DAC as Pre-Amp?

[rohitmusic]

Hello Friends,
I have a query regarding the sterio system chain. Wanting to understand.

[Source] -> [DAC] -> [Preamp] -> [Poweramp] -> [Speakers]


Let us say we have above chain in the sterio setup then what are the options that can be put into the second and third boxes?

Options:
1. Use dedicated DAC and dedicate Preamp
2. DACs that can be used as Preamp
3. Preamp having DAC (?)
4. Integrated amp as Preamp (No DAC here?)

How do the above options compare and WHY?

Would like more information on 2nd option.

Also, which are good DAC+Preamp options?
Any preamps/integrateds having a DAC in it, any options here?

Thanks in advance!
Rgds

 

[anm]

Viren @ lyrita can do it for you. A dac+pre+phono in a single box is also possible. I have it but a different DAC that I got fitted in the chasis - different from what Viren offered.

 

[Kittu]

Another thread

http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/24990-dedicated-pre-amplifer-vs-preamp-mode-dac.html

 

[rohitmusic]

For fact I know some DACs that can be used as a preamp like those of Maverick Audio D1 and Beresford caimen are some I have heard of.

(P.S: Budget guideline [15-20]k range)

 

[doors666]

read the specs, they will tell you whether you need a preamp or not. If you have digital and analog sources, you need preamp, else you can skip it.

 

[Santy]

DAC with preamp is not a good replacement for dedicated preamp. Its ok for head phones.

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Tapatalk

 

[anm]

with lyrita it is opposite. It is a preamp first, and the dac is just another source, which shares the same chasis. So it is a separate tube pre+dac with a tube output stage.

 

[rohitmusic]

I have another query:

How much of the sound signature depends on the
[DAC] -> [Preamp] -> [Poweramp]

Which of these components are most responsible for coloring the sound like warm/bright, the sound-stage, instrument separation, etc.

---- Foot Note ----
Since I am on limited buget so may not be able to get seperates for [DAC] and [Preamp] section immediately, maybe later down the line. I may have most of my collection as FLAC or high bitrate mp3s

 

[rohitmusic]

with lyrita it is opposite. It is a preamp first, and the dac is just another source, which shares the same chasis. So it is a separate tube pre+dac with a tube output stage.

This is interesting. As I have brighter speakers (Paradigm monitors) so a warmer tube sound should go well here. (May also suite my music preference for melodious music )
I have heard rave reviews of DACs like Beresford caiman, how do the onboard DACs like in question compare here.

 

[anm]

One problem with buying two devices is that the manufacturer, dealer, retailer all have expenses and profit expectations. So you end up paying much more for buying two separate items.

 

[rohitmusic]

One problem with buying two devices is that the manufacturer, dealer, retailer all have expenses and profit expectations. So you end up paying much more for buying two separate items.

+1 sounds logical

 

[rohitmusic]

Can integrated be used as a preamp? Would that affect sonique performance greatly?

 

[alphacentury100]

This is very confusing. Can't a preamp do digital to analog conversion? Do we need a DAC even when we use a preamp like marantz av7005 or emotiva xmc1?

 

[doors666]

This is very confusing. Can't a preamp do digital to analog conversion? Do we need a DAC even when we use a preamp like marantz av7005 or emotiva xmc1?

if a preamp can do digital to analog conversion, then it has a dac inside it.
Dont get confused with the cabinet housing these components. You can put everything inside a cd player cabinet, then will you say that my cd player does the amplification too.

 

[rohitmusic]

Viren @ lyrita can do it for you. A dac+pre+phono in a single box is also possible. I have it but a different DAC that I got fitted in the chasis - different from what Viren offered.

On a second closer read...
So you have put your separate custom selected DAC instead of the "standard" DAC provided by Lyrita. And lyrita did that fitting for you. Am I getting you right?
More info should be helpful,
Thanks!

 

[Flash]

Let us say we have above chain in the sterio setup then what are the options that can be put into the second and third boxes?

Options:
1. Use dedicated DAC and dedicate Preamp
2. DACs that can be used as Preamp
3. Preamp having DAC (?)
4. Integrated amp as Preamp (No DAC here?)

How do the above options compare and WHY?

Would like more information on 2nd option.

My take one this

1. Yes you can use a dedicated DAC as a preamp, for that matter you can also use a sound card on your PC as a preamp - As Santy mentioned earlier it would be ok to use the gain controls for a headphone not a full blown HIFI setup. Most DAC's that have a low voltage gain on he preamp section 1v thereabouts.
when using a headset, it is prefect, however when using as a Preamp connected to a Power amp. the voltage gain is too low and as you start turning up the volume, you are basically introducing noise. Yes the noise introduced because of the low voltage would not cause a major audible degradation. However when compered to a standalone Preamp. the difference would be evident.
However there are DAC's that do a pretty commendable job as a preamp.

However for the interim period you can get away using a DAC as a preamp

2. Preamp and DAC in the chain.

IMO is perfect.for reasons mentioned above however a costlier proposition since there are more components in the chain.
A DAC does one job in this case and i.e convert the digital signal from your PC / Source and convert it to analogue
The Preamp also does a single job. gain control, input selection etc.
So shorter signal path with less signal degradation

3. Preamp having DAC as good as point one. but the reverse There the Digital to analogue conversion suffers ---- unless you go high end..

4. Ah the good ol Integrated as a Preamp.
yes it can be used and would be better than using a DAC as a preamp and would sound pretty close to how a dedicated preamp sounds ...
This is keeping variables constant - 20k preamp vs 35k Stereo Integrated or AVR.

However you still need something to do your DAC conversion. so either you have a CD transport or a decent Sound card like the ESI Jul@ , ASUS etc

At the end of the Day its all about synergy

A preamp adds a sound signature, so does a DAC get synergy wrong and its pointless having separate components.

Cheers

 

[anm]

On a second closer read...
So you have put your separate custom selected DAC instead of the "standard" DAC provided by Lyrita. And lyrita did that fitting for you. Am I getting you right?
More info should be helpful,
Thanks!

you got it right. Viren is a gentleman, and he makes his stuff himself by hand, and not by machines.

 

[anm]

Can integrated be used as a preamp? Would that affect sonique performance greatly?

Well there are several products that do exactly what you are saying, and even more.
HK 3490/ 3390 are stereo receivers with digital inputs - also have integrated FM.

NAD has come out with 2 new integrated (just yesterday I think) that take digital inputs. Even older NAD integrated amps which have modular construction can be fitted with a DAC module.

 

[rohitmusic]

Viren is a gentleman, and he makes his stuff himself by hand, and not by machines.

I have great appreciation for craftsmanship! Especially in this age of assembly lines. This way every item is unique and not just a clone!
I like that!

 

[vktarun]

if a preamp can do digital to analog conversion, then it has a dac inside it.
Dont get confused with the cabinet housing these components. You can put everything inside a cd player cabinet, then will you say that my cd player does the amplification too.

Interesting !!:lol: