Collective Hearing Impairment
- Thread starter kratu
- Start date
Yes, this is the recent version that Apple released this September. Apple Watch has given a more objective approach to this issue. I setup an alert to warn me if the environment noise level touches 90dB.
sachinchavan 15865
Well-Known Member
I don’t want to sound critical or even judging, but want to share my thoughts/concern over a certain trend.
We increasingly see personal gadgets and apps coming up to warn us about unhealthy conditions in our surroundings. Like this Noise app that @kratu uses and depends upon. Or pollution meters. UV meters could be next (or are they already there?). And what ever comes further.
My concern is, as we start depending on gadgets to scan and assess our environment, wouldn’t we lose our body’s sensitivity/ability to track and alert us on the same? Aren’t our ears (including the neural network involved) sufficient to alert us on loud sounds around us? Yes, gadgets can do so with greater accuracy, but is that level of accuracy necessary? I mean it’s not as if 90 dB is damaging and 88dB is not. Can’t we depend on our own senses and brain to do the job?
But one can argue, ‘why not use and depend on gadgets instead if they are available and affordable’? My reasoning here is, whatever we don’t use, gradually diminishes. Including acute the sensing that we possess.
I cite the example of third umpire decisions in cricket. When slo-mo TV replays arrived, I used to be amazed with the level of accuracy with which the on-field umpires (then) detected run-outs unless they were say extremely marginal cases (few inches). But later came third umpires equipped with technology to give decisions on run-outs or stumpings. (Frankly I don’t understand why third umpires are called ‘umpires’ - they just have to read what the meters show, and don’t need to use any discrimination of their own, the job could be done by any cheaper, trained resource). Back to the point, over the years since third umpires came into existence, the acute abilities of on-field umpires have gradually diminished, even lost. These days I am shocked that on-field umpires don’t adjudicate when there’s almost a meter distance between the bat and the crease and instead refer it to third umpire (technology). I can still correctly make out far tighter run outs in live action than the ones that the on-field umpires refer to technology. Similarly we’ve also seen the error percentage in other decisions (nicks, lbw) made by the on-field umpires have increased alarmingly since DRS was introduced.
Don’t get me wrong. I am not arguing against use of technology in cricket or in daily life. Nor is my intention to judge anyone’s decision to use - it’s personal to each of us. But I am only reflecting and expressing my concern over the systemic/universal impact of increasing dependence on technology for what our bodies have evolved over millennia to detect.
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Does this apple device require calibration or are they pre-calibrated?
One of the main reasons to get an Apple Watch is that if I ever find myself in unfortunate situation of getting knocked out by the side of the road, unconscious, I know my family will be alerted. That is the potential of technology. The noise app was something that I discovered later.
We rely on technology to make objective assessment of our health. Diabetics rely on blood sugar monitors, heart patients need ECGs. We need devices to check our vitals when in intensive care.
The use of Apple device is for preventive health. They guide us to take informed decisions. We can choose to ignore and make our own judgements based on the situation. Our ears can definitely help to warn us, and we don't need a watch to tell us that. However, we can't rely completely on subjective assessment as the situation could be that we are not paying attention, unaware or distracted. Commuters who use ear phones tend to crank up volume to unsafe levels, just to drown out the environment noise. Here, the definition of safe levels can get subjective.
For @Love4sound tinnitus would have never happened if there was a clear warning from his body/ear. There are many such instances where people have caused damage due to exposure to unsafe levels of sound.
That's a gentle nudge to take the conversation back from discussion on the use of technology to the main topic.
@Hari Iyer The Apple Watch doesn't require any calibration.
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The Human body is magnificent and adapts to the environment of temporary tolerant levels of corrosiveness. One gets used to the ambient noise around them, (traffic, machinery, etc). The body learns to filter these out over time. This does not mean it's safe.
Factory workers in a hazardous environment inhaling small doses of dust, fumes etc learn to live with it. The implications are presented only at a much later stage, and more often than not, it's a point of no return.
Same with the continued consumption of junk food, tobacco, liquor, meds etc
Preventive devices perhaps present us with data that can help us make better choices. If left to our senses alone, we subconsciously adapt and become tolerant. This does not mean it's safe.
Watching on TV is different from being on the ground.
Lifestyles have constantly and rapidly changed in the past 50+ years, but human bodies have not kept up. Processed foods, longer working hours, work at desks that require long sitting hours, stressful schedules, rat race, being stuck in traffic on a regular basis, yada yada.
I do believe most of young ones have their ears shot out even before 21. Gaming headphones, constant in-ear headphone bluetooth usage, and then one has the bars, pubs, car stereos etc. not to forget the noisy environment we live in. The festival fire crackers also do their bit.
From then on its only going to slip downwards. Hence weddings, DJ nights etc are going to be louder than what they used to be. Even the DJ’s themselves may have hearing issues.
Now what you may have is not a problem but just proper ear sensitivity and you are in environments that are over the top as far as decibels are concerned.
I would say “you lucky duck”. You are in an enviable situation.
Manek
sachinchavan 15865
Well-Known Member
That’s one relevant argument against my point. Good one!
