick for consumer/home use, so subwoofer placement is used to address large bass problems.
 
Hi All,

With all the advice, i have started to experiment with speaker positions.

I. To provide more flexibility for speaker positioning, I have made DIY Stands to check how they sound before I buy solid bookshelf stands. The design is very similar to what i have done earlier.

To enable placement of sub woofer in the exact middile I have a stand for center channel with space to sub. Photos are attached. The whole thing costed Rs 500 for PVC 4" tubes, MSEAL / Anabond, Bag of Sand. Plywoods and saw is at home so used them to make the bottom and top plate for the speakers.

II. To reduce the furniture clutter and freedom of speaker placement, I am moving the stands on which the bookshelfs are mounted to other room. I am making the TNT Stand which Flanker, Ram and Gobble has made earlier. It is almost half done. I shall be finishing over next weekend, as the Bolts would be avilable only during that time.

Whole Stand Costed me so far :

1. MS 16mm Threaded Rods + 20 MS Bolts
2. SS Bolts
3. 75 SS Washers

All three put togther it was Rs .929. Turning the Rods into spikes costed me another Rs 120.

4. Plywoods shapping + additional was Rs 200 + Rs 300 (Rs 500)

Additional Costs Approximately Rs 500/-
1. Dome shaped Bolts for the Top
2. SS Bolts for remaining 4 Racks

Net Net Total Amount planned for this Rs 1600/-

III. Once all this is done, I planning to take a NAD Stereo player from one of the FM and how the speakers sound :)

IV. Final plan is to have the broadband absorption and first relection absorption done. I am yet to check this with the carpenter.

Will keep you guys posted. Thank you for all the suggestion so far.

regards,
Prasanna KV
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20130805_102406.jpg
    IMG_20130805_102406.jpg
    13.5 KB · Views: 62
  • IMG_20130805_102330.jpg
    IMG_20130805_102330.jpg
    13.3 KB · Views: 62
Last edited:
Adding TNT Stands pics which i missed to add last time.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20130810_142833.jpg
    IMG_20130810_142833.jpg
    16 KB · Views: 61
  • IMG_20130810_201021.jpg
    IMG_20130810_201021.jpg
    11.1 KB · Views: 60
  • IMG_20130810_201041.jpg
    IMG_20130810_201041.jpg
    8.3 KB · Views: 61
Follow HiFiMART on Instagram for offers, deals and FREE giveaways!
Back
Top