Confused!!! ::: Media Player vs. HTPC vs. WiFi Router

[tanmayj]

Hi,

I'm a bit confused here.

Firstly somebody please tell me what you can do with an HTPC that you CANNOT do with a media player! I'm not sure where the Media Player capabilities end and HTPC Capabilities begin.

What I am looking for is:

1) Max AND I MEAN MAX support for various file types etc. Which is the box that supports most of everything thats out there.
2) The ability to download additional codecs and install them so that the box can keep playing newer formats as they come
3) Like you connect a USB based HDD to a media player, can you connect a USB based external Blu Ray drive too? I have a lot of movies on DVD and don't wanna spend time ripping everything to HDD.


Now, I was also looking for some WiFi routers because mine is circling the drain right now. I was surprised to find similar capabilities (USB HDD connect, NAS Sharing, even torrent downloads) on some of the WiFi routers.

I'm thinking which functionalities are better suited to which hardware?

Should I go for a fully loaded WiFi router? That'll give me everything I need on the WiFi router layer itself - the media player would then be used purely to decode various file formats and then pass on to the Receiver/ TV.

Or instead should I go in for a fully loaded media player?

Under what circumstances should I look for an HTPC?

I've come to the conclusion that most decent Media Players come with USB connectivity and NAS servers anyways. So even if I go with a WiFi router which gives me these, the media player would have them nevertheless. Therefore it would be a feature overlap. Instead I'll go for a barebones WiFi router and go for a fully loaded media player. Does this make sense?

But coming to WiFi routers, I dont want the basic models. Their range is shitty and I sometimes struggle to stream heavy-duty content. If my line of thought is correct, I need a WiFi router with Dual Band and good range, but without all the other jing-bang features.

Please suggest (on the overall picture).

 

[koushikp]

I can feel your pain...I have gone through all this and thankfully now settled down... While I would have liked to give a more comprehensive reply explaining everything, right now kinda short of time...so lemme save that for later and give u the basics:

1. No you don't need a htpc if u r just going to connect a HDD and play movies. Htpc is overkill... there are lots of reason to get a htpc, but let's leave it here now.

2. The ideal solution for error and hassle free network streaming is a wired network+a gigabit quality router and a quality nas with decent throughput. And no, every router and nas having the same spec or feature set won't perform similarly.

3. There are media players which accepts external blu ray drives. But I find that workaround pointless. One can simply get a blu ray players which has extensive file support.. and don't look for 100% support its pointless.. What matters is that it plays the formats that matter.

4. Please don't use your media player or the router as a nas.. you run the risk of frying your media player by keeping it on 24*7. And connecting a USB drive to a router is OK for basic usage but not for HD streaming over the network you simply won't get enough throughput reliably aay all points of time

 

[tanmayj]

Thanks koushik for that quick update... So you're saying separate media player + separate router + separate NAS? Would the media player really fry if kept on for a long time? I'll obviously keep it well ventilated. And regarding using the router as a NAS, could you elaborate why we wont get the BW reliably? Moreover what'd be different with a separate NAS that gives us enough bW... finally if Koushik or anybody else can elaborate on pt. no. 1 that'd help thanks...

 

[k2max6]

I would suggest that you buy a blu ray player instead of a media player. You can connect your hdd as well as play dvds/blurays.

I suppose you want a wifi router to double up as NAS. Yes it can but won't be as reliable and smooth as a wired NAS. Will do as long as file sizes are under 10gb . A good router should cost you around 8-12k for such capabilities.

 

[Calvin]

Hi,

I'm a bit confused here.

Firstly somebody please tell me what you can do with an HTPC that you CANNOT do with a media player! I'm not sure where the Media Player capabilities end and HTPC Capabilities begin.

What I am looking for is:

1) Max AND I MEAN MAX support for various file types etc. Which is the box that supports most of everything thats out there.
2) The ability to download additional codecs and install them so that the box can keep playing newer formats as they come
3) Like you connect a USB based HDD to a media player, can you connect a USB based external Blu Ray drive too? I have a lot of movies on DVD and don't wanna spend time ripping everything to HDD.

I don't think there is any media player that has this ability. This can be satisfied by a HTPC only, as of now. The other two requirements can be met by Dune Media Player with a Bluray drive.

Now, I was also looking for some WiFi routers because mine is circling the drain right now. I was surprised to find similar capabilities (USB HDD connect, NAS Sharing, even torrent downloads) on some of the WiFi routers.

I'm thinking which functionalities are better suited to which hardware?

Should I go for a fully loaded WiFi router? That'll give me everything I need on the WiFi router layer itself - the media player would then be used purely to decode various file formats and then pass on to the Receiver/ TV.

Or instead should I go in for a fully loaded media player?

I've come to the conclusion that most decent Media Players come with USB connectivity and NAS servers anyways. So even if I go with a WiFi router which gives me these, the media player would have them nevertheless. Therefore it would be a feature overlap. Instead I'll go for a barebones WiFi router and go for a fully loaded media player. Does this make sense?

But coming to WiFi routers, I dont want the basic models. Their range is shitty and I sometimes struggle to stream heavy-duty content. If my line of thought is correct, I need a WiFi router with Dual Band and good range, but without all the other jing-bang features.

Please suggest (on the overall picture).

Even if you get a high end wifi router, I would advise against using it as an NAS. Streaming 1080p over wireless isn't that easy yet. Get a media player like Dune and leave the torrent downloading to the router (something like Asus RT-N13).

Under what circumstances should I look for an HTPC?

If you want your media player to play every media format under the sun and *also* scalable for future, go for a HTPC. You can build a very good HTPC with a bluray drive in 20K. But you need to spend considerable amount of time to set it up to function like a media player so that even other family members can easily operate it.

Hope this helps.

 

[tanmayj]

Thanks Calvin, want to avoid the complex setup of the HTPC - dont have time for that... tell me, are there any media players which receive added formats compatibility via regular firmware updates?

 

[koushikp]

Thanks Calvin, want to avoid the complex setup of the HTPC - dont have time for that... tell me, are there any media players which receive added formats compatibility via regular firmware updates?

practically all of them do. And as far as accepting a separate blu-ray drive is concerned xtreamer has that capability. I personally feel Dune is way overpriced given the kind of picture quality it has...but given the total cost of adding a blu-ray drive to a xtreamer, i stick by what i said, get a blu-ray player which does the job. I have Oppo 93, which does the job supremely well, I have played full sized blu-ray rips, no compression... most recent being Django unchained, I am connected through a D-Link DIR-655, connected to the Netgear Readynas duo V2 NAS...all through Cat6 cabling.

coming to my earlier comments on things on paper being different in performance i present this live case in my home...the Oppo 93 has only 100 Mbps speed and I have also got a AMD E450 based HTPC in my bedroom which has a gigabit speed, everything else in the network absolutely same, the HTPC being closer in distance in the wired network environment than the Oppo....amazing thing is the Oppo plays all files absolutely without any buffering once it starts even a full BD rip like Django unchained >35 GB size...while I intermittently face choppiness issues with the HTPC, its generally reliable, but it happens...I guess the Oppo being a specialist does the job better...and the quality of the Oppo is unparallel...as far as file support goes, you google Oppo faq wiki, Oppo has an extensive wikipedia page dedicated to these questions, they also give regular firmware upgrades, so that's not gonna be a problem..

is file support in a BD player as universal as a media player? definitely not, e.g. the Oppo doesn't play DVD ISO files over the network (plays locally), doesn't play BD ISOs at all..but I am yet to have a problem with a HD Mkv file in my huge collection...

I don't know your budget whether a Oppo fits in your budget or not...but i remember a Oppo 93 being posted for sale in the for sale section from a fm..at today's USD rate that probably will be the best way to acquire it...

if you want to stick to a media player, best name in a cost effective way that comes in my mind is Popcorn hour, they will always have a model in their collection where a blu-ray player drive can be added..and it uses sigma design chips which is better in picture quality than the realtek ones on which xtreamer is based

 

[mathan]

Thanks koushik for that quick update... So you're saying separate media player + separate router + separate NAS? Would the media player really fry if kept on for a long time? I'll obviously keep it well ventilated. And regarding using the router as a NAS, could you elaborate why we wont get the BW reliably? Moreover what'd be different with a separate NAS that gives us enough bW... finally if Koushik or anybody else can elaborate on pt. no. 1 that'd help thanks...

Try powerline network adapters. It streams 1080p movies flawless even to a length 50 metrs. Bought it from a FM here. Check this for more details (if the website is in German please use Google translate)

http://www.amazon.de/TP-Link-TL-PA5...&ie=UTF8&qid=1365261160&sr=1-1&keywords=PA511

 

[sam9s]

Hi,

I'm a bit confused here.

Firstly somebody please tell me what you can do with an HTPC that you CANNOT do with a media player! I'm not sure where the Media Player capabilities end and HTPC Capabilities begin.

What I am looking for is:

1) Max AND I MEAN MAX support for various file types etc. Which is the box that supports most of everything thats out there.
2) The ability to download additional codecs and install them so that the box can keep playing newer formats as they come
3) Like you connect a USB based HDD to a media player, can you connect a USB based external Blu Ray drive too? I have a lot of movies on DVD and don't wanna spend time ripping everything to HDD.


