Collective Hearing Impairment

[kratu]

I sit outside the church as an outcast, the sound levels are unbearable.

At the Gym, I get dance music at shrieking proportions. I keep turning it low much to the chagrin of the trainer. Weddings, Parties; any outdoor venues are hyper loud.

At few audiophiles' residences, I request the sound to be reduced. Their sound levels start to cause some discomfort. One of them prefers playing loud, loud and louder; he admitted that he has minor hearing loss and tinnitus in the left ear.

Am I an oddball or have I become sensitive in the ears? Or is it that humans as species have evolved to be more tolerant?

My Apple Watch taps at my wrist to give me a sane advice. It notifies that I’m in a loud environment (touching 90-95dB). 10 minutes of that exposure would cause temporary hearing loss., a major pathway to permanent hearing impariment. I’ve got it covered with a nice pair of 3M ear plugs. This has become an essential accessory.

My listening levels are around 50-60dB usually, and sometimes 70-75dB; nothing more.

Why do I bring this? When I see people sitting calmly next to blaring sound boxes, I wonder if there is a collective human impairment. I hope to get some thoughts around this. As audiophiles, ears are one of our most important senses.

“Millions of teenagers and young people are at risk of hearing loss due to the unsafe use of personal audio devices and exposure to damaging sound levels at venues such as nightclubs, bars, concerts and sporting events,” said Dr Bente Mikkelsen, WHO Director for the Department for Noncommunicable Diseases.
https://www.who.int/news/item/02-03...ndard-to-tackle-rising-threat-of-hearing-loss

 

[aeroash]

Am I an oddball or have I become sensitive in the ears?

This could be Hyperacusis, increased sensitivity to sound, and is uncommon. I too have this difficulty, and had to recently walk away from a function when the decibels kept climbing!

Misophonia is another disorder, and has been discussed here.
Thread 'The torment of Misophoniacs'
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/the-torment-of-misophoniacs.87233/

Here is a study on why people enjoy higher volumes:

Why Do People Like Loud Sound? A Qualitative Study

Many people choose to expose themselves to potentially dangerous sounds such as loud music, either via speakers, personal audio systems, or at clubs. The Conditioning, Adaptation and Acculturation to Loud Music (CAALM) Model has proposed a theoretical ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here's a concise version:

Why People Love Loud Music | Loop Earplugs

 

[square_wave]

Most people I know listen at around 65 - 72 db. This is my personal listening level as well. This is an average level. There will be peaks that will hit about 78 db.

Most homes with no professional acoustic treatments will not allow above this without the system getting shouty. I have seen people turning the volume up even more and I usually wince !

In a professionally treated listening room, it is possible to go higher up into the 85 - 90 db without it ever straining your ears. This is because the systems never sounds imbalanced at any frequency. When you turn up the volume, the entertainment just increases.

I have been a few live music shows in some really good halls here. Most shows play in the 70 to 80 db range and it sounds sublime. A Madeleine Payroux show was playing at 60 - 70 db which I found a little too less for a live show. The people respect artists a lot and it is dead quiet so it is actually quite okay.

Stadium rock shows are a different thing. It can be quite loud ...well into the 100's.

50 to 60 db ( avg 55 ) can mask some details unless you are listening nearfield in a room with very less background noise. The details can be heard but they will not have the attack and body that you hear if such an instrument is played unamplified in front of you.

 

[kratu]

This could be Hyperacusis, increased sensitivity to sound, and is uncommon. I too have this difficulty, and had to recently walk away from a function when the decibels kept climbing!

I don't disagree with you. It is possible that I could have increased sensitivity to sound. Sometimes my listening levels at the quietest could be around 45-50dB.

However, my observations are corroborated with the warnings on my Apple Watch. There are clear notifications that I'm in a loud environment that is unsafe, and exposure beyond 10 mins at that levels could cause temporary hearing loss. This must be based on objective/scientific data from tests.

If I had a problem with 70-75dB, I could have understood that I might have an issue. However, I can crank up to 80dB in short durations for a track. 90dB and above is where it begins to cause discomfort. Not everyone has access to a monitoring and warning system. For example, people who use ear phones while commuting tend to raise volume to unsafe levels just to drown out the environment noise. And they might not be aware of the damage being done.

My understanding that with increased exposure to loud sound levels can desensitise people to repeated exposure. The ears have a temporary hearing loss as a defense mechanism. And the follicles tend to break apart losing sensitivity. And prolonged exposure can cause hearing impairment to various degrees. That makes them desensitised to loud sounds.

Here's a concise version:

Why People Love Loud Music | Loop Earplugs

While the article seems to indicate that loud music is enjoyable and normal, it doesn't say it is healthy. In fact, it is a clever clickbait, an invitation to read the actual warning. (Notice that the product they sell is an ear plug.)

Line from the article:
"There is also the misconception that loud music will cause no damage unless it’s painful, which tends to be in the range of 120-140 decibels. But hearing loss can happen when the decibels are as low as 85, especially when the exposure to this amplitude is constant."

 

[ssf]

I thankfully don't have an issue with loud music but I would rather avoid it if I can. My listening levels too are around the 75 Db mark.

But the sound levels that I am exposed to at home depends on how well my 9 year old does in his exams.

 

[Nitin K]

I sit outside the church as an outcast, the sound levels are unbearable.

At the Gym, I get dance music at shrieking proportions. I keep turning it low much to the chagrin of the trainer. Weddings, Parties; any outdoor venues are hyper loud.

At few audiophiles' residences, I request the sound to be reduced. Their sound levels start to cause some discomfort. One of them prefers playing loud, loud and louder; he admitted that he has minor hearing loss and tinnitus in the left ear.

Am I an oddball or have I become sensitive in the ears? Or is it that humans as species have evolved to be more tolerant?

My Apple Watch taps at my wrist to give me a sane advice. It notifies that I’m in a loud environment (touching 90-95dB). 10 minutes of that exposure would cause temporary hearing loss., a major pathway to permanent hearing impariment. I’ve got it covered with a nice pair of 3M ear plugs. This has become an essential accessory.

My listening levels are around 50-60dB usually, and sometimes 70-75dB; nothing more.

Why do I bring this? When I see people sitting calmly next to blaring sound boxes, I wonder if there is a collective human impairment. I hope to get some thoughts around this. As audiophiles, ears are one of our most important senses.

“Millions of teenagers and young people are at risk of hearing loss due to the unsafe use of personal audio devices and exposure to damaging sound levels at venues such as nightclubs, bars, concerts and sporting events,” said Dr Bente Mikkelsen, WHO Director for the Department for Noncommunicable Diseases.
https://www.who.int/news/item/02-03...ndard-to-tackle-rising-threat-of-hearing-loss

You can also add the car/bike & autorickshaw's shrill horns which are also unbearable.

 

[kratu]

I thankfully don't have an issue with loud music but I would rather avoid it if I can. My listening levels too are around the 75 Db mark.

But the sound levels that I am exposed to at home depends on how well my 9 year old does in his exams.

On the contrary, I'm thankful that I have an issue with loud music. I see it as a natural alert mechanism that serves the purpose of protecting my ears from harm. It is not that I'm writhing in pain. It is discomfort similar to skin being exposed to scorching sun.

From the article quoted earlier, one doesn't need to feel pain to understand the damage being done. Even a constant exposure to 85dB or more can do it without any realisation.

Speaking of a 9 year old, I have more tolerance to natural sound than a reproduced one. With the latter, sometimes we have to contend with a mediocre system that has congested dynamic range and trash load of sibilance and distortion.

 

[arj]

Another perspective, as you grow older you will see a reduction in hearing as well. It is also very possible than its the above 15khz which is getting to you which only gets attenuated with age. These days my hearing rolls off after 14khz

Not sure of your issue is frequency specific or SPL specific.

I usually prefer my music in the 75-80dB range and too loud is something i cant stand...especially when there is the slightest distortion. But with age hearing is getting reduced so never know how high ill go over the (y)ears

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

I think what might be also useful is to discriminate correctly between actual physical pain/discomfort and mental irritation/agony. And the best judge of it can be one’s self-awareness.

The former (physical discomfort) too, is ok if within normal range for humans (I’d think some discomfort at 85 dB onwards, that grows with loudness). But if sounds (especially musical) within 80dB cause physical discomfort, then probably one should seek medical opinion.

As for pure mental irritation/agony, it might be interesting to analyse further. Is it certain kinds of music/sounds/ambient conditions? And then explore and identify the underlying beliefs/biases/assumptions that might be causing it. It might turn out to be a useful personal effectiveness exercise.

 

[Love4sound]

Kids,Adults no one has the awareness regarding loud noise damage. I myself suffer from tinnitus due to loud noise damage and now I am very cautious in protecting my ears.

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

One of my signs if I am really liking certain music is if I keep reducing the volume as it progresses - an indication that I am listening intently and immersing into it! Happens with hard rock and heavy metal too!

 

[kratu]

Kids,Adults no one has the awareness regarding loud noise damage. I myself suffer from tinnitus due to loud noise damage and now I am very cautious in protecting my ears.

Yes, that's unfortunate and it happens due to lack of awareness. I remember your story of the cause of the tinnitus issue.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Comfortably loud should be OK. IME, the problem is more due to distortions of the amplifier / speakers at highvolume. Also phase errors are major culprits to cause discomfort to listening even at low volumes. Almost 98% of the commercial speakers are not phase coherent and listening such speakers with phase errors will be painful evenvat 65dB SPL. While a perfectly phase coherent speakers and setup will be comfortable even at 95+ dB.

When you go for a live concert the front rows are almost at 105dB SPL level, but we don't find any discomfort as the venue is perfectly tuned and aligned. Also live music without amplification at 100+dB is quite comfortable IME.

 

[kratu]

I think what might be also useful is to discriminate correctly between actual physical pain/discomfort and mental irritation/agony. And the best judge of it can be one’s self-awareness.

