Budget Speakers Auditioned-A noobs Take

[thevortex]

Thats very useful advice from Venkat. To add to that I would also have you add some Kishore Kumar and/or Yesudass songs. These are warm, strident yet mellifluous male voices. You should be able to hear them without a hint of chestiness in the very best system.

 

[gobble]

Do not know if it is okay to conclude in general about the magic of pairing of CA CDP and NAD amp, although I understand the reasoning behind this philosophy. For example, in my auditioning the CA 640c v2 sounded worse than a Nad c521 CDP with the Nad c320bee amp and same speakers, interconnect and speaker cables. It's needless to say that the nad 542 cdp does even better, but it's at a higher price point.

In my ears, the marantz 6002 cdp was definitely a better player than a CA 640c v2 CDP with the same nad amp.

Above is just my own opinion, based on careful auditioning with my own redbook CDs (with all the other equipments keeping exactly the same).

Gobble, is your statement above based on some audition, or just hearsay? I am just interested to know. I know we all hear differently.

Boy am I glad to hear your comments!! I heard the 640c v2 on a CA amp not the NAD. Just before that, I heard the CA DVD99. I instantly felt it was quite revealing in detail which I loved immensely. So I felt the cool detailed sound of the 640 would pair equally well with my NAD which is known to be a tad warm... I never heard the Marantz cd6002 but went for it based on the reviews and slightly more reasonable pricing.

Considering you have done a more systematic audition, I guess I should believe you. I just couldn't stop toying with the idea of pairing the 640c with the NAD even after my purchase I guess. Maybe someday a 640 owner
will volunteer to audition his player at my place, and I can bring my cd6002 to his place the next day for an A/B comparison ..

Cheers and Thanks for reassuring me one more time!

 

[neo]

Hey! Dinyaar.
I'm a NAD user & Ive always noticed the amp change its colour arnd a hours time when used continuously. A few more NAD users might also agree.
I guess this happens to a lot of amps but Ive noticed a huge positive diff on the NAD's
May be u should give it another audition & see it for your self.
Kudos again on helping magma.

Hey! Magama you've a great thread goin.I agree with venkat that your noob tag should go. Keep it up.
I hope beginners would research this thread & use it as a reference.
I hope you'll audition the Tannoy F1 customs.
All the best
Cheers.

Hi Ali,
I thought it was a 5 Inch driver but the link mentions 5.25 then 5.25 it is. No Ali its the same speaker.

Gobble, We heard the Image 25 with the Nad at about 5 PM and i thought it was the nad that made the speaker sound cloudy, then by about 6Pm we were with the MA and by 7PM Ali tried the I 15 which surprised me with the same Nad amplifier.
l i know its the same amp all thru as thats how i wanted it!!

Gopi, I liked both the speakers ie MA BR2 and Image 15 and wont really press Ali as both are good and i would like him to make up his mind. So the question of why i didnt recommend the MA to him and instead asked him to go with the I 15 does not arise.

Ali has many speakers to audition yet.
Boomarang also sells Dali so check if they have the new series.
RGDS

 

[persiflage]

For example, in my auditioning the CA 640c v2 sounded worse than a Nad c521 CDP with the Nad c320bee amp and same speakers, interconnect and speaker cables. It's needless to say that the nad 542 cdp does even better, but it's at a higher price point.

And my conclusion was just the reverse only difference to the above scenario being that the NAD amplification in question was a pre-power combo, not any of the 'bees'. I guess that's why they say that you should listen for yourself.

Instead of saying better or worse, let me use more descriptive terms to cut down on subjectivity. I prefer a bit of detail, instrument separation and 'bite', all of which were there. To elaborate, you get a sense of different instruments being played with space between them. Also, you hear real world effects like the guitarist's hand moving on the fretboard etc. etc. Also, the Cambridge soundstaged better, by a long shot.


Now, an entry level CA CDP when paired with a CA amp, while having all of the above 'desirable' qualities, becomes too 'dry' sounding with a little bit of digital sheen. In comparison, NAD amplification helps to cancel out the digititis a little bit. Hence I prefer this arrangement to a NAD-NAD one; for that matter even a CA-CA one.

NB: The 'digititis' comment applies only to entry level CDPs, not the 740c and 840c, which are in a different class altogether. If you haven't heard the 840c paired with a good tube amp, you haven't lived.

 

[thevortex]

Persiflage - it appears I havent lived

 

[gobble]

I prefer a bit of detail, instrument separation and 'bite', all of which were there. To elaborate, you get a sense of different instruments being played with space between them.

I heard and loved the separation too - on the 640c V2. Its there.