Now, I was also looking for some WiFi routers because mine is circling the drain right now. I was surprised to find similar capabilities (USB HDD connect, NAS Sharing, even torrent downloads) on some of the WiFi routers.

I'm thinking which functionalities are better suited to which hardware?

Should I go for a fully loaded WiFi router? That'll give me everything I need on the WiFi router layer itself - the media player would then be used purely to decode various file formats and then pass on to the Receiver/ TV.

Or instead should I go in for a fully loaded media player?

Under what circumstances should I look for an HTPC?

I've come to the conclusion that most decent Media Players come with USB connectivity and NAS servers anyways. So even if I go with a WiFi router which gives me these, the media player would have them nevertheless. Therefore it would be a feature overlap. Instead I'll go for a barebones WiFi router and go for a fully loaded media player. Does this make sense?

But coming to WiFi routers, I dont want the basic models. Their range is shitty and I sometimes struggle to stream heavy-duty content. If my line of thought is correct, I need a WiFi router with Dual Band and good range, but without all the other jing-bang features.

Please suggest (on the overall picture).

Here is my take if that means anything to anyone ... . Before I begin let me tell you I was a very regular Media PLayer user, but eventually switched to an HTPC, for various reasons (details in my Sig's HTPC thread). So I have used quite a number of media players like WD TV, WD TV LIve. Asus O play and Play ON HD eventually settling for an HTPC specifically for movies.

I still use Media player (WD TV LIve) for quick access to my other videos and access online services like Netflix, sportify etc. But for movies and TV Series I prefer HTPC, specifically HTPC with XBMC (XBMC being the keyword here )

Your first three questions in itself are your answers, as to why one might need to go for an HTPC.

1. Max AND I MEAN yes MAX support for various file types can only be overcome by an HTPC, but I am not sure why would you, emphasis on such a requirement. A decent media player can play almost all formats give or take. But some times occasionally you do get files that wont play on a media player. Yes even on a, as latest player as WD TV Live (personal experience).
HTPC does not have any such limitation. If at all there exists a file/format/codec that you PC refuses, you just need to find the correct codes and install.

2. Ability to dl additional codes, well already answered. With a media player you don't dl codes you update firmware and you are limited to what the firmware offers.

3. Connecting external optical drive is a very limited feature for media players. I don't think any Media pLyer provides that option out of the box, there might be some hacks that can enable this feature, but not out of the box. HTPC obviously you don't have any such limitation.

AFA Wifi routers are concerned you should always look for a router that does best what its supposed to do, that is in layman terms home networking. Get a decent Gigabit router with wifi n and good range. Dual Bands are good but the limitations is not all of your home networking devices might support the 5Ghz band, or n protocol. so be cautious over that.
Linksys E series router are a good start, I have Linksys E2000

4. Under what circumstances should you go for HTPC :::: Simple if you are fanatic about movies, Video PQ, HD Audio, Media Inter phase, playing full BD ISOs, 3D BD ISOs, Media on Optical disks, Media Metadata, Media Player's UI .....etc etc ....... you can check my HTPC thread for more details for what an HTPC holds. (in my signature)

5. To add I will also answer "Under what circumstances should you go for Media Player ::::: Simple if you do not care about the above, want a super fast boot up, just want to play the video without caring much about video metadata (and to an extent Video PQ as well) or players UI. Portability, ease of configuration, budget, power consumption .....ect etc are few of the benefits of a Media Player.

Hope I made some sense in my explanation .......let me know if you need more details

regards
sammy

EDIT ::: Opps i forgot that I have removed my HTPC thread form my sig .... here is the link ...

http://www.hifivision.com/home-theater-pc-htpc-media-pc/18571-sam9s-htpc-project-powered-xbmc.html

 

[haisaikat]

Very comprehensive post by sam as usual. I still use my old media player in my bedroom TV and the HTPC in living room with other HT components. However some additional limitations with media player is that since hardware components inside the player cannot be upgraded the media player will be limited in cases where simple firmware upgrades will not be enough to sustain upgradeability like a shifting from 1080p playback capability to 4K capability, H265 codec support from existing H264 support. I do agree that such major changes only happens once in a while but it depends on luck when the upgraded contents will be commercialized in the market.

 

[haisaikat]

Sorry missed the point on routers:- yes like sam said, no need going for dual band N routers or even new generation AC routers. These do not work good in homes where there is walls in between and also degrades over distance. I recently tested one AC router that a friend gave me, did not have a AC wireless adapter but had only a 300mbps 5GHz N adapter which connected at max speed of 300 and gave bandwidth of 26 MB/s in close proximity of 10 feet with no obstruction, but over 20 feet in a room with few walls in between it was literally crawling where the standard N150 band shined.

