Coimbatore HFV Nano Meet

@titus,very interesting read on the audire trip,and the last IO2 "speshal" looks mouthwateringly,awesome.shame about the mismatch of amps,that sure would have yielded a different/?better picture.kudos man,u are slowly becoming hifivisons very own "golden eared" boy :eek:hyeah:!!!!
 
Sunday morning, and I awoke after a fitful sleep, as the street below my room window never seemed to sleep! Today I had decided to head over to Santhoshs place by bus. The buses in Tamil Nadu are a welcome relief after the ones in Kerala driven by wannabe Schumachers whose acceleration is matched only by the rate at which bus fare is hiked in the state. Even Suri has a hard time keeping up with them in his V-tec:p

I reached my destination by 1030am. Please note, we had in mind a 5 hour session.

Santhosh welcomed me in and took me to the upper floor of his house which is his den-HT room- Music room etc.
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We had planned to put to use the multiple sources that Santhosh had to see what would sound best.


Equipment used:
Source:

Amd based HTPC
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Asus Xonar STX,

Maverick DAC D1,

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Marantz CD63 SE

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Amplifier:

Topping TP20

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Speakers:

Audire IO2,

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Wharfedale 10.6

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ICs:

BJC, MX

Speaker cable:

Cardas(for IO2), nameless brand(for Wharf 10.6)

Source Selector (SS)

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These are the various combinations we tried,

Setup no: -Source material-Source-Connectors-Amp-Speakers

S1. CD-CDP- SS-Tp20-IO2

S2. CD-CDP-SS-Tp20-Wf 10.6

S3. CD-CDp-Optical out-Mav D1 DAC-SS-Tp20-Wf 10.6

S4. CD-CDp-No SS(direct IC to amp)-Tp20-Wf10.6

S5. Fla lev5-HTPC-Xonar Stx Analog out-Tp20-Wf 10.6

S6. Flac lev5-HTPC-Xonar Stx Analog out (BJC)-IO2

S7. Flac lev5-Htpc-Xonar STx Analog out- Maverick D1-IO2

S8. Flac lev5-HTPC-Coax-Maveric D1-IO2

S9. CD-CDp-(MX)-Tp20-IO2

To be contd.....:)
 
iaudio/Titus/Golden Ears,

great job brother! As always you are the man on the move, ever so ready to go places at the drop of a hat, auditioning equipment & imparting your experiences to the 'less fortunate' on the HFV forum....

Can you shed more light on the Audire speakers which are more suited to 'Rock/Metal' genre??? Specs/Price plus what kind of amp would pair well with them???

Request you to carry some rock/metal tracks with you when you audition equipment in future, to give 'metalheads' like me a better idea whether the equipments are suited to the genre or not....

Await your next report.....

Danke!
 
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Denom bro,Thank you, was wondering where you were! What tracks do you have in mind in particular?

The rest of it is coming in a few hours.
 
I was away due to work, but am going through the threads on the forum with a vengeance since late evening :D

As for the tracks look at the 'right now i am listening to...' thread, you will find my fav tracks there....

awaiting the rest of your coimbatur experience.....
 
whats Cd-CDP and Flac-Lev5 mean? :)

Are you typing your stammer literally ? CD...CDP CD...CDP ? :)

Nice pics! Lovely Audire's.!! :licklips:
 
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S5. Fla lev5-HTPC-Xonar Stx Analog out-Tp20-Wf 10.6

S6. Flac lev5-HTPC-Xonar Stx Analog out (BJC)-IO2

S7. Flac lev5-Htpc-Xonar STx Analog out- Maverick D1-IO2

S8. Flac lev5-HTPC-Coax-Maveric D1-IO2

Not all of them are Level 5. Most of my rips are Level 6, it seems (going by command-line passed by EAC in log file). It does not matter anyway as FLAC is loss-less irrespective of the level.

Also, to be clear - these are the ICs used (IIRC)

S1, S2: CDP -> MX IC -> SS BJC -> Tp20

S3: CDP -> MX Optical -> MAV D1 -> MX IC -> SS -> BJC -> TP20

S4: CDP -> MX IC -> TP20

S5, S6: HTPC: STX -> BJC -> TP20

S7: STX -> BJC -> MAV D1 -> BJC -> TP20

S8: STX -> MX Coax -> MAV D1 -> BJC -> TP20

S9: CDP -> MX IC -> TP20

As Titus mentioned, IO2 was always connected via Cardas & Wharf via the unbranded speaker cable.
 
Gobble, Doing an SRK a la K.k.k....kkk Kiran!

Santhosh, thanks for adding clarity regarding the ICs.
 
S1. CD-CDP- SS-Tp20-IO2
S2. CD-CDP-SS-Tp20-Wf 10.6
S3. CD-CDp-Optical out-Mav D1 DAC-SS-Tp20-Wf 10.6
S4. CD-CDp-No SS(direct IC to amp)-Tp20-Wf10.6
S5. Fla lev5-HTPC-Xonar Stx Analog out-Tp20-Wf 10.6
S6. Flac lev5-HTPC-Xonar Stx Analog out (BJC)-IO2
S7. Flac lev5-Htpc-Xonar STx Analog out- Maverick D1-IO2
S8. Flac lev5-HTPC-Coax-Maveric D1-IO2
S9. CD-CDp-(MX)-Tp20-IO2



S1
I decided to play Sultans of Swing by Dire Straits as the inaugural track. Just 20-30 seconds into the song and I was frowning! I asked Santhosh to pause the song and told him, Man, dont feel bad, but something is seriously wrong! Now I had high expectations for the speakers. After listening to the Callistos at Audire listening room, I expected the more premium offering to surpass it by a big margin. This was not true, It sounded quite disappointing, lacking in resolution, the separation of instruments that the Callistos could do so well was absolutely missing here, bass was vague and lacking, mids were recessed without much tone. I was flabbergasted, tbh. Earlier when Santhosh used to say that he was not fully satisfied with the set up, I used to tell him that it must be because he was used to very detailed IEMs. But now I could see what he meant.
Subsequently, I played Here comes the rain again from the Marantz Test disc, it confirmed my impressions, as this one was also sounding very veiled. The imaging was not upto the mark either. I played Saraswati , my fave Mandolin track, and it fell flat.
I was sure the speaker was capable of much more than I was hearing, so then on we went on try as many changes as possible to see what was wrong in the chain.

S2
Yes, it was a big change to effect. But, since Santhosh, has a popular commercial loudspeaker, Wharfedale 10.6 lying around, I decided to try it out. So I got it from the HT hall and connected it to the Topping. As I played Saraswati again, there was an improvement in the instrument separation and the mids felt clearer though still lacking in body. However bass was still way off the mark, sounding quite muddy.

S3
Sorry ! I dont think we got around to doing it. Did we, Santhosh?

S4
I had been asking Santhosh about the source selector, which brand it was, how much did it cost, where did he get it from. I remembered Rajiv saying that he would anyday forego input selection for sound quality. So I had a strong feeling that with this out of the chain, there would be a difference.
Sure enough, we played Sultans of Swing and voila, the song pretty much came back to life, I could hear Mark Knopfler again! There was an overall substantial improvement all over the frequency range.
Even the mandolin track was sounding was clearer, more dynamic, though the tonality was still not upto expectation.

S5
Now with the same Wharf speakers, we changed the source to Htpc thru Xonar STX. With the same tracks, I found a massive drop in gain! The clarity was good, but it sounded thin and sibilant without any body.
Overall, it was not doing much to convince me about PC audio.
Then we played,Benighted by Opeth. Beautiful song, I noticed a jump in gain, I mean it increased a lot. (Later on, when I played it at home, I realized these tracks seem to be recorded with higher gain) Again the highs were harsh and the overall sound lacked body.
S6

So we decided to connect the IO2s back as they were our main interest. The rest of the chain remained as explained earlier.
The sound did not impress. One thing I noticed, was that even at lower volume leves, the detailing was consistent.

S7
This time around the Mandolin note had a pleasantly warmer tone but bass resolution suffered.

S8
We changed the connection from Htpc to Mav d1 thru coax, The fast mandolin notes sounded OK, but the sound as a whole didnt have the required depth to it. When the D1 was connec ted in the Direct mode, the gain was better but a significant amount of distortion crept in.
Towards this time, Sarath and Sandeep of Audire, paid a visit to help set the speakers. I pointed out the bass issue to him and after he tried his own cds, he also acknowledged the same. Sarath remarked that the room had a lot of issues and would require treatment. He added that the IO2s were very sensitive to positioning. They played about for a while with the positioning and that did bring about an improvement with regards to the clarity. They tried interchanging the phase and surprisingly the bass improved a bit. Personally I was still not satisfied with the imaging, but at the end of the day(literally) the speakers were sounding better( without Source selector, without toe in) than my first listen.
Now, a very important point is that the Topping tp20 which were driving the Fostex 167 single driver based Lyrita Harmony ones with ease( great bass, detailing, spl) at thevortexs place( at 9-10 levels) was struggling here. It needed to be cranked up to 1 o clock eventhough Santhoshs room was also similar in size. Beyond 2o clock the amp started clipping. Expecting another amp from Audire to see the difference it makes. Also they have offered to check the Topping for any problems.