Cheers

 

[persiflage]

Persiflage - it appears I havent lived

What can I tell you man - 'twas one of those eureka moments that make this blasted expensive hobby of ours worthwhile. Let me put it another way - I thought I had died and gone to heaven

 

[magma]

hello all

heres a new update on some speaker auditions

ive auditioned some gear for a number of hours today ( got my wife compalining that i ate her sunday!)

heres the stuff i heard
Speakers : Monitor Audio Br2 ( yes again) and Quad 12L
Amps : Marantz and Rotel ( PM 7003 and Rotel 04)

VENUE : Boomerang, Mumbai

Spaekers : Monitor Audio BR2(again)
MRP : 19k
Amp : Marantz PM 7003
Source : Arcam CDP

Build quality : well i have already posted on the build quality of the MA BR2 in the earlier posts.

MY take on the Music: well the difference between this audition and the last were the AMP and CDP.the first audition had a NAD amp and CDP whereas this one used a Marantz amp and Arcam CDP as i ve specified.
As you recal i found the speakers more detailed (than all previous speakers i auditioned)on one side but a bit tiring to listen for long periods on the other.(i found the speaker bright on only 1 hindi track the last time)

This audition however was BRIGHT all the way!
a fellow member mentioned that i may find this speaker coupled with a marantz bright-He was spot on.!

i stopped the audition on the 4th track - hotel california - Eagles.
Yes the sound was detailed but i found to difficult to listen to the speaker with this amp pairing for more than 15-20mins

i strongly suggest that buyers for this speaker should consider a more laid back amp.

(this does not mean marantz is a bad amp-on the contrary i found it more detailed than a NAD which seemed cloudy against a marantz now..
only the marantz BR2 combo does not sit well with me.
This speaker needs serious taming!!

make no mistake im still considering a MA BR2 ( yes also the PSB )for myself but with a NAD pairing-so i dont write it off completely

 

[magma]

Since im on the topic
heres my take of a NAD against a MARANTZ

i found the marantz highly detailed(much more than a NAD).It hides nothing ! its a tad lively,which i like(compared to a NAD).
the build is superb too(slightly better than a NAD) and so are the terminals(however Mr. Vaze adviced me against a 4001 which he thought was a small amp for some bookshelves).
This amp with a slightly laidbackspeaker like a warfedale,Quad Polk or even a PSB would do

NAD as ive said before may appear cloudy in front of a marantz ,i find that it rolls of the high frequncies a tad bit- This works for me and thats precisely why i like it.i also find it does add maybe a little more weight to the vocals rather than a marantz
Also a NAD 325 costs less than a similarly speced marantz. so this is a deciding factor as well.

All in all the marantz plays what you give it(like a good amp), may be a tad livelier and detailed , the NAd is slightly cloudy but seems more soothing and laid back.
its a personal preference i guess

Heres My take on a Rotel
well this is the same as marantz, but is a ta on the brighter side.
but wierdly the vocals have more weight too however not as smooth as a NAD
Please note this is the entry level Rotel and i was assured that higher models would be smoother an less bright.

please do understand : im a novice and my reviews are my own, i advice everyone reading this to have his/her own opinion after hearing the gear only

 

[magma]

Speakers : Quad 12L
MRP : 38k
Amp : Marantz PM 7003
Source : Arcam CDP

Now this was an audition i had been waiting for . i had heard so much about these speakers ( and their younger brothers the 11L).Glad to say they didnt disappoint.

Build Quality : the build is excellent. Real wood ! no cheap laminate! Balck glossy piano finish.nice grill. However these are mostly availble in black ( other colours are difficult to find.
the terminals however are not upto the mark for the price you pay for this speaker. Though they are nicely plated and sturdy enough.

this speaker can be Bi wired and Bi amped ( diff amp for tweeters and diff for the mid basses)

My take : This is the most detailed speaker ive heard.Yes more than the BR2 however the good thing is that this detail does not come at the price of listening fatigue as is the case with the BR2.
the detail is umm.. " musical"
i could for the first time hear the breath of the singer and the fingers as they move through different guitar strings(not the plucking of the strings)
vocals were good however i still favour those of the PSB.
i guess i would favour a quad with a NAD ( some would call that dumb..so im dumb)

parting thoughts
After seeing the effect of a marantz im willing to bet that the PSB ( image b15) might sound more detailed when coupled with a marantz.Maybe not like the quad but at least a bit more than with a NAD .

