Budget entry level dslr

[ranjeetrain]

I also want to point out that no one seems to be suggesting Canon cameras. If you put aside the Nikon vs Canon debate (bottom-line: both are good), Canon has some very well priced entry level DSLR cameras. My suggestion would be to buy the cheapest body possible (even the cheapest one will have more features than you can handle, and will vastly outperform any superzoom. Many Canon bodies are priced cheaper than most superzooms too and are significantly cheaper than Nikon.

He is not into that debate, but your this comment will definitely turn it into one

So does every manufacturer, Penax/Olympus/Sony. But people suggest the route with proven track record.

Wow, that must have taken a great imagination to write. Would you be able to back that statement up with some actual price? Or do you just want to spread rumors here? Canonrumor is a better place for that.

 

[bibin3210]

But people suggest the route with proven track record.
.

You mean to say that Canon has not yet proved its capabilities? People go for Canon because of its Superior AF system and high quality lenses and Nikon's are good in low ISO.

Please have a look at PhotoCamel - Your Friendly Photography Forum, and see yourself the no. of Canon users.

Thanks,
Bibin

 

[hseplak]

Decide what is the budget. Then its easier to freeze on the best you can get out of it. If you keep the budget open or change the goal post quite often, then you cannot reach a conclusion.

Hi, The moment i decide on the goalpost (nikon d90)everybody is trying to add a point and the confusion remains

 

[milestoneseeker]

Don't read too much into the debate. As mentioned, both are equally competent camera makers and you can't go wrong with either of them. Now just hit the ball

 

[pupupuchi28]

Hi, The moment i decide on the goalpost (nikon d90)everybody is trying to add a point and the confusion remains

If your confusion is Canon Vs Nikon, then keep the discussion aside and go for the one you like. Either brands are good. Therefore you have this debate of Canon Vs Nikon everywhere, without any conclusion. There are good and bad in both. But to categorise the good and make the purchase, will add a ton of confusion to you (as a starter). BTW I'm a canon guy

I second to the fact that Cheap body + Good lens will give better pictures compared to good body + cheap lens @ both same price. I used D90 for a week and found it to be good. But unfortunately it was with a 18-105 kit lens that front focused by two mtrs (yes trust me :lol. I dont think it would have given brilliant results even if the lens was not defective. Kit lenses are mostly consumer grade lenses. I guess better lenses would have worked wonders with it. But are ready to pay another chunk for good lenses?

I just read couple of your earlier posts and realised D90 is a choice because of inbuilt AF system Have you decided on the lenses (without AF motor), if you decide not to use the kit lens? Give it a thought before you jump.

There can be another long debate on pros & cons of inbuilt AF motor, so I refrain.
But keep one thing in mind. If you are going for Canon body, then get a body without inbuilt AF system. Canon does not have too many lenses without AF motor in it. So in a nut shell you will end up spending douple money (AF motor for body as well as in lenses). The ones which are meant for bodies with inbuilt AF motor, are just average (strictly my opinion). BTW I dont think there are good lenses from thirdparty (Sigma, Tamron, Tokina etc) without AF motor in lens.

 

[ranjeetrain]

People go for Canon because of its Superior AF system and high quality lenses and Nikon's are good in low ISO.

The only thing you forgot to add is - that the users who go for Canon due to "Superior AF" have never experienced the Nikon AF.

Nikon AF, Nikon Metering, Nikon WB, Nikon artificial lighting these are all head and shoulder above that of Canon's. Stop visiting forums which are full of Canon fanboys and shoot some photos with both Nikon and Canon to learn the reality. Take an equally priced Nikon and a Canon and shoot in various situations, day and Night, studio and on location, portraits to stills to macros to sports, to street, to fashion. Nikon beats Canon everywhere except Portraits and Sports. Why? Because for portrait you don't need details and Canon is good at not giving you details. For sports, Nikon never paid much attention to grabbing that area which has always be a forte of Canon.

