Break-In / Burn-In Process

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msagar said:
You are perfectly fit to join flat earth society.
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Let me say just this. A guy who allows the signature of his amplifier to change after a bit of use, is not a good designer. I would hate to buy an amplifier that sounds dramatically different from what I hear during audition. I can certainly understand some changes due to the environment. But after I install it and the sound changes, I will be very unhappy.

In most cases, the changes you hear are placebo effect.

Cheers
 
The question I often end up wondering with is: if a piece of electronics can improve with 100 hours of use, why will stop improving after 100 hours? It should keep improving with use. If they improve in the beginning, they should keep improving with use infinitely, isn't it? Older the amp, the cable, the better it should be.
 
I can understand the logic behind things / equipments, which have movable part, working efficiently after a period, but burn-in period of cables... certainly has to be placebo effect.
"I put the CD I intend to listen to tomorrow in iced water overnight. That makes the CD stiffer and helps laser pick the data with greater accuracy " I have not heard such a strong sarcasting sentence in long time. Too good!
 
Please post your responses based upon personal experiences with specific equipment. Tired of 20th century self proclaimed ------.
 
msagar said:
Please post your responses based upon personal experiences with specific equipment. Tired of 20th century self proclaimed ------.
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Have you experienced anything yourself? You are also quoting some manuals one of which clearly says, 'The concept of burn-in is little understood. Does it take your ears some time to get used to the incredibly detailed and life like sound of an MSB product or is something actually changing?. That is just playing safe.

Cheers.
 
I would like to remind forum members that professional magazines / sites (such as stereophile, absolute sound, and positive feedback) reviewers publish equipment reviews after extensive listening which includes break-in / burn-in process or time period. Please do not buy equipment based upon reviews published soon after equipment launch.
 
Well it does change. I have witnessed many many electronic products like Amp to CDP to DAC. Leave alone the speakers as they are obvious to change their sound (for better) after loosening up the driver cone.

There are certain "brand new" electronic circuit components that change, in quantum manner, after first few uses. Like the die-electric material inside a capacitor. (don't ask me in details about the last part as I am a "Basic" Electrical Engineer and "Advanced" Computer Science Engg. ;) )
 
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koushik said:
Well it does change. I have witnessed many many electronic products like Amp to CDP to DAC. Leave alone the speakers as they are obvious to change their sound (for better) after loosening up the driver cone.

There are certain "brand new" electronic circuit components that change, in quantum manner, after first few uses. Like the die-electric material inside a capacitor. (don't ask me in details about the last part as I am a "Basic" Electrical Engineer and "Advanced" Computer Science Engg. ;) )
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Again any manufacturer with some amount of respect for himself, will burn-in the equipment, test it, and then pack it again. If a driver clone has to be loosened for assuring some amount of consistency in sound signature, that will/should be done.

I can point you to many manufacturers who take extraordinary pain to ensure that the sound signature they want stays always with their product such as Amps, and CD players. This includes 'burn-in' and retesting.

In any case this point has been discussed ad nauseum in this forum.

Cheers
 
msagar said:
I would like to remind forum members that professional magazines / sites (such as stereophile, absolute sound, and positive feedback) reviewers publish equipment reviews after extensive listening which includes break-in / burn-in process or time period. Please do not buy equipment based upon reviews published soon after equipment launch.
Click to expand...

If the sound does change after a break in period so dramatically, then why aren't these manufacturers doing the break-in at factory itself? It would be easy for them to run some of the current through their amps, isn't it?

:rolleyes:
 
This is a fantastic topic, and no matter what, it keeps coming back. Burn-IN: Yes I understand for speakers. As all of you know its a mechanical device, the drivers. It needs to move a bit initially before freely responding to the frequencies it is fed with. The break-in for speaker probably is to neutralize the friction effect of drivers. I also understand that there are various reasons why manufacturer wont burn-in these speakers before selling it. But what is the burn-in for Cables. If a cable has a break-in/burn-in period or the performance of a cable can be improved by using it more and more, then why dont this hold good for the electric wires we use for general lighting? Have anybody experienced better lighting system just because we use those wires for long time? I have heard people suggesting that after a long use of these cables the resistance effect will come down and hence improve the performance. Is this true?

Or as Venkatcr has pointed out, its just that we get used to the sond so much that we call that as burn-in? :)
 
There is another aspect about running your equipment for some time and then it will sound better. This is specifically about the electronics components like resistors, capacitors etc are usually designed to work in a certain temp range and have their peak sounding quality once the equipment attains that temp. Designers usually decide this temp based on normal working temp. Now the electronics add the heat after some usage, so designers assume that as the operating temp and thats where the equipment will sound best. So, if you to let the equipment run for few minutes, the electronics heats up and attains that temp and the performance will be better. Again, this performance is not that huge, but enough to let some people realize it.

Often, people confuse this with the burn-in. And also, its only true with the equipment which is designed in keeping a certain temp band in mind. For the equipment with broader temp range, it will be way hard to notice any difference.
 
msagar said:
I would like to remind forum members that professional magazines / sites (such as stereophile, absolute sound, and positive feedback) reviewers publish equipment reviews after extensive listening which includes break-in / burn-in process or time period. Please do not buy equipment based upon reviews published soon after equipment launch.
Click to expand...

FWIW here is what Harbeth has to say, if any one cares.

1. Do I need to 'burn-in' my Harbeths?

2. The big burn-in fantasy

Peace.
 
It all started in 1987 with NAD receiver / cd player, Phase tech speakers and monster cables.

Purchased Adcom 555 amp / pre-amp, Yamaha cd player, Yamaha cassette deck, and little Maggies.

Purchased Arcam amp, Marantz cd player, Sony ES cassette deck, Rega Turntable, Spica speakers and Tara labs cables.

Purchased CAL transport, Audioquest cables, Harmon Kardon cassette deck and Adcom GDA 700 DAC.

Purchased AES amp / pre-amp, Rega cd player, Monitor Audio speakers and MIT cables.

Purchased Wadia 170i and DacMagic. Purchased Wadia 151 recently.

I still have most of the products. My post on the forum is for new buyers based upon my experience with products listed above. In my experience amps need 100-200 hours, source components / DAC 300-400 hours, cables 100-200 hours and speakers 200+ hours. Of all the equipment Adcom DAC took more than a month to sound its best.
 
manoj.p said:
There is another aspect about running your equipment for some time and then it will sound better. This is specifically about the electronics components like resistors, capacitors etc are usually designed to work in a certain temp range and have their peak sounding quality once the equipment attains that temp. Designers usually decide this temp based on normal working temp. Now the electronics add the heat after some usage, so designers assume that as the operating temp and thats where the equipment will sound best. So, if you to let the equipment run for few minutes, the electronics heats up and attains that temp and the performance will be better. Again, this performance is not that huge, but enough to let some people realize it.

Often, people confuse this with the burn-in. And also, its only true with the equipment which is designed in keeping a certain temp band in mind. For the equipment with broader temp range, it will be way hard to notice any difference.
Click to expand...

Well put. Such phenomena is more easily noticeable in cold regions where the temperature is well below zero. Flow of electrons may be affected to a small degree by large changes in operating temperature such as 40-50 degree centigrades. But again, any time music is played, if any one single component that can benefit from continuous use, it is the moving cones. In any system, at any setting, in any country, in any operating environment, the changes people notice are more to the credit of the speakers, and changes noticed thereby, than anything else.

Btw, I have not come across anyone among millions of audiophile worldwide come out to cover an event where people were able to tell a 'burnt-in' cable from an unburnt one in a double blind test.
 
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