Still believe that those with sufficient awareness would do better to keep their senses used and keen to detect hazards than depend on gadgets and lose their sensing acuity over time. And what happens then when you don’t have the gadget at hand (or on hand in this case)?
Absolutely! As we can’t sense/measure any of those parameters with our senses. Sound levels that can harm us on the other hand, our ears can easily sense if we value our hearing safety. And if we don’t, we are unlikely to use the apps/gadgets for the purpose even if we own them.
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This idea of writing this post was to discuss and raise awareness on hearing safety and not to be read as an endorsement for a certain gadget. I have been cautious about hearing safety for many years now. And, I was meaning to write this for a long time. I didn’t have the watch till recently.
Having said that, without an Apple device I would not got down to create this post. I would never have an objective viewpoint and so convinced that there is an issue that I see in the environment. I have brought up the Apple Watch to substantiate and take out any subjectivity around this. As someone would point out that it could be a personal issue with heightened sensitivity or even hearing loss.
I believe there is very low awareness around hearing safety and sadly there would be more cases of people gradually losing their hearing abilities. This would cause a spill over effect as we see more increase in loudness levels. These gadgets help in spreading awareness. They won’t prevent it from happening.
As @aeroash indicated, we could grow tolerant. I’ve also mentioned that the mind is not always cognisant of the issue. When we are on the road, the brain has the priority to keep us safe by monitoring potential threats. Damage to the ear is important but not high on the list. The function of the ears here is to help in alerting to potential threats to personal safety.
And I have also alluded to the fact that people tend to increase the volume while listening to ear phones. If the ambient noise is at 90-95dB, imagine how much of sound levels does someone push the volume to drown that out?
Let me tell you something interesting. Take an ‘Anechoic chamber’ which is designed to isolate noise. They are so quiet that some of the best ones go below 0dBA. All you hear is yourself and everything starts sounding louder. It is said that some time into the chamber, one begins to notice blood gushing through the veins inside the skull, the heart keeps throbbing out loud, lungs would start making sounds as they move. And all of a sudden, we realise that our body is a complex machinery that is busy working.
Why do I bring this? The body can adapt to the environment. It begins to notice the sounds which were thought to be non-existent. In a loud environment, one might not notice that the sound levels from the ear phones is very loud. The perception of what is loud can get subjective. And common folk would go about unaware of the damage.
One person's music is another person's noise and vice versa. From the perspective of physics, both are just sound.
sachinchavan 15865
Well-Known Member
Silence is similar - while it can be meditative to someone, it could trigger sedatephobia in another.
On the other hand, music can be healing for some. And not just meditative/classical music. Rock music has traditionally been an outlet for collective angst - though loud rock concerts might be damaging to the ear, they might be cathartic for some. Hard rock, heavy metal, usually played at higher volumes than other genre can have a surprisingly calming effect at the end of the track/album/concert.
Humanity is such a fascinating spectrum on almost everything! Humans and their bodies can also be surprisingly adaptive. Otherwise we’d have seen every single touring rock musician to be stone deaf by the time he/she hits 50.
None of this however, is to contradict this thread’s primary purpose - to alert on damaging effects of prolonged exposure to heavy sounds. That’s quite necessary. But only to posit that it’s better to not be dogmatic about it and see this one hazard in the context of overall life and it’s diversity.
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Love4sound
Well-Known Member
Lot of musicians suffer from tinnitus, mild hearing loss but don’t reveal it. They make money and they can’t be sending the message concerts and listening to music in earphones pose a danger to ears. And also most of them use protections. There are expensive ones which provide good protections and u would have seen them using it in concerts and recordings. I am part of a facebook group for tinnitus and other ear problems which has 37k members. Guess what? Most of them had a life style of exposing their ears to loud noise. Many also don’t realise they have mild damage. They keep listening at high levels having mild hearing loss even without knowing they have loud noise damage. Also for many it’s cumulative and not instant. My case it’s exposure to loud noise for 15-20 years. The damage started way back in the 1st year but only became effective in the 20th year or I only came to know in the 20th year. Yes enjoy your system, take care of your ears and no need to be dogmatic. Based on my test results the ENT said I caught it at the right time and can maintain the damage at this level without the damage getting worse. If little late then there was no saving my ears.
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Yes, some might find loud music cathartic, or experience heightened sense of sensory pleasure. In mega churches people tend to equate loudness with higher spiritual presence.
We need to quantify what “higher volumes” here mean. And most importantly how long. Yes, human ears are adaptive. If they go beyond a threshold of safe limit, there is a temporary hearing loss. I guess this is first defence mechanism. And, the ears can get back to normal level of sensitivity. It needs some time for recouping. So, we are also advised on a weekly safe limit. For loud, abrupt sounds it is said that we experience a high pitched ringing sound for a while. In some unfortunate cases, this can be permanent. Tinnitus, is like being released with warning; a parole for life.
So, we aren’t saying that touching the 90dB mark would immediately cause hearing damage. This can be gradual and show its effect later in life. As @square_wave mentioned that hearing impairment is not uncommon in musicians. By the way, hearing impairment shouldn’t always be equated with stone deafness. These could be in various degrees of reduced sensitivity; and gradual decline in sensing certain octaves. (Starting from the highs, mostly).
