DAC - To buy or to not buy(Confused)

[iaudio]

I think Venkat is using an Arcam Rdac.

 

[venkatcr]

I think Venkat is using an Arcam Rdac.

Yup, but on a temporary basis. I have my eyes on the Benchmark DAC1, or at least the XDA-1 from Emotiva. They have reduced the price on that now.

Cheers

 

[no1lives4ever]

Yup, but on a temporary basis. I have my eyes on the Benchmark DAC1, or at least the XDA-1 from Emotiva. They have reduced the price on that now.

Cheers

Can you give me some more details on how you conducted the test where you used the same source using digital output and using the DAC to hear audible differences when played back on the Onkyo 875 AVR?

Things like source used, DAC used, how they were connected, what modes were used on the AVR would be very helpful here.

-- no1lives4ever

 

[rana_kirti]

Hi Rana,
As the computer being your main source you would need even better DAC if you going for hi-end speakers and amp. May be look for a hi-end DAC with a pre-amp and remote control. I can suggest you Audiolab MDAC which is a DAC with a preamp (digital inputs only DAC is same as Audiolab 8200CD/8200CDQ) which will be released in a month or two.

I connect only laptop to the DAC though connecting the CD-P increases the performance to some extent. When I connect multiple sources like the CD-P and laptop to DAC I end up using only one analog input out of 7 inputs on the integrated amp and I had to walk to the DAC always to switch between the sources.
Its a pain to miss the remote functionality connecting all the digital sources to DAC and making 6 out of 7 analog inputs redundant on the amp.

Having only digital sources now I feel I paid more unnecessarily for the redundant 6 analog inputs on the integrated amp and had to compromise on a DAC which don't have remote facility. Also I ended up having two budget level DAC's one in the CD-P and external DAC.:sad:

On my next upgrade my requirement is I don't want to end up having two budget DAC's and will try to avoid going for an integrated amp which is emphasized on analog inputs.

I'm looking at a CD-P with a DAC and a Pre-amp like the Audiolab 8200CDQ or a DAC with a pre-amp like the Audiolab 8200DQ. In the later case I can buy discontinued line CD-P's cheap at richer sounds and use it as a transport. Also I can go for a power amp which will be of a better quality and more powerful than an integrated amp at the same price.
Also I will save few power chords and interconnects and have the luxury of a remote :lol:

ravi,

i feel you have given me a very solid advice.... So i'll look out for the release of the Audiolab Preamp+Dac device. i guess it's a month away from release. I wonder when the reviews will be out on it.... hopefully soon enough....

1. So the Audiolab 8200DQ is a Preamp+DAC.

2. What is the Audiolab MDAC then ?

3. Also what are some other recommended Preamp+Dac models/brands ?

Thanks

 

[ravi_d]

1. So the Audiolab 8200DQ is a Preamp+DAC.

Yes, It's the same as Audiolab 8200CDQ CD-Player without the CD drive. It is available for 700 in UK.

2. What is the Audiolab MDAC then ?

It's same as 8200DQ but with out analog inputs. The casing is smaller to make it convenient for using with a desktop. Here are some details of MDAC which is due for release shortly for 400.

3. Also what are some other recommended Preamp+Dac models/brands ?

I can think of Benchmark DAC1 or Emotiva XDA-1 as mentioned by venkatcr in post #222. I have not auditioned these two DAC's. Make sure the DAC you buy has asynchronous USB input.

 

[rana_kirti]

so i buy a DAC+Pre Combo device and then add a 2 channel Power Amplifier of my choice.

 

[venkatcr]

Things like source used, DAC used, how they were connected, what modes were used on the AVR would be very helpful here.

I have two sources - one is a Oppo 983 that I use as a CD Player and a PC Audio system using a Asus Xonar STX card.

In both cases I have tried the following combinations:

1. Analogue out from the sources to the Front L&R analogue in of the Onkyo.
2. Digital out through Coaxial to the digital in of the Onkyo.
3. Digital out to the rDAC, and analogue out from the rDAC to the Onkyo.

In all cases, the Onkyo was always in Pure Direct mode.

The 3rd method sounded the best to me.

Cheers

 

[ravi_d]

so i buy a DAC+Pre Combo device and then add a 2 channel Power Amplifier of my choice.

Hi Rana,
Yes, That's a wise choice if you want to use computer as a source.

The DAC is the important piece of equipment in a hi-fi set-up for those who have more digital sources. The possibility of connecting more and more digital sources to a DAC may sound incredible but it's not fun unless you have a remote to select between the inputs.
Also I don't want one remote for selecting between digital inputs on the DAC and another second remote for volume control and analog inputs on the integrated amp (the third remote is already there for the CD transport). :lol:
And more over you never use those 6 or 7 analog inputs on the integrated amp. A maximum of 3 analog inputs and 3 or more digital inputs with an async usb in a hi-fi set-up are more than sufficient.
In other words my intention is to have one mid level DAC rather than having two budget level DAC's (one is standalone DAC and other in the dedicated CD-player) and the possibility of connecting one or two analog sources later.

You have a computer as a source and all your collection on a hard drive. So you want a decent DAC with the possibility of connecting more digital sources in future. You don't want the possibility of adding multiple analog sources which you may never need and don't want to pay for that. So a DAC with an on board pre-amp you can go for a mid level power amp for the same price as a budget level integrated amp. If you have any intention of buying a TT or a cassette deck in future then go with a DAC with a pre-amp with few analog inputs or you can go with a DAC with a pre amp (digital inputs only). I'm thinking about the 8200DQ as my next upgrade.