Look at smallnetbuilder.net for router reviews and their range related reviews especially.


One model that I liked for high range but reasonably priced is below
Buffalo Nfiniti Wireless-N High Power Router & Access Point Reviewed - Routing Performance, Wireless Performance, Wireless Security - SmallNetBuilder

You may look at other pages of the review as well.

 

[mowgli80]

Regarding your query about router + NAS, I would suggest you to separate your NAS from your router. Your router will be on 24/7 downloading stuff. Using it as NAS means your disks will be on 24/7 which might reduce the life of the disks. It is also less secure having all your data connected to your internet gateway . A cheap PC tower, even second hand, should make a good NAS as you do not need lots of processing power for a NAS, only disks . Install Windows, preferably Linux if you are conversant with it, and share your drives. IMHO, going for specialised NAS systems is not very advantageous over a general purpose PC.

For HTPC vs MP, there is no one true way and the approach should be based on the end user. If you are not very conversant with computers or if your singular requirement is to play media on single display, a media player is the way to go. If you want sophisticated multi room setup or elaborate UI with lots of features and are willing to tinker with the computer, then HTPC is the way to go. The biggest con with media player is that it places a lot of limitations on you through its firmware. Support for new file/codecs, hardware drivers fixes might take more time than you are willing to wait and sometimes may not come at all. HTPC will generally get those or alternatives much faster compared to media player firmware. That is because the media player company would rather sell you a newer product which supports the new stuff and make money rather than add support to your old product and make no money . For HTPC, XBMC+Windows on a preconfigured mini pc should make a very comfortable setup . I have Zotac Id-11 which is about 3 years old and is still going strong. I will suggest a newer model from them.

 

[mowgli80]

Sorry missed the point on routers:- yes like sam said, no need going for dual band N routers or even new generation AC routers. These do not work good in homes where there is walls in between and also degrades over distance.

That was true for me until this month . Last month's XBMC patches has new caching code which works wonderfully well for me. I streamed Tron Legacy 1080P IMAX print from my NAS to HTPC with 150N Wifi and tested for about 20-25 mins including disk war + bike scenes with no interruptions . The disk war scene has certain sections where bitrate can go upto 35-40 Mb/s and is a benchmark for me. An example why HTPC > MP.

 

[sam9s]

. However some additional limitations with media player is that since hardware components inside the player cannot be upgraded the media player will be limited in cases where simple firmware upgrades will not be enough to sustain upgradeability like a shifting from 1080p playback capability to 4K capability, H265 codec support from existing H264 support. I do agree that such major changes only happens once in a while but it depends on luck when the upgraded contents will be commercialized in the market.

Yes that's an excellent point, I kind of missed, upgradability, with a media player you can not upgrade, firmware upgrades are only software based upgrades, plus more of bug fixes, with time hardware upgrades might also be needed and that is something you will not achieve on a Media player, an HTPC with a good motherboard can be upgraded for years (i still can upgrade my ASUS P5B Delux Mobo, although its more than 7 years old now.

 

[sam9s]

Last month's XBMC patches has new caching code which works wonderfully well for me.

Links plzzz ...

 

[mowgli80]

advancedsettings.xml - XBMC - cachemembuffersize + alwaysforcebuffer

 

[mathan]

Sam,

Can we do a network playback through XBMC to stream media files from any networked PC. If so, which file sharing protocol is best supported?

 

[sam9s]

Sam,

Can we do a network playback through XBMC to stream media files from any networked PC. If so, which file sharing protocol is best supported?

Yes we can, and that is what most of us do.. ..... for protocol, easiest is SMB, but best performance is said to be of NFS. I use NFS to stream from my Synology NAS to XBMC. On my WD TV Live I have to use SMB as thats the only one available.

For HD high bitrate videos NFS is anyhow recommended.

 

[haisaikat]

That was true for me until this month . Last month's XBMC patches has new caching code which works wonderfully well for me. I streamed Tron Legacy 1080P IMAX print from my NAS to HTPC with 150N Wifi and tested for about 20-25 mins including disk war + bike scenes with no interruptions . The disk war scene has certain sections where bitrate can go upto 35-40 Mb/s and is a benchmark for me. An example why HTPC > MP.

How far apart were router (NAS connected ?) and htpc (with wifi adapter?) were placed and were there any walls in between?

Technically speaking 150N connect speed should yield around 18 MB/s of bandwidth but that hardly happens.

Nevertheless considering the fact that movie bitrate is variable, caching can definitely improve (cache more during low bitrate) as long as we do not have lengthy scenes where bitrate stays high for a considerable time but unlike PS3 does XBMC show you the instantaeous bitrate?

 

[sam9s]

does XBMC show you the instantaeous bitrate?

Yes it does ...