As for your claim about Canon AF being superior, would you like to take a challenge? A Nikon D300 vs Canon 5D challenge? Tell me if you are up for it. Canon 5D is two times as costly as Nikon D300 but still has poorer AF and poorer WB than the Nikon. Please wake up and see the light. If you are confident, take the challenge, if not, stop reading gossip written by fanboys and go out and get some real hands on on the gear you are talking about. Because you can get away with such farce in front of people who haven't had the chance to explore much, but if you say such things in front of people who have been there done that, you are not going to get away with that.

And your claim about "high quality lenses"?? That's the biggest joke I have heard this whole month. Nikon lenses are far far better than Canons. Nikon is the master of that art. Canon used to depend on Nikon lenses before Nikon decided to enter camera manufacturing. Canon lenses suffer from some basic design flaws. Many Canon users use Nikon lenses even today due to their superior quality. Please google and do some reading before posting hoax like that.

 

[pupupuchi28]

Typical Canon Vs Nikon debate is 'on' :clapping:

This reminds me of a movie "Is raat ki subah nahi"

BTW the OP wanted opinion on something else.

 

[asliarun]

He is not into that debate, but your this comment will definitely turn it into one

So does every manufacturer, Penax/Olympus/Sony. But people suggest the route with proven track record.

Wow, that must have taken a great imagination to write. Would you be able to back that statement up with some actual price? Or do you just want to spread rumors here? Canonrumor is a better place for that.

I very specifically said that I don't want to start a Canon vs Nikon debate and you've gone ahead and done that.

Please note that in none of my comments did I say anything negative about Nikon or any other manufacturer. For the record, I actually like Nikon quite a lot - their build quality and features are always top notch.

I'm not sure why you also have to be unpleasant or sarcastic about this.

Q1. Please show me a Nikon or any other DSLR body that is available for 22k, and that too in the white market. I was very specifically talking about this price point because it allows you to get a DSLR body AND and zoom lens for under 30k if you wanted to.

As far as proven track record is concerned, both Canon and Nikon have been around for a very long time, since the pre-DSLR days, and both are equally well established among amateurs, am-pros, and pros. If you have a Nikon and are happy with it and feel passionate about it, more power to you. Enjoy your fine electro-mechanical device. I would too if I was in your shoes.

However, if you let you bias or personal preference prevent you from giving the right suggestion to someone else, that is wrong.

Please look at all the posts before mine in this thread. You will notice that almost all of them make Nikon recommendations. I wasn't implying bias - but was saying that you should also lay out Canon options, especially since you can get an entry level Canon body for far cheaper.

 

[ranjeetrain]

@^^ None of what you have written now is a justification for saying "Many Canon bodies are priced cheaper than most superzooms too and are significantly cheaper than Nikon."

That was one heck of a statement. Impossible to back up. Shall we start from there? That's where it began.

You made a horribly wrong statement with that. May be you didn't intend so, but you put Canon head and shoulder above everything else on the market on net value, which is wrong.

If not, I still am looking for some actual prices from market to back up what you said.

You can't, because what you said was simply incorrect.

 

[bibin3210]

The only thing you forgot to add is - that the users who go for Canon due to "Superior AF" have never experienced the Nikon AF.

Nikon AF, Nikon Metering, Nikon WB, Nikon artificial lighting these are all head and shoulder above that of Canon's. Stop visiting forums which are full of Canon fanboys and shoot some photos with both Nikon and Canon to learn the reality. Take an equally priced Nikon and a Canon and shoot in various situations, day and Night, studio and on location, portraits to stills to macros to sports, to street, to fashion. Nikon beats Canon everywhere except Portraits and Sports. Why? Because for portrait you don't need details and Canon is good at not giving you details. For sports, Nikon never paid much attention to grabbing that area which has always be a forte of Canon.

As for your claim about Canon AF being superior, would you like to take a challenge? A Nikon D300 vs Canon 5D challenge? Tell me if you are up for it. Canon 5D is two times as costly as Nikon D300 but still has poorer AF and poorer WB than the Nikon. Please wake up and see the light. If you are confident, take the challenge, if not, stop reading gossip written by fanboys and go out and get some real hands on on the gear you are talking about. Because you can get away with such farce in front of people who haven't had the chance to explore much, but if you say such things in front of people who have been there done that, you are not going to get away with that.

And your claim about "high quality lenses"?? That's the biggest joke I have heard this whole month. Nikon lenses are far far better than Canons. Nikon is the master of that art. Canon used to depend on Nikon lenses before Nikon decided to enter camera manufacturing. Canon lenses suffer from some basic design flaws. Many Canon users use Nikon lenses even today due to their superior quality. Please google and do some reading before posting hoax like that.

Hi ranjeetrain ,

I am not here for a debate. Canon Vs Nikon debate is a never ending topic and the arguments keep on going. In my point of view and experience both are equally good and one is good in certain area and other in some other area. Depends on the use and kind of photography user has to select one which satisfies his/her requirement.

Please don't compare 5D (FullFrame) to D300 (Crop), it is like comparing a Tube Amp to a Chip Amp. Canon 40D is a good candidate to compare with D300.

I have not posted any hoax here and i don't want to do that also. I just mentioned very few basic things people consider while looking for a DSLR.

Thanks,
Bibin

 

[asliarun]

@^^ None of what you have written now is a justification for saying "Many Canon bodies are priced cheaper than most superzooms too and are significantly cheaper than Nikon."

That was one heck of a statement. Impossible to back up. Shall we start from there? That's where it began.

You made a horribly wrong statement with that. May be you didn't intend so, but you put Canon head and shoulder above everything else on the market on net value, which is wrong.

If not, I still am looking for some actual prices from market to back up what you said.

You can't, because what you said was simply incorrect.

To the first part of my comment:

I just went to Flipkart, went to Cameras -> High Zoom, and then sorted the list from Price High to Low.

Nikon Coolpix P510 Point & Shoot - 23k
Nikon Coolpix P510 Point & Shoot: 16.1 Megapixels: Camera Review, Price in India, Compare: Flipkart.com

Olympus SZ-31 MR Point & Shoot - 23k
Olympus SZ-31 MR Point & Shoot: 16 Megapixels: Camera Review, Price in India, Compare: Flipkart.com

Fujifilm FinePix HS20EXR Point & Shoot - 23k
Fujifilm FinePix HS20EXR Point & Shoot: 16 Megapixels: Camera Review, Price in India, Compare: Flipkart.com

Sony DSC-HX200V Point & Shoot - 24.5k
Sony DSC-HX200V Point & Shoot: 18.2 Megapixels: Camera Review, Price in India, Compare: Flipkart.com

All of these superzooms are more expensive than the Canon D1000 body (22k - again on Flipkart), which is what I wrote in my previous post.
http://www.flipkart.com/canon-eos-1...7BTY&ref=c5e8676f-b8fe-4077-bf08-2cdef50a912e

To the second part of my question, which you also conveniently ignored - please show me a Nikon DSLR body that is available for 22k or even in the same price range.

To quote back what you said, "impossible to backup".
Perhaps, you should have done a simple internet search before making strong statements yourself.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Hi Bibin,

I totally agree, Canon-Nikon debate is a never ending one. And it bothers me as much as it does others. But the problem is -- there is so much misinformation floating around (which is mostly caused by inexperienced users who totally and completely base their opinion on what they read) rather than first hand experience.

If any Canon (or Pentax/Sony/Olympus) owner says something about a product from first hand experience and after due diligence on their part (specially if they are comparing two products), then they must be very very careful. Posting something in a fanboy manner (without proper research/first hand experience) is the cause of all the trouble.

In my above post I mentioned 5D on purpose. My point was that Nikon AF is superior to Canon even if you buy the next level camera from Canon. And trust me I have shot with my group with D90 head to head with 5D and even 5D Mk II. D90 AF is easily at par with 5D and D300 AF better than 5D Mk II. Nikon AF simply gets more photos right with less fuss compared to Canon. If you find it hard to trust me go out, find some friends with the said cameras, put them in Auto-focus mode and shoot. And then compare the result for yourself.

My point is -- there is a LOT OF misinformation, floating around on such forums. And if I read it, I can't resist not to clear them up. Rather it will be a crime to let them pass untouched.

Please let me know if you disagree with anything. I am here for a fact-based debate in a respectful manner. No insults, no flaming, just facts stacked against each other and see where does it go. Let the better product sell itself, rather than misinformation based word-of-mouth marketing.

 

[milestoneseeker]

Guys,

Just like AV, photography is something one picks up and learns to evaluate through hands-on experience. So let's have OP decide on the camera + lense (if he wants that info too) and have him evaluate over the years (?) which one suits his eyes? If he is expected to get everything absolutely right in the first shot (pun unintended), how would he ever get to experience indulgences of this hobby?

Peace.

 

[hseplak]

Typical Canon Vs Nikon debate is 'on' :clapping:

This reminds me of a movie "Is raat ki subah nahi"

BTW the OP wanted opinion on something else.

Hi, Let alone my opinion, i am already liking this debate:lol::clapping:

 

[ranjeetrain]

To the first part of my comment:

I just went to Flipkart, went to Cameras -> High Zoom, and then sorted the list from Price High to Low.

Nikon Coolpix P510 Point & Shoot - 23k
Nikon Coolpix P510 Point & Shoot: 16.1 Megapixels: Camera Review, Price in India, Compare: Flipkart.com

Olympus SZ-31 MR Point & Shoot - 23k
Olympus SZ-31 MR Point & Shoot: 16 Megapixels: Camera Review, Price in India, Compare: Flipkart.com

Fujifilm FinePix HS20EXR Point & Shoot - 23k
Fujifilm FinePix HS20EXR Point & Shoot: 16 Megapixels: Camera Review, Price in India, Compare: Flipkart.com

Sony DSC-HX200V Point & Shoot - 24.5k
Sony DSC-HX200V Point & Shoot: 18.2 Megapixels: Camera Review, Price in India, Compare: Flipkart.com

All of these superzooms are more expensive than the Canon D1000 body (22k - again on Flipkart), which is what I wrote in my previous post.
Canon EOS 1000D SLR: SLR: Camera Review, Price in India, Compare: Flipkart.com

To the second part of my question, which you also conveniently ignored - please show me a Nikon DSLR body that is available for 22k or even in the same price range.

To quote back what you said, "impossible to backup".
Perhaps, you should have done a simple internet search before making strong statements yourself.

Sorry Arun, you are still unable to back up your statement!

You said "Many Canon bodies are priced cheaper than most superzooms too and are significantly cheaper than Nikon.".

What you have shown here is only ONE DSLR being less expensive than only the most expensive Superzooms . Where are MANY DSLRs??? That too you are quoting the price of camera which is long outdated, long out of production, out of market. You can't prove this point by comparing a long outdated and out of market camera with the most expensive of superzooms which are loaded with features.

You mentioned 4 superzoom examples, I can mention 40 examples of superzooms cheaper than 1000D. So your point about most superzooms is up in smoke. You could at best say "The cheapest, long dead and beaten out of production Canon DSLR is cheaper than some high-end superzooms". Even then it will be a LONG SHOT, because the prices that you are comparing are apples vs oranges. A superzoom comes with a 300-400mm (typical) lens. Where is the price of 400mm f/5.6 lens in that 22k??? Did you forget to add that? :lol:

Please compare a current camera to current cameras, not an outdated with current cameras.

As far your Canon being cheaper than Nikon, okay buddy, I was trying to save that for later, but since you asked for it.... The cheapest DSLR in CURRENT DSLR line of Nikon and Canon is D3100 (a Nikon not a Canon) hyeah: So get over it. You are quoting the price of a long dead horse to prove an invalid point

 

[asliarun]

okay, fine, that part of my statement was not accurate. There is only 1 Canon DSLR body that is cheaper than *some* superzoom point and shoot cameras. Happy?

When I said this originally, I assumed that someone who is tossing up between a DSLR and a superzoom will be obviously looking at high end superzooms. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense.

The basic point is that you ended up nit-picking every word of what I said instead of trying to understand why I am saying something. I was saying that OP should get the cheapest DSLR body available in the market and spend money on lenses. Canon 1000D is only one example. If you find a better or cheaper body, then more power to you. However, this is a better strategy than spending double the money on a supposedly "future-proof" body with 15 awesome features out of which a beginner will not even use 3.

As far as Canon 1000D is concerned, out of production or not, it is commonly available for purchase, is a very capable DSLR camera with more than enough entry level features to keep an beginner amateur or hobbyist happy.

Are you telling me that you will not buy an audio amplifier or a pair of speakers because it is out of production? That is a ridiculous notion.

Anyway, I'm losing interest in this thread. It sounds like you love arguing for the sake of it.

By the way - I said in my original post "Many Canon bodies are priced cheaper than most superzooms"

I never said that Canon body+lens was cheaper - I said a Canon body is cheaper than a superzoom.

So please read carefully before posting something yourself. To quote what you said "Where is the price of 400mm f/5.6 lens in that 22k??? Did you forget to add that? :lol:"

Just for the record, you can get a Sigma 300mm lens for 8k and a Canon 300mm lens for 11k. Yes, you can indeed get a Canon DSLR body and a zoom lens for 30k.

Sigma 70-300mm F/4-5.6 DG Macro
Sigma 70-300mm F/4-5.6 DG Macro (for Canon AF Digital SLR) Lens | Lens | Flipkart.com

Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III Lens
Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III Lens | Lens | Flipkart.com

Like I said, you are not going to be happy no matter what I say so there is no point. You've probably already found 10 faults and errors in what I just posted anyway.

 

[pupupuchi28]

Hi, Let alone my opinion, i am already liking this debate:lol::clapping:

Are bhai tumhara DSLR kharidna kya hua? Tum to debate mein magn ho gaye :lol:

 

[hseplak]

I just read couple of your earlier posts and realised D90 is a choice because of inbuilt AF system Have you decided on the lenses (without AF motor), if you decide not to use the kit lens? Give it a thought before you jump.

Hi, Yes body d90, thinking of one nifty-fifty lens wide angle, and i require something to zoom to begin with which lens do you suggest?.
Thanks.

 

[milestoneseeker]

Buy a good prime lens. I think AF-S 35 mm f/1.8 would be great as with the crop factor of 1.5, it will come to ~50 mm which is perfect. This should do good for most of portrait snaps. And it will be super quick.

As for the zoom, get a AF-S 55-200 mm f/4.5-5.6. Lenses faster than this will be much more expensive and am not sure if you should look at those at this stage.

Collectively, they will be with 25k, give or take.

More experienced folks may have morefurther insights.

 

[pupupuchi28]

Buy a good prime lens. I think AF-S 35 mm f/1.8 would be great as with the crop factor of 1.5, it will come to ~50 mm which is perfect. This should do good for most of portrait snaps. And it will be super quick.

As for the zoom, get a AF-S 55-200 mm f/4.5-5.6. Lenses faster than this will be much more expensive and am not sure if you should look at those at this stage.

Collectively, they will be with 25k, give or take.

I would go with this, with a slight change of adding basic AF S 18-55mm f 3.5-5.6. As a starter you may find yourself constrained with a prime (fixed focal length, does not zoom). To my understanding, 17-85mm (or may be 105mm) is the most used range for most of the people. I use this range for 80% of the time. To have flexibility of zooms @ this range is always good. You can always add a fixed apperture prime (f2.8 to f1.2) depending on your need, in future. Togather it will be 25K. Keep one thing in mind, these (18-55, 55-200mm) are basic lenses, so they will not outperform your expectation. BTW body (42K) + Lenses (25K) = 67K doesn't sound a budget DSLR set-up to me (pricewise) , picture quality wise it may not be very great, because of basic lenses.

If I were you, I would have gone for D5100 (29K body only, assuming you love Nikon) and good lenses (38K to spend, may be 17-50mm f2.8 + 55-250mm or ). Spend the same amount but on good lenses. Body is anyway going to be obsolete in 4-5 years (may be a bit longer) or you will cross the learning curve.

Nifty fifty: Standalone is a very good lens, but the actual field of view (what you frame with a 50mm on crop sensor body...D90, D5100 and similar) is very tight for a decent indoor (15 ft x 12 ft room). I can shoot only a full body, single person when the person is 15 ft away (potrait view) from the camera with a 50mm lens. You will have to keep these things in mind while selecting a lens. There are other confusin and critical parameters, which can be explained when you have taken the first step.

Best of luck!