The Audiolab 8200DQ (DAC with pre-amp) at 700 sounds incredible to me with those features. The discrete Class A headphone amp I can think is a 100 or more saving as I don't need to buy an external headphone amp for my Grados. The remote facility and its capability to control basic features of the media player on laptop/computer and the discrete Class A balanced output stage and a hi-end DAC I think it makes sense for that money rather than spending 500 on a standalone DAC and a CD-P and still having it called a budget set-up and another 100/150 for a headphone amp.

 

[no1lives4ever]

I have two sources - one is a Oppo 983 that I use as a CD Player and a PC Audio system using a Asus Xonar STX card.

In both cases I have tried the following combinations:

1. Analogue out from the sources to the Front L&R analogue in of the Onkyo.
2. Digital out through Coaxial to the digital in of the Onkyo.
3. Digital out to the rDAC, and analogue out from the rDAC to the Onkyo.

In all cases, the Onkyo was always in Pure Direct mode.

The 3rd method sounded the best to me.

Cheers

The Onkyo 875 in Pure Direct mode used with a analog input should bypass the A2D->DSP Processing->D2A stage completely. When the digital source is used with Pure Direct mode, it would go through the Onkyo's output DAC but without any processing.

When comparing the 2nd and 3rd methods above, the output DAC of the Onkyo was compared to the rDAC, given that rest everything in the chain was same. And the output of the rDAC sounded better than the Onkyo's output DAC. I wonder what the case would be if the receiver is not in pure direct mode.

Overall, if one is using a AVR to play one's music, I suppose one still would need to audition a DAC with one's AVR to know exactly how it behaves. And given that AVRs already come with decent quality output DACs, I would also compare a AVR upgrade when looking at a DAC to see if a AVR upgrade gives similar sound quality differences. I would tend to go with a AVR upgrade as that would also improve the sound quality on movies and surround encoded music, while the external DAC would only work with music.

I would suggest those looking at getting an external DAC for use with an AVR to also audition their AVR's output DACs by feeding a digital signal to the AVR and using it in Pure Direct Mode. For some of us, this might be a good enough quality bump. I find the quality of my AVR's output DAC to be good enough for my regular music listening.

Now if one wants to use the AVR in a non Pure Direct mode, then the listening test becomes even more critical as the external DAC might sound worse than using a direct digital output to the AVR.

-- no1lives4ever

 

[ravi_d]

I can think of Benchmark DAC1 or Emotiva XDA-1 as mentioned by venkatcr in post #222. I have not auditioned these two DAC's. Make sure the DAC you buy has asynchronous USB input.

Hi Rana,
Add NuForce HDP DAC to the list. It's a DAC with a pre-amp and headphone amp.

The Sweedish XTZ brand who has the similar marketing strategy as American Emotiva in cutting down the middle men between the manufacturer and customer has an integrated amp with built in DAC. The XTZ - Class A 100 D3 integrated amp has the ability to operate in Class A (up to 50 W/ch) and Class AB (up to 110 W/ch) modes uses Analog Devices AD1955 DAC in its built in DAC which is same chip used in Emotiva XDA-1 DAC.

 

[abhi_jollyguy]

So Finally after all this long time I have ordered a DAC which is Musical Fidelity V-DAC and interconnects - True Colour Industries Coral and Chord Company Crimson Plus.hyeah:

Now waiting for these to get delivered

 

[hydra]

Congrats on your purchase, Abhi! That's a really nice DAC. Very nice cables too!

Do update with listening impressions when you get delivery.

 

[venkatcr]

So Finally after all this long time I have ordered a DAC which is Musical Fidelity V-DAC and interconnects - True Colors Industries Coral and Chord Company Crimson Plus.hyeah:

So, you are not yet jolly till you get the goods, eh?

Cheers

 

[vasishta.sushant]

Even I was contemplating buying the vdac but finally gave in to the Arcam rDAC. Waiting for the shipment to arrive. It has already been 6 days

 

[rana_kirti]

Today is a glorious day. Congratulations Abhi. Do report back with your findings. I'm sure it will be "Worth" it.

 

[abhi_jollyguy]

Congrats on your purchase, Abhi! That's a really nice DAC. Very nice cables too!

Do update with listening impressions when you get delivery.

Thanks Hydra, will surely give my impressions using this DAC in a chain . You have always been very helpful to me. Thanks again

 

[abhi_jollyguy]

So, you are not yet jolly till you get the goods, eh?

Cheers

hehe I am already a jollyguy :lol:

Thank You.

 

[abhi_jollyguy]

Even I was contemplating buying the vdac but finally gave in to the Arcam rDAC. Waiting for the shipment to arrive. It has already been 6 days

Congratulations Vasishta.sushant. Plz post ur impressions using Arcam rDAC in a chain.

 

[abhi_jollyguy]

Today is a glorious day. Congratulations Abhi. Do report back with your findings. I'm sure it will be "Worth" it.

Thank you Rana_kirti. I will sure post my impressions and findings using this DAC in a chain.

 

[anm]

vasishtha and abhi - where did you get them from and for how much?