Birch plywood now available in India

[GeorgeO]

Re: Birch ply wood

Sorry didn't see this thread recently. 16mm landed cost in carpenters workshop is 5k per sheet.

 

[shafic]

Re: Birch ply wood

I have ordered few sheets from Mr. Basant for my next speaker cab project.
Regards.

 

[manniraj]

Re: Birch ply wood

Sorry didn't see this thread recently. 16mm landed cost in carpenters workshop is 5k per sheet.

Thats too expensive for my build considering I will at least need 6 sheets to make my BLH design based on the Fostex 208 sigma drivers :sad:

 

[tcpip]

Re: Birch ply wood

Does birch plywood have an outer finish as good as birch veneer? Can I actually eliminate the cost of veneer? If yes, then the entire pricing calculations turn upside down. I usually find that my veneer costs between ?80 and ?125 per sqft. (And this is just the raw veneer cost. PU polish is another shitload extra.)

The cost of birch ply quoted in that earlier post is ?169/sqft for 24mm. If I eliminate veneer, then this is an absolute steal. Anyone cribbing about birch ply costs was probably thinking of painting or using laminate on his enclosure.

So: does birch ply give me a birch veneer finish thrown in for free?

 

[GeorgeO]

Re: Birch ply wood

Yes. I'm not veneering the outer surfaces,as I normally do,, neither are other friends. However, each one to his own preference. .

 

[tcpip]

Re: Birch ply wood

Yes. I'm not veneering the outer surfaces,as I normally do,, neither are other friends. However, each one to his own preference. .

Wow. This is fabulous.

 

[MJ23Bulls]

Someone here quoted Basant K Lunia as the source for these Birch ply; looks like those messages were deleted; couldn't find them.
However, on contacting BK Lunia, he has directed me to contact Eximcorp at Chennai. So, BK Lunia & Eximcorp are one and the same.

Nathan

Yes this material that I used is stocked in Chennai in their depot. It was shipped from there:

Eximcorp India Pvt Ltd
11(24) X Block Annanagar Park Towers Flat No c Chennai.Ph 45500020
If you dont get any response please email BK Lunia.I dont know if they have any minimum order quantity etc. Do check and let us know pricing, order details etc if you do buy.

Cheers

 

[GeorgeO]

Yes BK Lunia works for Eximcorp to the best of my knowledge.

 

[tcpip]

Problem is no shop owner have ever heard about this word "Birch/beerch" in the area around navi mumbai where i am looking for this ply. I have already tried 6 shops in kharghar kamothe and in nerul. Steam is now another word as you mentioned. I am gonna try this one too.

I'm in Navi Mumbai. The dealer from whom I've been picking up all my ply for the last several years, a chap called City Plywood in Vashi Sector 29, can supply it and has a sample which clearly is reh genuine stuff.

Google for the shop's name and you'll get their phone number. Call them.

 

[tcpip]

You mean MDF is not suitable for building boxes or not suitable for bracing???

If no then How do you justify that plywood is better for bracing then MDF,whereas i havent seen anywhere on net or anyone giving drawback using MDF either for making boxes plus for bracing.

MDF may not be perfect for anything, for ideal projects. But it's good enough. Apparently, it's easier to shape in factories using automatic machines, hence it became popular with manufacturers of speakers who use such machines, and then the hobbyist and DIY community picked it up. I haven't checked the accuracy of this story personally.

In my experience, MDF is great for outer walls because it's more damped than ply. This means its natural resonant frequency is lower than ply. Ply on the other hand is more rigid, which allows me to make braces which give less play than MDF. 20mm ply is also 20% cheaper than good 25mm MDF.

So I use MDF for outer walls and ply for bracing. I daresay thick MDF will be as good as ply for bracing. This gives excellent enclosures with the least effort. Equally good or better enclosures can be made with other methods, but those methods may take a lot more money and time. For instance, good multi-layer walls may be deader than just a single sheet of MDF and bracing. I've often wondered how a wall would be if I make it with a combination of ordinary 18mm ply, with a sheet of 12mm glass stuck to it with Araldite from the inside. I am sure I'll still need braces for a large cabinet, but those braces can be reduced by a factor of 4, I'm guessing. The reason is because glass and ply have totally different natural resonant frequencies, and would therefore provide excellent constrained layer damping behaviour.