I also wonder how and why we don’t find people going deaf with such a loud levels of sound. I don't know about their exact measure of hearing ability. Perhaps, every one adapts to them individually. There could be various degree of coping mechanism.
Take for instance the consumption of Alcohol. It is ‘relatively’ safe within a limit. Liver makes an extra effort to rid of toxins. Even If gone beyond a certain limit, it can still heal itself through time. It could take a surprising level of abuse, as evident in alcoholics. Acute liver failure can happen in extreme cases. Smokers lung can also heal itself completely after few years, if one stops smoking. We see people taking the risk even with growing evidence and warnings. (One contrary point is that ears don’t have a similar healing mechanism, sadly. Once the damage is done, it is irreversible)
Even with these variables, why risk this beautiful sensory experience for short term listening pleasure? As audiophiles, this is something precious to us. This is not about being dogmatic but taking informed decisions based on empirical evidence and scientific data. Beyond that is a personal choice.
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keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Yes, many of our organs are very adaptive but this does not apply uniformly across all humans. Also, adapting does not happen in isolation; other environmental factors aid this. What is good for the goose may not be good for the gander.
It is a fact that loud sounds cause hearing damage. What constitutes "loud" is variable and this too does not apply uniformly across all humans. Would I want to assume that my organs would adapt and thus keep listening at loud levels? And then find out after the damage is done that they could not adapt? I would be stupid (in my eyes) if I made that assumption. But of course, others are free to be stupid if they want and choose to.
Also, no, our ears and/or brain do not always complain at dangerously loud levels especially when the loud sound is "clean". It's enjoyable till the inevitable happens and by then it's too late.
If being dogmatic is what it takes to warn people about this hazard, I'd rather be dogmatic because the problem is real and no amount of prose can or should be allowed to negate or trivialize that fact.
It is a fact that loud sounds cause hearing damage. What constitutes "loud" is variable and this too does not apply uniformly across all humans. Would I want to assume that my organs would adapt and thus keep listening at loud levels? And then find out after the damage is done that they could not adapt? I would be stupid (in my eyes) if I made that assumption. But of course, others are free to be stupid if they want and choose to.
Also, no, our ears and/or brain do not always complain at dangerously loud levels especially when the loud sound is "clean". It's enjoyable till the inevitable happens and by then it's too late.
If being dogmatic is what it takes to warn people about this hazard, I'd rather be dogmatic because the problem is real and no amount of prose can or should be allowed to negate or trivialize that fact.
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From a purely objective point of view you are correct. Music is a collection of sounds.
It becomes “music” or “noise” from a purely subjective point of view.
(I was missing the objective vs subjective wars!!!)
But as pointed out be several posts music that is pleasant, enjoyable and even enthralling can become noise if reproduced at high db, distorted, resulting in physical pain/discomfort and psychological effects that may be long lasting or permanent.
And then there is this:
In a study of over 80,000 adults over the age of 60, those who had trouble hearing speech in noisy environments had a greater risk of dementia, which is an umbrella term for conditions characterized by memory loss and difficulty with language and other thinking skills.
www.sciencealert.com
In a study of over 80,000 adults over the age of 60, those who had trouble hearing speech in noisy environments had a greater risk of dementia, which is an umbrella term for conditions characterized by memory loss and difficulty with language and other thinking skills.
Can't Hear People When There's Noise Around? A Study Links This to Dementia Risk
Hearing is a skill most of us take for granted.
www.sciencealert.com
reubensm
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, it depends on one's personality and also the genre of music. When I listen to Disco and Rock, I like to play loud, when I listen to other genres like country for example, I like to play moderate and when I listen to western classical music, I like to play soft
. I think its all personal preference. My elder son for example, likes soft levels while the younger chap loves his music loud.Half of World's Young People at Risk for Hearing Loss: Study
As many as 1.35 billion young people worldwide are at risk of hearing lossdue to "unsafe listening," a new study shows.The study found that as many as 1 in 4 people ages 12 to 34 are exposed to dangerous noise levels via "personal listening devices," such as high volume settings on smartphones, and nearly half of people those ages experience damaging noise levels at entertainment venues.
Half of World's Young People at Risk for Hearing Loss: Study
The study found that as many as 1 in 4 people ages 12-34 are exposed to dangerous noise levels via 'personal listening devices.'
www.medscape.com
Half of World's Young People at Risk for Hearing Loss: Study
As many as 1.35 billion young people worldwide are at risk of hearing lossdue to "unsafe listening," a new study shows.
The study found that as many as 1 in 4 people ages 12 to 34 are exposed to dangerous noise levels via "personal listening devices," such as high volume settings on smartphones, and nearly half of people those ages experience damaging noise levels at entertainment venues.
Half of World's Young People at Risk for Hearing Loss: Study
The study found that as many as 1 in 4 people ages 12-34 are exposed to dangerous noise levels via 'personal listening devices.'www.medscape.com
Very true. Many of them cannot live without earplugs or headphones whether it while walking, having meals etc. In moderate use everything is fine at sane volume levels.
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