I would be very interested in this project of yours ! am looking for something like that which can accomodate a 12" arm
Building a Plinth for Lenco L75
- Thread starter jls001
- Start date
I would be very interested in this project of yours ! am looking for something like that which can accomodate a 12" arm
4 mm is the size of the thread on the underside of the turntable's top plate into which the four threaded bolt screws in. The bolt holds the suspension spring on which the turntable rests (in original plinth). I am not re-using the spring suspension, or any sort of rubber mushroom suspension. Turntable will mate directly with plinth. I just want to re-use the same threaded hole to secure the turntable to all the layers of the plinth. So going with larger thread size is not an option.
Some more progress report:
Got my new tonearm (Origin Live Silver Mark III). It was stuck for many days at Customs.
Some pictures of the work in progress:
1. Here's the underbelly of the Lenco L75 showing tonearm mounting hole, and the arm lift mechanism. Since I am no longer using the stock Lenco arm, the arm lift mechanism has to go. The arm hole also needs to go as it increases height by about 4 mm. One needs the bare hole on the turntable's top plate to mount new arm. Depending on which arm to use, the hole may have to be resized. In my case, the hole was more than enough.
By jls001 at 2012-03-20
2. Here's the underbelly with the unneeded parts stripped. Note that even nut shown in the upper right hand corner of the picture has to be taken off as this raised the level of the new arm to unacceptable levels.
By jls001 at 2012-03-20
3. The Lenco mounted on its new home. The plinth is not yet glued. This is a just test fitting. There is a screw that protrudes from the top plate, preventing the turntable from sitting flush on the plinth. Since this screw is holding something useful and could not removed, a hole was drilled where it hit the second layer of the plinth, and the turntable sat snugly on the topmost layer. The choice of 10 mm layer for the topmost layer turned out to be perfect. I was initially a bit apprehensive that 9 mm would be the more appropriate thickness, but 10 mm works just fine.
By jls001 at 2012-03-20
4. Here's the new tonearm. I had to use a spacer (actually a spare nut) between the headshell and the cartridge to make the arm level better. After this pic was shot, I inserted one more layer of spacer to make the arm more levelled. That's about 3 to 4 mm of spacers.
By jls001 at 2012-03-20
Cartridge used for testing was my ole faithful (Shure M44-7). I dialled in the mounting weight as best as my ears could tell (don't have a fancy digital gauge, and the tonearm doesn't have inbuilt scale for the weight setting).
First impression is that the soundstage had suddenly widened. I think the depth remains almost same as before.
Second impression is the sense of relentless thrust that this turntable has. PRaT, they call it
May be I should call this one Thrust.
The third thing that has changed is the much greater level of details that the arm gouges from the record.
Will try better cartridges and fine tune the settings.
Next step: make mounting hole for the SME 3012 which will be the second arm on this 'table, then glue up the plinth.
An aside: This plinth is heavy and large. My current rack is clearly incapable of taking its weight (and it's too small). So a future project is a sturdy DIY rack. I am thinking of using 4 threaded SS/brass rods and a cocktail of sandstone (or slate), MDF and Magma's special brew compound. Thermocole layer is also a candidate at this juncture.
Got my new tonearm (Origin Live Silver Mark III). It was stuck for many days at Customs.
Some pictures of the work in progress:
1. Here's the underbelly of the Lenco L75 showing tonearm mounting hole, and the arm lift mechanism. Since I am no longer using the stock Lenco arm, the arm lift mechanism has to go. The arm hole also needs to go as it increases height by about 4 mm. One needs the bare hole on the turntable's top plate to mount new arm. Depending on which arm to use, the hole may have to be resized. In my case, the hole was more than enough.
By jls001 at 2012-03-20
2. Here's the underbelly with the unneeded parts stripped. Note that even nut shown in the upper right hand corner of the picture has to be taken off as this raised the level of the new arm to unacceptable levels.
By jls001 at 2012-03-20
3. The Lenco mounted on its new home. The plinth is not yet glued. This is a just test fitting. There is a screw that protrudes from the top plate, preventing the turntable from sitting flush on the plinth. Since this screw is holding something useful and could not removed, a hole was drilled where it hit the second layer of the plinth, and the turntable sat snugly on the topmost layer. The choice of 10 mm layer for the topmost layer turned out to be perfect. I was initially a bit apprehensive that 9 mm would be the more appropriate thickness, but 10 mm works just fine.
By jls001 at 2012-03-20
4. Here's the new tonearm. I had to use a spacer (actually a spare nut) between the headshell and the cartridge to make the arm level better. After this pic was shot, I inserted one more layer of spacer to make the arm more levelled. That's about 3 to 4 mm of spacers.