And yes, you can build excellent cabinets with just ply + bracing. No need for MDF. I've done it. The one thing which has failed, in my experience, is just plain 25mm MDF without any bracing. You always need some bracing, in my experience. I once build a (large) cabinet with 25mm MDF and stuck unbroken kadappa stone sheets to the insides. No bracing. It didn't deaden the walls at all. (It made the enclosure as heavy as a truck, though.) I realised that constrained layer approach by itself is not enough for large panels: you need some bracing, maybe just one cross-brace in the centre of the panel to couple the two opposing sidewalls to each other. This learning was key when I did my first proper multi-way floorstander, the Asawari 1, with an all-ply enclosure.

Having done all this, I now do MDF walls with ply bracing, and I feel (good, pore-free) ply walls with ply bracing will work just as well. (I'm talking 18-20mm ply here.)

My reason to be keen on birch ply is not because I think it'll sound better. (It may; what do I know? But then my speakers already sound excellent. ) I My reason stems from the fact that if I like the look of this ply surface, I can save the cost of veneer. Good veneer I use often sets me back a hundred bucks or more per sqft. Second reason: the exposed face of the edge of good pore-free ply has a beauty which can be exploited at various places in the enclosure, for aesthetic reasons. With a good router to shape the edge without splitting the ply, I'm keen to see what I can get.

BTW, internationally, a lot of really good speaker designers use no MDF, only Baltic birch. Troels Gravesen is, I believe one of them. I respect his work a lot. This material is clearly considered excellent speaker material. Just don't ignore the bracing.

 

[tcpip]

Found birch plywood supplier in Navi Mumbai

Got prices for birch plywood from a local shop, City Plywood, in Vashi, Navi Mumbai. He said that the prices differ slightly depending on whether the grain shape is "vertical" or "horizontal". I guess "vertical" means lengthwise, and "horizontal" means width-wise.

Prices for "vertical" grain pattern:

• 12mm: Rs.111/sqft
• 18mm: Rs.155/sqft
• 25mm: Rs.206/sqft

Horizontal grain is Rs.3 less per sqft. And of course, you have to buy full sheets of 8' x 4'. All these are local delivery, against cash payment.

I spoke with BK Lunia too, who has been referred to by other FMs here. He sent me SMS with quotes:

• 16mm: Rs.4,329/sheet or Rs.135.28/sqft
• 24mm: Rs.6,494/sheet or Rs.202.94/sqft

His prices are ex-Delhi, and several hundred rupees will be added per sheet for transport to Navi Mumbai by road. (He mentioned VRL Roadlines as his carrier.) His prices include GST, he's clarified. Payment is 100% in advance by NEFT.

Irrespective of comparison prices, I'll buy, when I do, from the local dealer, because I prefer to give my business to local guys, and because there's one problem in dealing with Mr Lunia: he wants to do a full "KYC" on me. He has said that he will only sell to a customer after he receives

• my PAN card copy
• my Aadhar card copy
• my bank details

I have absolutely no idea why a domestic trade transaction within India needs the buyer to supply all of these. In particular, why does he need my bank details? I know I need his bank details to remit money to him. And I know enough about GST to know that these KYC details don't have anything to do with the new GST rules. He may need my PAN and postal address for GST-compliant invoicing, but he doesn't need my bank details or Adhaar number.

So I checked from other FMs and they confirmed that BK Lunia only does transactions after he receives this information.

This is a big security risk. KYC information is routinely misused for crimes of various shades of identity theft. (One of my company's employees entered into a lease agreement for an apartment on behalf of my company, to be used by other outstation employees. His KYC details were misused by the real estate broker to obtain SIM cards, using which he did extortion phone calls. One victim complained to the police, the police traced back the KYC documents of the SIM card, and my company officer was hauled up. The police of course also traced back and arrested the actual culprit, but not before my colleague suffered a lot of harassment at two different police stations. This is not a theory -- these things routinely happen.) I am very, very hesitant to give my KYC documents to anyone, and least of all to a trader of plywood when I don't even know why he needs it.