Though Santhosh s set up consists of a lot of good components, as a whole it is yet to perform to its best. I guess Santhosh is going to be a busy man in the coming days. He was the one who encouraged me time and again to give an absolutely honest opinion about the set up, however negative or positive it might be.

To summarize, I expected the IO2s to perform much better than the relatively inexpensive Callistos. It didnt. Also I was expecting a very fast speaker, very dynamic, that was not to be.

Hopefully better amplification, placement , room treatment with Audires guidance
should set things right and I hope to be dazzled by these beautiful speakers at the 2nd Coimbatore Nano meet.


Finally, Santhosh, Thank you, I had a great time.
 
Audire IO2s
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IO2 rear view
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Lovely lines:licklips:

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The travails of an audiophile
:p
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Vintage Murphy radio

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HT setup
Marantz sr5004 with Wharfedale 10.6 floorstander based speaker package

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AVR

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SW150

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WF 10.6:licklips:

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Ever heard of the kid in a candy store? You are looking at him!:D

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Thats me :yahoo:with the Fostex headphones

Again, the Audio Technica ad700s. I am lovin it!:eek:hyeah:
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After a long day!:)
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Gotta add that, in between all this madness, we spent a lil time with esanthoshs HT setup.
Watched a bit of Matrix on it.
Also listened to the same tracks in Pure audio mode. They sounded pretty fine, though not spectacular and acquitted themselves well. Source was a Sanyo dvd player hooked up to Marantz sr5004 avr through optical.

But the high point of the day was when Santhosh showed his portable setup/setups. This guy has an amazing collection of portable media players, IEMS, Headphones, amps etc.
Basically he had all the stuff on my wish list, Alessandro ms1, Audio technica ad700, Phonak Pfe, Hd re0. He was smart enough to delay the whole thing till there was only a lil time left for me to leave, else surely I would have strayed off the main agenda of the day.
Of all of them, I was blown away by the audio tech ad700. Beautiful resolution, soundstage, balanced.
The Phonak PFe was the IEM equivalent of the above.
Just strengthened my resolve to get the ad700 when I have money. And I have to add, though the Mav d1 didnt do it for me as a dac, I liked it as a headphone amp.

2.11am, ah..now I can go sleep in peace.
 
Nicely narrated review Titus. Thanks for sharing detailed pics of the Audio equipment - both Audire and Santhosh's place. Good to see esanthosh's pic, was able to put a face to the name - after so many offline conversations we have had:).

Titus, I know you are lazy, but can you point me to a pic of the Callisto at the Audire listening room pls. Also, if you have any more pics of the TL speaker with glass/plexiglass pls share those as well - they look beautiful.
 
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Basically he had all the stuff on my wish list, Alessandro ms1, Audio technica ad700, Phonak Pfe, Hd re0. He was smart enough to delay the whole thing till there was only a lil time left for me to leave, else surely I would have strayed off the main agenda of the day

Ya! I know ;)

One thing I'd like to add - Setup X we tried at last, which is HTPC via Analog -> D1 -> TP20. This is after Sharath had re-positioned the speakers and slightly before Titus decided to try my headphones in a short session. I basically played some of my songs - Opeth (2-3 songs), 15 secs of random Classical music (guess it was "Moonlight Sonata") and even Meshuggah. Meshuggah is a Math metal / Extreme metal band that uses a "drumkit from hell" for their songs. Given the complex nature (so many things happening at once), we felt that IO2s handled them well. It was decent, had separation & speed. But Titus felt it's still not up-to the level you expect these speakers to perform. Since I play Opeth like 40% of the time, I had not felt the 'under-performance' much earlier like I did that day.

I also must add that in my innumerable placements, there was some bass when it was all MX ICs. It got sucked away when I continued to change positions in search of a better sound stage, seems like I'd lost it :(

A few more things I wanted to try out:

  1. CDP -> BJC IC -> TP20 vs CDP -> Optical -> D1 -> BJC IC -> TP20
  2. Listening via MAV's USB Input (I am sure Titus would have appreciated it a bit better)
  3. Listening via MAV's Tube Pre-out
  4. Driving IO2 via Marantz AVR
  5. uDAC vs Tubemagic via Headphones
  6. uDAC vs Tubemagic both fed via USB Input to test them as DACs.
But then our planned 5 hour session had already stretched into 10 hours and frankly, we both were tired at that point.

I had auditioned IO2s 3-4 times @ Audire, one full session with TP20. It's not a 'bad' amp. Dr. Chandrasekar even recommended it with Callistos, if you go back to Day 1's review. The source at Audire was a CD17 and I'd assume CD63SE would not be a lesser source compared to it. Comparing with the session Titus had - the only differences are the Amp and the room. Either way, it could be my room, so makes sense to start from there. Then the amp, ICs etc., Let's hope it goes well :)
 
S5
Now with the same Wharf speakers, we changed the source to Htpc thru Xonar STX. With the same tracks, I found a massive drop in gain! The clarity was good, but it sounded thin and sibilant without any body.
Overall, it was not doing much to convince me about PC audio.
Then we played,Benighted by Opeth. Beautiful song, I noticed a jump in gain, I mean it increased a lot. (Later on, when I played it at home, I realized these tracks seem to be recorded with higher gain) Again the highs were harsh and the overall sound lacked body.

Dear iAudio and eSantosh

I have never enjoyed reading an Hifi review so much. This audition was about people connecting and the human narrative of the experience triumphing over "verdict passing" reviews one gets to hear in every other evaluation of Hifi gear. I have never felt more comfortable accepting the opinions reflected about any Hifi gear before.

Glad you felt free to discuss perceived shortcomings so comfortably without any fear of offending the owner of the HiFi gear. And yeah really nice to see the faces and know more about the people behind the scene.


About the xonar STX - this is exactly what I imagined about the SQ even without hearing them. Hence never purchased it. What is the make of the PSU used in your PC?

Now to ponder over how to improve the setup with the IO2s. Personally, I would love to hear my GG preamp in Santosh's setup - I know it will sound great. I also suspect the ICs may be influencing the sound - with a driver like the fostex, it can expose limitations in the chain

Regards
Gobble.
 
Titus - it is pretty clear that you are not a professional reviewer! ;)

See, professional reviewers have forgotten how to put in words what actually is. Which you so nicely have.

Santhosh - I am sure your setup is capable of much, much more. And being the inveterate experimenter that you are, you probably will get to the root of the matter very soon. I am actually very surprised that the Xonar Essence card did not sound impressive. Over and above everything else, I find it very very surprising that the gain on the sound card was low. Typically these sound cards send very high gain signals through their analog output.

Right now, I have my master volume set at 20 (out of a 100). Anything above that shows up as clipping on my Behringer.

From whatever little I have heard of the IO2, it was certainly not a bad speaker. Slightly forceful on the higher frequencies but otherwise having beautiful mid range as a whole.

Titus - quick question - what did you make of the Marantz AVR -> IO2 versus Topping -> IO2?

10 hours at Santhosh's place - marvelous effort! And you guys really have a passion for audio.
 
Gobble,
Thank you, happy that you felt that way. I went there to see how his set up was coming about, why he wasnt satisfied with the sound and see if anything could be done about it.
A tube pre with ss power would be nice. Sharath of Audire feels that Class D amps are not suitable for Audire IO2s, or single drivers in particular( though my experience with Lyrita and tp20 was absolutely fine) because of their high damping factore. Tube amps with low damping factor are required here and Santhosh was asked to consider getting the same.

Bala, Nope! I aint one.

We wanted to, but couldnt find time to hook up the Marantz avr to the IO2s. Its just the Wharfedales we tried with AVR.
As for the Asus SC, we had it on 65 methinks!Gain definitely was as issue when the PC was used as source.

Santhol2, I think I might have accidentally deleted the good pics of the Callistos. The ones I have are kinda OOF. Let me check with Santhosh, if I had copied it on to his PC. In the pic of the room, Callistos are the one sitting on the extreme end. I have put up an individual crop of Callistos, though they are not of great quality.
The Tl-Glass speaker is an IO2 with Glass sides, just for demoing the design. Oh, it looks BEEE-autiful!
 
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I never understood why Audire is into SS amps when they specialize in single-driver speakers. I thought it would be more intuitive if they worked on developing tube amps instead rather than try and deliver SS that work like tubes with a fullranger.


Cheers
 
iAudio and eSantosh, Thanks for sharing. As I like vintage stuff good to see murphy radio in immaculate condition.
Regards
 
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