can this denon drive usher tiny dancer?

[himadri]

Hi
Im thinking of upgrading my Definitive technology BP7004s to the usher tiny dancer Be718.My present amplification is a denon integrated PMA2000ivr rated at 80 watts 8ohms/160 watts 4ohms.Its denon's highest integrated, mosfet, pushpull , so called hi-current amplifier and weighs 25 kgs.My rest of the gear consists of denon CDP700AE and QED cables and interconnects.My room size is 12'x14', and my musical taste ranges from jazz, jazzrock,classic rock, some blues and hindustani classical(dhrupad).
Gone through the whole gamut of discussions on the amps for ushers and I get the impression that my denon might just be underpowered to exploit the tiny dancer's full potential.On the other hand hand considering my smallish room size , the slightly forward but detailed sounding denon might just be the right match for the slightly recessed usher.My speakers are 1.5' from back wall, 2.5' from side walls, 7 feet apart and the listening position 7.5 feet from the speakers.
Shall appreciate any input from you all.
cheers
Himadri

 

[dinyaar]

HI
YES IT WILL DRIVE THE USHER.

Rgds

 

[himadri]

thanks dinyaar
just wondering whether the usher's slightly lowish sensitivity around (84/85 db) be an issue considering that the denon is rated for 80 watts only where as the recommendation is higher power for the ushers (around 150 watts)
cheers
himadri

 

[dinyaar]

Hi
This Denon is a good integrated amp. It will handle the usher for sure.
Its not just the 80W that matter and IMO this will be more than adequate for your requirement.

Hear it for yourself and decide. Paper specs sometimes dont reveal all.
Rgds

 

[himadri]

Thanks again Dinyaar
I also have the same feeling considering the ease with which it drives the deftechs in my system. Just that carrying the amp to Bangalore and testing it at Sridhar's place is not possible as i live in Chattisgarh and there are no ushers within 200 kms around that I know of. So I have to go blind as I have done in my purchases earlier and trust my judgement and experienced advice from you guys.
regards and
cheers
Himadri

 

[dinyaar]

Thanks again Dinyaar
I also have the same feeling considering the ease with which it drives the deftechs in my system. Just that carrying the amp to Bangalore and testing it at Sridhar's place is not possible as i live in Chattisgarh and there are no ushers within 200 kms around that I know of. So I have to go blind as I have done in my purchases earlier and trust my judgement and experienced advice from you guys.
regards and
cheers
Himadri

Maybe best option is to re confirm with Sridhar.
I have heard your speaker with many amps starting from 60 W all the way to 300 W and they did not appear to be difficult loads.
The 90 W accuphase or the 100 W Sim drove the speaker beautifully in a largish room so I dont see a problem for an amp like your denon that is well built.
The tonal match is a bit of a shot in the dark. Never heard this combo as we are all biased against anything Denon in HIFI
Rgds

 

[himadri]

Thanks dinyaar again
Yes, the tonal match is an issue that I have to check again with Sridhar.I can understand the lack of audiophile information about the denon .But from my experience, the denon unravels a lot of details for an amplifier in its price range and holds its fort against similarly priced Nads, Marantzes and rotels though in the process it is slightly forward sounding. In fact in comparision to my brother's odyssey khartago extreme driving the snell c7s ,the denon really dos'nt suffer much.
thanks
cheers
himadri

 

[lifewater]

Yes they will drive the speakers. No need to worry. loudness depends on sensitivity not on watts of power

 

[afj]

i think the denon (though able to drive the speakers) would be a very weak link in your system. for speakers of that quality you need a better amp

 

[marsilians]

Hi
Im thinking of upgrading my Definitive technology BP7004s to the usher tiny dancer Be718.My present amplification is a denon integrated PMA2000ivr rated at 80 watts 8ohms/160 watts 4ohms.Its denon's highest integrated, mosfet, pushpull , so called hi-current amplifier and weighs 25 kgs.My rest of the gear consists of denon CDP700AE and QED cables and interconnects.My room size is 12'x14', and my musical taste ranges from jazz, jazzrock,classic rock, some blues and hindustani classical(dhrupad).
Gone through the whole gamut of discussions on the amps for ushers and I get the impression that my denon might just be underpowered to exploit the tiny dancer's full potential.On the other hand hand considering my smallish room size , the slightly forward but detailed sounding denon might just be the right match for the slightly recessed usher.My speakers are 1.5' from back wall, 2.5' from side walls, 7 feet apart and the listening position 7.5 feet from the speakers.
Shall appreciate any input from you all.
cheers
Himadri

The denon can drive the Ushers, however its doubtful to operate at 160watts against 4 ohm impedance. Usually 80W will net out about 120-130 watts max unless its a very premium integrated and even then it will top about 150. Something to keep in mind.

 

[sidvee]

My humble opinion - The question should not be if the denon will drive the ushers, but how well will it do so. Without having heard the denon I am in no position to answer that question, but I can confidently state - having tested 3 different amps with the be718 - that this speaker loves good quality power and in my smallish room (14'x12') I felt that 150 watts at 8 ohms (240 watts at 4ohms) of class AB from the Odsyssey Stratos extreme was barely adequate to drive these speakers.
I also tried a digitial switching Belcanto S300 (150 watts in 8 ohms and 300 watts in 4 ohms) but was not at all impressed.
My 60 watt tube amplifiers did a decent job at low level listening but failed on large dynamics and deep bass.
So if low level listening is desired then moderate power is fine but if one wants to get the max performance out of these then a big brute of an amp. is required.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Recently I tried Cambridge Audio 840w (200 wpc at 8 ohms) power amp along with pre of my Ayon CD-1s CDP to drive BE-718.