So, yesterday, I had decided against dealing with Mr Lunia. Now that I've found a local source, I couldn't be happier. And I believe there are others in Bombay too, like M/s Swastik Plywood (I Googled), who will also supply birch plywood. So I don't think I'll have a problem getting a supply.


And now that I have pricing information, I was doing some thinking.

I pay Rs.70/sqft for 25mm MDF, plus, let us say, Rs.110/sqft for veneer. That makes for Rs.180/sqft for outer walls in my conventional approach. If I use 18mm birch ply instead, I pay Rs.155/sqft, and no veneer. So, this compares favourably with my older approach, whenever I can live with the birch ply appearance. For the front baffle, I use 2 x 25mm MDF for large floorstanders, and 1 x 25mm for small standmounts. If I switch over to birch plywood, of course, the front baffle becomes much more expensive than my old MDF approach -- I'll be using at least 2 x 18mm of birch ply, if not 2 x 25mm. But I can think about trying it for a couple of projects.

Interesting....

 

[keith_correa]

Re: Found birch plywood supplier in Navi Mumbai

<snip>he wants to do a full "KYC" on me. He has said that he will only sell to a customer after he receives

• my PAN card copy
• my Aadhar card copy
• my bank details

This is hilarious!

He may need my PAN and postal address for GST-compliant invoicing

Address - naturally! PAN - No!!!

Didn't he ask for your birth certificate? SSC and HSC mark sheets? Sun/Moon/Star sign? Kundali?

 

[tcpip]

Re: Found birch plywood supplier in Navi Mumbai

This is hilarious!


Address - naturally! PAN - No!!!

Actually, for shipping goods in the GST regime, PAN: yes. Every invoice my company now raises carries the PAN and GSTIN of the customer. This is needed for waybills too. I don't have a GSTIN, but the trader is legit in asking for my PAN.

<START OT>
Crazy regime, this GST. The entire public discourse seems to have focused on the amount of tax, the headache of 37 filings a year, and the tightening of working capital requirements due to monthly payments. But they've ignored something very serious, IMHO: the degree of data the govt is capturing of my business as part of the GST filing.

The GST filings require me to upload the data of each line item of each of my invoices. This is not necessary for the govt to know, strictly speaking, to let me pay any tax. It's something the govt has just inserted into our lives as part of the GST. The one or two other countries whose GST processes I know a bit about don't have anything like this at all. (They don't even have monthly filing processes.)

With this invoice level tracking, the govt now has forced the economy to go through the GST portal even to reverse an invoice or correct an erroneous invoice, actions which have no tax impact but have a huge privacy and data misuse potential. No one else seems to be bothered.
<END OT>

 

[GeorgeO]

I applaud your decision to buy local. Minimal hassle, hopefully this will be possible here in future as well. At this time I don't expect to be buying any more birch plywood in the near future. .

 

[MJ23Bulls]

M/s Lunia asking for KYC details is even prior to the GST regime. For that reason, I've decided against buying from him in June. Still looking for suppliers of birch ply in Chennai who doesn't ask my Aadhaar & Bank details

 

[tcpip]

M/s Lunia asking for KYC details is even prior to the GST regime. For that reason, I've decided against buying from him in June. Still looking for suppliers of birch ply in Chennai who doesn't ask my Aadhaar & Bank details

I don't know anything about Chennai, but given the size and depth of the city, I guess you will find it if you go to the area which is the hub of Chennai's timber trade and ask half a dozen shops.

In Bombay, this area is Reay Road. Most people can't imagine the timber goodies available there. You can get planks of pure timber of any of two dozen types of imported wood, including white cedar, beech, birch, pine, American cherry, walnut, acacia, and what not. Such planks can easily be shaped using a router to build top class front baffles of speakers. Awesome stuff.