By jls001 at 2012-03-20
Cartridge used for testing was my ole faithful (Shure M44-7). I dialled in the mounting weight as best as my ears could tell (don't have a fancy digital gauge, and the tonearm doesn't have inbuilt scale for the weight setting).
First impression is that the soundstage had suddenly widened. I think the depth remains almost same as before.
Second impression is the sense of relentless thrust that this turntable has. PRaT, they call it
May be I should call this one Thrust.The third thing that has changed is the much greater level of details that the arm gouges from the record.
Will try better cartridges and fine tune the settings.
Next step: make mounting hole for the SME 3012 which will be the second arm on this 'table, then glue up the plinth.
An aside: This plinth is heavy and large. My current rack is clearly incapable of taking its weight (and it's too small). So a future project is a sturdy DIY rack. I am thinking of using 4 threaded SS/brass rods and a cocktail of sandstone (or slate), MDF and Magma's special brew compound. Thermocole layer is also a candidate at this juncture.
sachu888
Well-Known Member
Hi Joshua,
plinth looks very good.I would suggest you to make a wall mount shelf for TT.
Regards,
Sachin
plinth looks very good.I would suggest you to make a wall mount shelf for TT.
Regards,
Sachin
My front wall is wall-to-wall window. Unless I make shelf on one side wall behind left speaker, there is no real scope. But I will have to think of this seriously now. Thanks for the suggestion. More gear, more space needed.
Cork is fairly hard compared to thermocol. Thermocal should be better at absorbing vibrations. Also, cheaply and easily available in large sheets of different thicknesses. I honestly don't know where to source cork sheets. Anyway, it is a mere idea for now. I believe magma has implemented a composite layer of granite, MDF and thermocol for one of the forumers (power amp base, I think).
That looks good Joshua, how does it sound compared to the TD 124? The Lenco is supposed to be more lively while the Thorens is crisp and detailed. What cart have you planned for the OL?
This might be of some use in addition to whatever you got when you bought the arm Installing Rega and Origin Live Tonearms | A Short Guide by Mark Baker | Vinyl Engine
Regards
This might be of some use in addition to whatever you got when you bought the arm Installing Rega and Origin Live Tonearms | A Short Guide by Mark Baker | Vinyl Engine
Regards
Initial impression compared to the 124 armed with a vintage 3009/Shure M97xE is that the Lenco+OL Silver+Shure M44-7 combo has a much greater sense of urgency. In my excitement, I didn't even try a strobe to check if the speed is fine. I tried both 33 and 45 rpm records. Also, the soundstage of the new kid is way bigger. And detail retrieval is in another league. But the setup is hardly optimised. There is a glare in the highs - I am not yet sure if it is because of the cartridge being used, or bad arm setup. It could as well be both.
Two things that need optimisation are VTA and VTF. Right now, I am using my eyes and ears to get what I think is the best VTA and VTF, respectively. There is not much room for height adjustment and I have started thinking in terms of machining some kind of an arm mount to lower the height further.
The lows and mids sound fine.
At this point, I like to think that most of the improvements are due to the arm. This can be proved or disproved by making an arm board for the 124 to fit the OL Silver. I furiously dreamed last night on how to mod my 124's arm board so that it can also accept the OL.
Or I will simply make a new arm board instead of risking screwing up a perfectly good one. I do have some MDF and plywood pieces left over from the plinth build. Let me check if the thicknesses would be suitable.
I will swap out cartridge tonight (put M97xE on the Lenco). Later, I will try my two V15s - one with Ed Saunders stylus and one NOS. I like to do all fooling around with the M44-7 as I have 2 of them with a stylus to spare.
Eventually, I would love to buy a Denon DL 103 PRO or a DL 103 SA. And in the very far future, a nice mid-range Benz cartridge, say a Glider, or an Ortofon Kontrapunkt, or something nice in this class, would round off things very nicely.
And thanks for the link to Mark Baker's article. He is one person I hold in high esteem.
Ah that pretty much mirrors what I've read bout the SMEs being more relaxed and laid back and the OLs digging out more detail and sounding more driven. sounds like a good set up you got going!
There are plenty of mount adaptors for the SME slot to fit a rega type arm ebay or even the origin live site I think has adaptor plates. Will give you the flexibility to change easily
Regards
Torque ain't cheap but it sure knocks yer socks off
There are plenty of mount adaptors for the SME slot to fit a rega type arm ebay or even the origin live site I think has adaptor plates. Will give you the flexibility to change easily
Regards
Torque ain't cheap but it sure knocks yer socks off
Quick updates:
1. Out comes the Shure M44-7 and in goes the Shure M97xE into the arm. Glares in the highs are gone. So the stylus of my M44-7 has a problem. Overall, sound is improved substantially. One area where there is a noticeable difference is in better defined placement of images and in improved layering. The guitar notes in the intro of James Taylor's "Her Town Too" are airier, and I can now hear that there are two sets of backing vocals on the song. Though the backing vocals occupy the same center channel in the mix as the lead vocals, it is easy to discern that the ones that sing tenor are more recessed in the mix. BTW, James Taylor's Dad Loves His Work album is a very nicely mastered recording - in my books it is in the same league as Steely Dan's Aja or Dire Straits' Brothers In Arms. Grab a copy if you find one. But I digress Since I am already digressing, let me add that the M97xE lives up to it's maker's billing of it being an audiophile cartridge. I now believe that it is, in the right arm.
2. A mat borrowed from my benched TD 160 added to the height of the record surface. I think the arm is now as good as level. But, and it is a big BUT here, there is hardly any spindle length left to mount record weight after a record has been placed. This matters when playing warped records.
I am still thinking in terms of shims/washers to lower the cartridge height as lowering the arm at the arm mounting point is going to be one hell of a complicated maneouvre. Here's a well made shim with in-built "spikes": http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=811.msg56156#msg56156. I think one can fashion something similar with a 4-5 mm thick aluminium or brass plate and three M3 or M4 carbon steel grub screws filed to a sharp point.
1. Out comes the Shure M44-7 and in goes the Shure M97xE into the arm. Glares in the highs are gone. So the stylus of my M44-7 has a problem. Overall, sound is improved substantially. One area where there is a noticeable difference is in better defined placement of images and in improved layering. The guitar notes in the intro of James Taylor's "Her Town Too" are airier, and I can now hear that there are two sets of backing vocals on the song. Though the backing vocals occupy the same center channel in the mix as the lead vocals, it is easy to discern that the ones that sing tenor are more recessed in the mix. BTW, James Taylor's Dad Loves His Work album is a very nicely mastered recording - in my books it is in the same league as Steely Dan's Aja or Dire Straits' Brothers In Arms. Grab a copy if you find one. But I digress
Since I am already digressing, let me add that the M97xE lives up to it's maker's billing of it being an audiophile cartridge. I now believe that it is, in the right arm.2. A mat borrowed from my benched TD 160 added to the height of the record surface. I think the arm is now as good as level. But, and it is a big BUT here, there is hardly any spindle length left to mount record weight after a record has been placed. This matters when playing warped records.
I am still thinking in terms of shims/washers to lower the cartridge height as lowering the arm at the arm mounting point is going to be one hell of a complicated maneouvre. Here's a well made shim with in-built "spikes": http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=811.msg56156#msg56156. I think one can fashion something similar with a 4-5 mm thick aluminium or brass plate and three M3 or M4 carbon steel grub screws filed to a sharp point.
Fashioned an arm board for the TD 124 to fit the Origin Live Silver arm. Original arm board for the SME 3009 is 10 mm thick and made of wood. The only 10 mm material I have at hand is acrylic sheet. I don't have the tools or the skill to cut and drill holes on acrylic so I ended up using high density fiber board of 12 mm thickness.
This was a good opportunity to use the jig saw I had bought long ago to make plinth for the L75. One side of the arm board has a 30 degree cut. So I adjusted the jig saw's base to 30 degree and started cutting. The first 5 cms or so went well and the cut was fairly straight. Thereafter, it started weaving like it has had much spirit to imbibe. This is the first time I ever used a jig saw, and obviously the skill was badly wanting. However the spirit carried the day and I ended up with an amatuerish looking arm board with wavy edges. Later I discovered that the angle of the jig saw's blade bents which led to the weave. So my lack of skill wasn't to blame entirely.
Luckily I had put a buffer of about 1 mm on each side while cutting. So I used a wood file and filed like crazy and ended up with an arm board that approximated fairly closely the original arm board. The next task was to drill the screw holes. I messed up one and ended up with one unused holes. The other two fitted perfectly.
The last task was to drill a one inch hole for the arm. Luckily I had at hand a round drill slightly larger than an inch. My protractor for this was a piece of paper with a straight line drawn across the length of the paper. At one end, I made a hole large enough to fit the spindle, measured exactly 223 mm from the center of the spindle hole and simply cut it off at 223 mm. Marked the 223 mm distance on the board, drilled a 2 mm hole for guide, and later drilled the 1+ inch hole. El simplo.
A test fitting showed that it fitted well. The only hitch was that the height of the arm was high, owing to the thicker material used (12 mm v/s 10 mm of original arm board). So the cartridge end of the arm drooped a bit. I removed one spacer I was using at the cartridge end, and the VTA became almost perfect. I used a stupid protractor to quickly align the cartridge.
