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Bubbles on Vinyl Record

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sureshkuranjalayil

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Hi,

On checking one vinyl from my collection, it noticed bubbles are developed all over the surface - photograph of the same attached. I have got 2 copies of this particular record - Columbia Label and and I remember correctly that while collecting first copy, it was having some bubbles on it and the second copy was in Excellent condition. After a period of around 2 years, the second copy has also developed bubbles.

I have kept these records with other titles, the not find any issues with other titles. Opinion requested from members whether this issue is because of some manufacturing defect (because only this particular title is having the issue) or with the problems in storage.

Regards,
Suresh Babu
 

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rikhav

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Yes they are very audible defects. Some LP's are a "sandwich" of plastic (not normal vinyl), carboard, and plastic. The pimples appear when moisture invades the edge or center hole and causes a bump in the middle cardboard layer. I'm a big used record buyer, and I've had the "grooves" of plastic come off both sides leaving me with a 12" disc of carboard and two very floppy 12" plastic discs with the grooves on them. If they are solid vinyl, the pimples are factory defects, which I believe are a combination of not enough dwell-time in the press and/or insufficent moulding release agent, so the pimples had stuck to the stampers. Damaged stampers are another possible cause. Test play them, and if the defects are objectionable to you, ask for an exchange or refund. FWIW, I've had MUCH better luck buying used records from Amazon than eBay. Better prices at Amazon with only one defective LP (replaced for free with a better graded LP) vs: zero good LP's off "feeBay". Your mileage may vary.... Since I sell most of my garage/yard/estate sale duplicates, I always hate to hear of someone getting "burned" this way. Any LP I don't sell at a friend flea-market booth for under $1, is sonically good, the album cover being the greatest variable between a good+ or a very good for me. I have 3 used record stores I do business with, and I'm proud that they tell me I'm the most conservitive about quality ranking of any of their sellers. I hope things work out for you.


Above is a post from following thread

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=33045
 

sureshkuranjalayil

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Thanks Rikhav for the information.

This LP, when I purchased was in Excellent condition, but developed bubbles over a period of time, hence the confusion.

Regards,
Suresh Babu
 

TD150

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Hi Suresh,

I have a similar problem with one of my owned 80's Hindi movie LP which was mint all these years till last month when I played it. To my shock I found similar bubbles all over the surface (on both sides) of the LP. I am also finding out the reason why it happened, as none of my other LPs have had such a problem.

Hope it is just a manufacturing defect.
 

sureshkuranjalayil

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In the last two days I have checked almost 3000 LPs from my collection to find any other title is having this issue. One Satyam Shivam Sundaram LP, which was in Excellent condition around 1 year back (when I last played it) is now having full bubbles all over the LP in both the sides.

Another LP, Hits from Goa, which was also in EX condition, has just started developing bubbles (only few small ones). Is any method to prevent spreading bubbles on this LP so that I can "Save" it.


Regarsd,
Suresh Babu
 

TD150

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Getting such defects after so many years of manufacturing it is very unusual. It might be due to
1). the quality of inner sleeves or
2). cleaning chemicals (if any used) or
3). may be environmental effect.

I suspect sr no. 1 then no. 2 (may be I am wrong), needs further investigation.
 

Hiten

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TD-150 is right. either it is cleaning process or place where it is stored. either too humid or too hot. Where are the vinyls stored ? is it damp or hot ? somewhere like near amplifier etc. Logically vinyl which have survived for decades should survive some more.
 

sureshkuranjalayil

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TD-150 is right. either it is cleaning process or place where it is stored. either too humid or too hot. Where are the vinyls stored ? is it damp or hot ? somewhere like near amplifier etc. Logically vinyl which have survived for decades should survive some more.

As these are my favourite titles, are stored in a cupboard in the living room and is not near amplifier etc. Regarding inner sleeves, these records are having the original plastic sleeves comes with HMV records. I normally clean the records with wet cloth, without any chemicals. As these are pre-owned ones, not aware how it is cleaned by the previous owner (s).

Regards,
 

rikhav

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Are the bubbles more near the outer edges of vinyl or edges of centre hole ?
If yes , then the theory in the post I have linked is true
When something is a sandwich of few material they tend to loose bonding mofe from the edges and that is where little moisture would enter from and over time create those bubbles
As said in the post maybe not all vinyls are made in that sandwich way or even if they are only these few vinyls would be losing bonding between materials from the edges
Also since you clean with wet clothes or water some water would be entering from those slight open edges and then creating those bubbles

Can you keep the vinyl under some hot air say from a hair dryer? And see if those bubbles move or go away slightly?
Not sure if vinyl is advsied to kept under hot air
 

sureshkuranjalayil

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Dear Rikhav,

The bubbles are seen all over the vinyl surface, on both the sides. As mentioned by you, I also assume that the issue is due the quality of raw materials used for manufacturing of these records. As these are pre-owned ones, the previous owner (s) may have cleaned the vinyls under running water, leading to entering of water through the edges. Over a period of time, it develops bubbles.

Applying of hot air on vinyls is not at all recommended, as it will definitely deform vinyls and damage grooves.

Regards,
Suresh Babu
 

Hari Iyer

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Suresh,
Which part of Mumbai do you live? Some parts of the western suburbs are infamous for their corrosive air. Also you have mentioned you have stored them in a cupboard. Hope it's wooden one and not one of those Godrej iron/ steel ones which attract moisture.
 

sureshkuranjalayil

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Dear Hari ji,

I stays Khandeshwar, near Panvel. I don't thin weather here is corrosive. The records are stored in wooden cupboard only.


Regards.
Suresh Babu
 

sunder

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As said in the post maybe not all vinyls are made in that sandwich way or even if they are only these few vinyls would be losing bonding between materials from the edges
Also since you clean with wet clothes or water some water would be entering from those slight open edges and then creating those bubbles

Rikhav, how to identify the records as made in which method: Sandwich or other method? Generally, old records are cleaned by using different type of wet cleaning machines ( Spin Clean & other automatic systems). If we could identify the type ( sandwiched and other type) of records, then we may avoid the wet wash. This thing will make the vinyl collectors to feel extreme worry.
 

sureshkuranjalayil

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Rikhav, how to identify the records as made in which method: Sandwich or other method? Generally, old records are cleaned by using different type of wet cleaning machines ( Spin Clean & other automatic systems). If we could identify the type ( sandwiched and other type) of records, then we may avoid the wet wash. This thing will make the vinyl collectors to feel extreme worry.

This is an important point. If such records can be identified, we can take precautions.
 

rikhav

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If it's manufacturing defect it would be visible instantly or with some issues with playback.
So that's not a problem

The point where some claim that over time the edges loose bonding and some LPs being multiple layers of different materials there is a small air gap and moisture or some water might enter through that

I guess this part would be very tricky to discover. Maybe members having more experience with vinyl can share their views
 

Hiten

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I have read somewhere that to lower manufacturing cost not all albums were made using virgin plastic some were recycled plastic. Probably that material doesn't hold through in long run or varying climate or chemical reactions.
 

kuruvilajacob

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I have several records with bubbles. I have come to the conclusion that it is a manufacturing defect since it is seen in only some records. I have noticed them in good label records as well as others. I doubt if there's any way to stop it. I play such records on ceramic players in my radiograms. Plays absolutely fine
 
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