The former (physical discomfort) too, is ok if within normal range for humans (I’d think some discomfort at 85 dB onwards, that grows with loudness). But if sounds (especially musical) within 80dB cause physical discomfort, then probably one should seek medical opinion.

As for pure mental irritation/agony, it might be interesting to analyse further. Is it certain kinds of music/sounds/ambient conditions? And then explore and identify the underlying beliefs/biases/assumptions that might be causing it. It might turn out to be a useful personal effectiveness exercise.

Well, I agree that if there is a discomfort within 80dB, then there could be a potential issue that is worth investigating. I don't have that. 80-85dB is the threshold beyond which is unsafe territory. Folks, please take care of the most important "gear in your system". It neither can be replaced nor upgraded.

I'm not sure how a mental/psychological irritation comes into view here. So, skipping that part.

 

[kratu]

Comfortably loud should be OK. IME, the problem is more due to distortions of the amplifier / speakers at highvolume. Also phase errors are major culprits to cause discomfort to listening even at low volumes. Almost 98% of the commercial speakers are not phase coherent and listening such speakers with phase errors will be painful evenvat 65dB SPL. While a perfectly phase coherent speakers and setup will be comfortable even at 95+ dB.

When you go for a live concert the front rows are almost at 105dB SPL level, but we don't find any discomfort as the venue is perfectly tuned and aligned. Also live music without amplification at 100+dB is quite comfortable IME.

In a different thread, a gentleman claimed that he usually listens at 130dB and anything below 100dB is boring for him. (Not sure whether he was speaking about dBA or C). That was his comfort level. For a normal human being that is unthinkable.

My point is that we might feel "comfortable" at higher sound levels but that doesn't necessarily mean it is safe. Objectively speaking, from scientific data, the safe level is around 85dB. (Also factoring the duration and the amplitude of sound frequencies).

I agree that distortion can cause discomfort at even lower levels and a resolving system in a well-treated space can reduce that discomfort at even higher levels. I have been to Jazz concert with front seat and did have a good time. These days, I take precautions and have setup an alert that notifies me if the ambient noise hits 90dB.

 

[bornfi]

Keeping all technicalities aside, my take on this phenomenon is related to the element of carelessness in society that gets reflected in different shapes and forms at different places. e.g. I had once someone parked the car next to mine in such a way that driver's side door could not be opened. Now if we take this person to the front of a music system, I am very sure he/she wouldn't care as to what is being played and at what volume. I know a funny way to analyze the situation but purely my way for thinking.

 

[reignofchaos]

In a different thread, a gentleman claimed that he usually listens at 130dB and anything below 100dB is boring for him. (Not sure whether he was speaking about dBA or C). That was his comfort level. For a normal human being that is unthinkable.

My point is that we might feel "comfortable" at higher sound levels but that doesn't necessarily mean it is safe. Objectively speaking, from scientific data, the safe level is around 85dB. (Also factoring the duration and the amplitude of sound frequencies).

I agree that distortion can cause discomfort at even lower levels and a resolving system in a well-treated space can reduce that discomfort at even higher levels. I have been to Jazz concert with front seat and did have a good time. These days, I take precautions and have setup an alert that notifies me if the ambient noise hits 90dB.

It's impossible for 99.9% of commercial audio systems to reach 130 dB. That's the sound of a plane taking off with you standing on the runway. This gentleman is bluffing.

 

[square_wave]

I have been to large classical orchestras where the sound level is about 85 to 90 db average with bigger peaks. No issues at all. It is quite enjoyable. For me, it is all about how pure the sound is and the quality of the acoustics. Distorted and unbalanced sound can make me wince and walk out even at 80db. So, it is not just about loudness level although beyond a certain level, it is !

 

[Love4sound]

Yes, that's unfortunate and it happens due to lack of awareness. I remember your story of the cause of the tinnitus issue.

Yes and also less importance is given when it comes to health related to ears. I have been avoiding weddings,church, parties. Some cases we cant avoid and i use cotton to block my ears and spend just few minutes just for attendance sake. For now i only drop and pick up my wife and daugter from church. The services are way to loud even for people who don't have loud-noise damage.Frustrating to see ignorant adults,parents with their infants,kids in church exposing them to so much danger.Some even sit with their babies next to the big speakers.I always plan all my outings and being very cautious not to expose my ears to loud noise and have cotton balls stacked in my car,wallet. My ears have also become very sensitive. Must be mild hyperacusis. Anyways it was a huge wake up call for me to start protecting my ears and seems to be going good. Now in a much better place compared to when it all started.

 

[arj]

I have been to large classical orchestras where the sound level is about 85 to 90 db average with bigger peaks. No issues at all. It is quite enjoyable. For me, it is all about how pure the sound is and the quality of the acoustics. Distorted and unbalanced sound can make me wince and walk out even at 80db. So, it is not just about loudness level although beyond a certain level, it is !

Perhaps the most pertinent point. Distortion is the key word ie in a system with low/insignificant Distortion , you dont even realize the dB going loud but when it starts distorting your ability to stand that music drops drastically. I have this problem with Most PA systems !