Right now I am playing my perennial favourite Dire Straits' Brothers In Arms, and it sounding rather good. Will try refining the setup later.
Gerry_the_Merry
Well-Known Member
Awesome read
Sir, thank you. Your planned visit has not materialised yet. When are you dropping in?
Anyway, I could not sit still with the wrong thickness of the arm board gnawing at the back of my mind. So took it out again from the 124 and marked approx 1.5 mm at the tonearm hole end, and filed away to glory again
Final thickness = 10 mm, though I must admit the thickness is not very uniform since it was filed by hand. Removed the last remaining shim between the headshell and cartridge. A test fit showed that now the cartridge end is higher
Rechecked the thickness of the original arm board and discovered to my dismay that it is actually 11 mm, NOT 10 mm! I should have measured more carefully. The damage is done. I will make one more arm board of proper thickness. Fortunately I have some MDF left over.
Another day. Another lesson learned
Gerry_the_Merry
Well-Known Member
Must absolutely make time for the visit soon. Just weighed down temporarily with some work. Limiting myself to reading...
I am fascinated by the idea of VTAF. It's a must upgrade in future. He claims substantial sonic improvement besides the convenience of on-the-fly VTA.
I know I am digressing from completing the Lenco build, but correctly mounting the Silver arm on the 124 was too interesting a challenge not to do right. So here are some more pictures of the making a new arm board.
1) The original arm board for the SME 3009 (black one) side by side with the cutout for the Silver.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
2) A closeup of the new armboard showing one screw hole. Note the tapered router bit which is used to widen the top of the screw hole.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
3) The underside of the arm board showing the 30 degree bevel cut. I had this board cut by the guy who had cut the L75 plinth, but it was not at all satisfactory. I ended up sanding it quite a bit. I avoided cutting it at home mainly to avoid the copious amount of saw dust it generated, but I ended generating quite a bit today too. The bevel cut is tricky to get right.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
4) Fix the board in its place and use the "El Simplo" protractor. Forget the Dr Feickart protractor. This works just fine.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
5) X Marks The Spot
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
6) Drill a guide hole, 2-3 mm diameter to ease final hole drilling
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
7) Enlarge the hole with a 4-5 mm drill bit. Drill through the board. You will need this guide hole to drill from reverse side.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
8) Drilling with the one inch drill - drill about half way, and continue and complete drilling from reverse side.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
9) From the reverse side. Saw dust, saw dust and more saw dust. You can save some in case in you need to touch up some blemish, or fill a wrongly drilled hole (as in my case. Again:lol
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
10) Test fit:
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
11) About 2 mm gap, meaning a 1 mm gap all around:
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
12) On it goes onto the TT. The arm is level. No shim/washer whatever at either end.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
13) Closeup of the base. Note the extra hole in the foreground which I managed to drill despite very careful measurements.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
14) This was how the ver 1.0 looked after my expert ministrations of the wood file:
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
Right now Ms Gardot is thrilling me with her My One And Only Thrill. I think this board deserves to be painted silver mist (as that's the only can I have as of now).
1) The original arm board for the SME 3009 (black one) side by side with the cutout for the Silver.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
2) A closeup of the new armboard showing one screw hole. Note the tapered router bit which is used to widen the top of the screw hole.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
3) The underside of the arm board showing the 30 degree bevel cut. I had this board cut by the guy who had cut the L75 plinth, but it was not at all satisfactory. I ended up sanding it quite a bit. I avoided cutting it at home mainly to avoid the copious amount of saw dust it generated, but I ended generating quite a bit today too. The bevel cut is tricky to get right.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
4) Fix the board in its place and use the "El Simplo" protractor. Forget the Dr Feickart protractor. This works just fine.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
5) X Marks The Spot
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
6) Drill a guide hole, 2-3 mm diameter to ease final hole drilling
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
7) Enlarge the hole with a 4-5 mm drill bit. Drill through the board. You will need this guide hole to drill from reverse side.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
8) Drilling with the one inch drill - drill about half way, and continue and complete drilling from reverse side.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
9) From the reverse side. Saw dust, saw dust and more saw dust. You can save some in case in you need to touch up some blemish, or fill a wrongly drilled hole (as in my case. Again:lol
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
10) Test fit:
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
11) About 2 mm gap, meaning a 1 mm gap all around:
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
12) On it goes onto the TT. The arm is level. No shim/washer whatever at either end.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
13) Closeup of the base. Note the extra hole in the foreground which I managed to drill
despite very careful measurements.
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
14) This was how the ver 1.0 looked after my expert ministrations of the wood file:
By jls001 at 2012-03-24
Right now Ms Gardot is thrilling me with her My One And Only Thrill. I think this board deserves to be painted silver mist (as that's the only can I have as of now).
Last edited:
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