Another thing is that though the quad was good in many respects somehow i didnt think it was worth double the price of what i would pay for (say the PSB,Kef or BR2-paired correctly ofcourse).
as i said it was highly detailed and muscial but not so far ahead of the BR2 NAd pairing or the PSB image b15

im a person who would listen to music even while reading so that extra detail i feel could either be system overload for me or a waste
(Guys dont scoff at me for that)

Next i have learned that the quad (unlike the other budget speakers) will sound sweeter as you go up the AMP ladder.
Good speakers should be this way
i mean with a better amp these speakers will sound even better (im not so sure the sound of budget speakers will change much as you go up the amp ladder)
This would excite many/most buyers.(and it should!) However if im gonna stick to my old amp for a Loooong time(which i am! cant spend again!!!) i would not like paying the premium for this quality.
(thats just me i suppose)

Those were the auditions for the day.
Thanks for reading

i hope to audition the Tannoy F1 custom , MS and Misson soon
i think the mission will be the next few days

 

[Asit]

magma, are those Quad speakers 12L2 or 12L? The 12L2 and 11L2 are the new incarnations of the older 11L and 12L.

 

[magma]

magma, are those Quad speakers 12L2 or 12L? The 12L2 and 11L2 are the new incarnations of the older 11L and 12L.

they are the older model
the 12 L
the newer ones are 4-6 k more expensive. They have improvements on the tweeter but most of them are more to do with the build rather than the drivers or crossovers

 

[biyer]

Hey Magma hr8 reviews.Very clear. Could you please include norge and pulz to your list. I know they are Indian brands but many of us would like to know how they fare.

I will be auditioning quad 11l2 , diamond 9.1 and 9.2 in the coming weekend.

 

[neo]

Hey! magma info on the cables & interconnects used would also help.
Good goin keep it up
All the best
Cheers

 

[arun malur]

Speakers : Quad 12L
MRP : 38k
Amp : Marantz PM 7003
Source : Arcam CDP



Build Quality : the build is excellent. Real wood ! no cheap laminate! Balck glossy piano finish.nice grill. However these are mostly availble in black other colours are difficult to find.
the terminals however are not upto the mark for the price you pay for this speaker. Though they are nicely plated and sturdy enough.

this speaker can be Bi wired and Bi amped ( diff amp for tweeters and diff for the mid basses)

My take : This is the most detailed speaker ive heard.Yes more than the BR2 however the good thing is that this detail does not come at the price of listening fatigue as is the case with the BR2.
the detail is umm.. " musical"
i could for the first time hear the breath of the singer and the fingers as they move through different guitar strings(not the plucking of the strings)
vocals were good however i still favour those of the PSB.
i guess i would favour a quad with a NAD ( some would call that dumb..so im dumb)

i have learned that the quad (unlike the other budget speakers) will sound sweeter as you go up the AMP ladder.
Good speakers should be this way
i mean with a better amp these speakers will sound even better (im not so sure the sound of budget speakers will change much as you go up the amp ladder)
This would excite many/most buyers.(and it should!) However if im gonna stick to my old amp for a Loooong time(which i am! cant spend again!!!) i would not like paying the premium for this quality.
(thats just me i suppose)

Yes Magma, your observations are spot on. I have a pair of Quad 12 L2s and running it for the past four months, and every time I start listening, it is as if something new is discovered in the music which I had not heard before and absolutely no fatigue. It does require a pretty long running-in period (many may not agree) but it's worth it. The binding posts are not Gold plated but then it is sturdy enough for normal usage. Partnering it with a good Amp.will ensure musical bliss for a long time indeed!!!!

 

[anm]

Magma, which amp do you have currently?

 

[magma]

@anm
AKAI

i dont have any int amp yet. i am in the process of building my system from scratch

@neo
request noted
will post more about the cables used from now.

its only that in many auditions the cables were so expensive i wasnt bothered about them
now the last audition at Boomerang i think the interconnects cost 50K or was it the speaker wire. dinyaar knows

also i think dinyaar has posted on the speaker wire and interconnects during the NAD psb ma auditions

 

[dinyaar]

Hi Guys,
Regarding cables .
At lakozy the IC was supra Biline, Speaker cable was a VDH clear water and power cords were Supra Lo Rad 2.5 sq.mm connected thru a Supra distribution Box.
At Boomerang it was (most likely) Transparent Music Link Super as the IC, Chord Silver screen as the speaker cable, and the stock pwer cord of the Marantz was used directly from wall outlets.
At Designer Audio I presume Kshitij probably used DAC cables as thats the only one he endorses.
Was only present at lakozy so the other two auditions may not be spot on but these are the most likely candidates as i am pretty familiar with both the vendors and their preferences in cables.

All cables apart from the transparent are what is used along with budget to midrange HIFI.
Rgds

 

[neo]

Yes i had read what cables were used at lakozy & could assume what gratin had used.
Magma do you intend to buy such cables? as cables can make a diff to set up. You should also consider the cables while auditioning i'm sure Dinyaar & other in house experts will throw more light.
All the best.
Cheers

 

[magma]

nope
im not planning to spend so much on cables.
Actually my cable budget has already been eaten since im not looking at warfedales anymore.
all dinyaars fault

ill probably just get some entry level interconnects and speaker wire to start of with and then upgrade later