The performance was ok. Only in high volume, sometimes I felt that more power could have been better to produce tighter bass. But at moderate level of listening in my room (15 x 12 ft plus 11 x 10 ft in L shape) it gave decent performance. Although in texture, CA power amp could not match with my Leben amp.

In case of tube amp (it happens to be Leben 300xs 15 wpc) even at low to moderate level listening the bass performance is in loose side. But after the amp getting heated for about 2-3 hrs, the bass performance improves to somehow accepatble level. Of course, for Indian classical, Tagore songs etc. this combination is perfectly ok and really enjoyable.

 

[sidvee]

Recently I tried Cambridge Audio 840w (200 wpc at 8 ohms) power amp along with pre of my Ayon CD-1s CDP to drive BE-718.

The performance was ok. Only in high volume, sometimes I felt that more power could have been better to produce tighter bass. But at moderate level of listening in my room (15 x 12 ft plus 11 x 10 ft in L shape) it gave decent performance. Although in texture, CA power amp could not match with my Leben amp.

In case of tube amp (it happens to be Leben 300xs 15 wpc) even at low to moderate level listening the bass performance is in loose side. But after the amp getting heated for about 2-3 hrs, the bass performance improves to somehow accepatble level. Of course, for Indian classical, Tagore songs etc. this combination is perfectly ok and really enjoyable.

Interesting observation Amit - I suspect that the 718 mates well mostly with high power class A/AB amps. and other technologies (especially digital switching) don't seem to work optimally.
It is definitely a picky speaker but when matched correctly, performs superlatively.
Cheers
Sid

 

[Dr.Bass]

YES, The Denon will drive the speakers well.

 

[himadri]

Thanks Dr Bass,sid,amit,marsilians,afj,lifewater
sorry to respond so late to your posts (was caught up).I get the impression that though the denon will work for now, but sometime in the future i shall have to upgrade the amp to get the full benefit of the speaker.well ,thats the fun isnt it ? this constant urge to upgrade everything(except----)? .Just one more thing,it seems the mini dancer1 is an easier load to drive,will that help somewhat? if the price differential between the tiny dancer + stands and the mini dancer1 is manageable.
cheers
himadri

 

[himadri]

Well I had to bump this thread as the Usher Mini Dancer1s has been installed because thats what I finally went for considering that its easier to drive.The Ushers are settling down nicely and have mated quite well with my denon pma2000ivr + denon dcd700ae and are sounding smooth,sweet and reasonably detailed, a definite upgrade from my deftechs (BP7004) .Luckily it there is a tonal match, the brassy top of the deftechs is gone(the tweeters are doing the job) and surprisingly great bass too.If very loud music is not your cup of tea, then an entry level electronics system based around the mini dancer1 may be a real cost effective high end audio buy.
refer the six moons Helsinki show review at 6moons industry features: Helsinki HighEnd Show 2009 which also reviews the mini dancer1 on the same lines.Of course my denon is not really entry level considering that its denon's highest integrated.
The greatest benefit of this upgrade is that my harsher CDs which I was reluctant to listen on my deftech + denon combo now sounds smoother and listeneable.
cheers
himadri

 

[Asit]

Hi Himadri,
Congratulations on your new speakers. Are they with the new diamond tweeters? The new version has incorporated some change in the crossover too. I have heard the older version (although heavily modded) at Sangram's and the new version at Vasu's place.

Regards.

 

[anm]

congrats Himadri. I went over the entire thread and I could not contribute in time.
There were only two possibilities, and given that you already had that denon.
1. you would like the denon
2. you would not like the denon

So in worst case, you would need to replace your denon. So even if people here said it would match, or would not match, did not make any difference. You had nothing to loose. So just buy the mini dancers, run it with denon, and upgrade if you didn't feel like.
Good that it turned out well, but I am sure upgrade bug will hit you soon on the amp side of things

 

[iaudio]

Well I had to bump this thread as the Usher Mini Dancer1s has been installed because thats what I finally went for considering that its easier to drive.The Ushers are settling down nicely and have mated quite well with my denon pma2000ivr + denon dcd700ae and are sounding smooth,sweet and reasonably detailed, a definite upgrade from my deftechs (BP7004) .Luckily it there is a tonal match, the brassy top of the deftechs is gone(the tweeters are doing the job) and surprisingly great bass too.If very loud music is not your cup of tea, then an entry level electronics system based around the mini dancer1 may be a real cost effective high end audio buy.
refer the six moons Helsinki show review at 6moons industry features: Helsinki HighEnd Show 2009 which also reviews the mini dancer1 on the same lines.Of course my denon is not really entry level considering that its denon's highest integrated.
The greatest benefit of this upgrade is that my harsher CDs which I was reluctant to listen on my deftech + denon combo now sounds smoother and listeneable.
cheers
himadri

Himadri, congrats on the MD1. I have heard it ARN bangalore, and really liked the way it reproduced the tracks from my favorite 'Mandolin' CD. Excellent speed, detail and tone. IIRC, Sridhar was driving the MD1's with Ayon CD1,Prism Sound pre, Odeyssey Khartago power amps in a largish room.

 

[iaudio]

Repeat post.Sorry.